What made the Chinese form of Communism work while Russia'a failed?

[rturner76]

I think it's because China allows a certain level of private enterprise. Although the government ultimately owns everything, they allow for people to pass their government owned lease to their children. Businesses while ultimately controlled and regulated by the government are given leeway for invention and personal entrepreneurship while cashing in on the profits from the business there seems to be more incentive to start a business. I believe in the Russian Communist model, the government owned and ran every aspect of life on all levels making room for mor corruption and a culture of doing the bare minimum to keep your job rather than work as hard as you can to grow your business.

What do you think?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

What do you think?

I don't think communism "works" in China currently. It may have, for a time, but doesn't seem to be currently.

 

[friend of]

China's 9am - 9pm 6 days a week work schedule is going to burn the population out entirely.

 

[rturner76]

I don't think communism "works" in China currently. It may have, for a time, but doesn't seem to be currently.

I was under the impression that China has one of the most robust economies on the globe but of course I could be under the wrong impression considering government propaganda. I was under the impression that billions of dollars have been injected into their economy from electronics sales to North America and Europe.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I was under the impression that China has one of the most robust economies on the globe but of course I could be under the wrong impression considering propaganda.

Don't think the people in the rural part of China would say that...

 

[rturner76]

China's 9am - 9pm 6 days a week work schedule is going to burn the population out entirely.

I wasn't aware of that requirement. I thought there was a certain level of individual entrepreneurship i the economy which would allow business managers to work as they see fit in terms of building a business. Of course there is always the possiblity that I have been informed by government propaganda rather than reality.

 

[rturner76]

Don't think the people in the rural part of China would say that...

I believe that. I know that under chairman Mao millions died due to starvation. I admit that I am NOT an expert on the subject of the Chinese economy. I was just wondering how their form of government is still in tact while Russia's Communist system completely collapsed/failed.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Of course there is always the possiblity that I have been informed by government propaganda rather than reality.

There is tons of that.

 

[rturner76]

There is tons of that.

Quick question......Do you think more Chinese propaganda comes from the Chinese government or the United States government?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Quick question......Do you think more Chinese propaganda comes from the Chinese government or the United States government?

I really don't know TBH. There is a lot of it going on all over the place. Journalism in America today is a joke and there is almost always a spin from the major news sources. (Check out 1440 for a news source reporting just the facts).

So I could not tell you who between the USA and China has more propaganda. What I can say is that the USA took its cues about lockdowns straight from the Chinese playbook.

China has a bigger economy than the US by a lot, but it also has a lot more people.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't think communism "works" in China currently. It may have, for a time, but doesn't seem to be currently.

Not sure if it ever did...

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Not sure if it ever did...

Fair enough, but the prior emperor did put China on the map and gave China the economy it now has.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Fair enough, but the prior emperor did put China on the map and gave China the economy it now has.

Who are you referring to ?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Who are you referring to ?

China was less communist and in a better place economically before Xing Ping took office as far as I am aware. That is why they control a major part of imports and exports.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

The Chinese began experimenting with regions that had some market oriented reforms back in the 1980s called Special Economic Zones. So China is a bit of a hybrid.

https://www.worldbank.org/content/dam/Worldbank/Event/Africa/Investing%20in%20Africa%20Forum/2015/investing-in-africa-forum-chinas-special-economic-zone.pdf

 

[Gene2memE]

China's not really Communist, at least not in Marx-Leninist terms. China hasn't really been 'Communist' since the reforms that started in the mid 1970s. Even under Mao at the height of the Communist Revolution, there were still elements of free market capitalism in play in various parts of the economy.

The Chinese model is called 'market socialism' or 'socialism with a Chinese flavour', but its more like state-directed capitalism.

It's essentially a combination of stated goals and state-led initiatives, which are directed by a central plan that gets revised fairly frequently (small annual updates, big updates every 2 1/2 and 5 years). The achievement of these targets is generally focused through an 'industrial champion' or a number of similar enterprises. Under this, there is a form limited free market competition, where companies can bid for work and partner up with foreign business entities to bring in technology or resources. However, pricing and such is still heavily regulated.

 

[rturner76]

China's not really Communist, at least not in Marx-Leninist terms.

Was it more Marx/Leninist under Chairman Mao? From my understanding, Mao's policies were responsible for vast numbers of deaths, with estimates ranging from 40 to 80 million victims due to starvation, persecution, prison labor, and mass executions, and his government was characterized as totalitarian.

I saw a piece on China that showed how the streets that in the past were filled with bicycles are now filled with new cars. It seems that wouldn't be happining under a total Marxist regime so I get what you mean.

 

[Dosblade]

Saying in China it works.. yeah clearly does not

 

[rturner76]

Saying in China it works.. yeah clearly does not

So China does NOT have a top ranked economy on the world stage? Do you mean it doesn't work in terms of lack of personal freedom, work camps, and the like?

 

[mindlight]

I think it's because China allows a certain level of private enterprise. Although the government ultimately owns everything, they allow for people to pass their government owned lease to their children. Businesses while ultimately controlled and regulated by the government are given leeway for invention and personal entrepreneurship while cashing in on the profits from the business there seems to be more incentive to start a business. I believe in the Russian Communist model, the government owned and ran every aspect of life on all levels making room for mor corruption and a culture of doing the bare minimum to keep your job rather than work as hard as you can to grow your business.

What do you think?

Soviet Communism failed because Marxism was a rubbish foundation for an economy and because its persecution of Christians undermined its moral legitimacy. In the end no body believed in Communism and the economy did not grow for the last two decades of the USSR's existence.

Chinese communism failed miserably under Mao to deal with poverty because his main focus was uniting a fragmented country. Now with that unity and the allowance for free enterprise on the Hong Kong model, China is returning to its natural weight in the global marketplace. The growth rate has fallen under Xi Jinping in part because he is reverting to an ideological stance in order to keep the country together under his own personal leadership. Empowered billionaires or local warlords will not be allowed to break the unity of the country.