What a relief

[USincognito]

Oops. That climate science isn't quite as settled...

hotair.com

Why would we be interested in a histrionic opinion piece published on a political website?

 

[USincognito]

If the US is worried about CO2 emissions, it should probably stop blowing up pipelines and releasing record-levels of CO2 into the atmosphere

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/04/1126562195/the-nord-stream-pipelines-have-stopped-leaking-but-the-methane-emitted-broke-rec

There's zero evidence that the U.S. blew it up. Stop spreading Russian disinformation.

 

[USincognito]

The current religion of climate change

Doesn't exist.

is about controlling the masses and relieving people of their money.

Tin foil hattery won't make the evidence go away.

Man will not destroy the planet, at least those that believe scripture know that will not happen.

No one is claiming humans going to destroy the earth.

 

[USincognito]

Why is it so hard to see the power and money behind this fear fest?

Tell me about it. All those climatologists driving to work in their Champagne powered Ferraris is disgusting!

 

[USincognito]

.

 

[USincognito]

For the umpteenth time I have not said it was benign, I have said it has been happening throughout history without the aid of mankind.

And humans died before the invention of gunpowder. There being natural causes for things does not preclude there being human causes.
The thing found those who deny the A in AGW is that scientists aren't stupid. They know that there are natural causes of climate change. They also know we're not experiencing any of those natural causes at this time. Therefore the logical conclusion is that it's human activity and that's what the evidence shows.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/how-do-we-know-build-carbon-dioxide-atmosphere-caused-humans

In addition, only fossil fuels are consistent with the isotopic fingerprint of the carbon in today’s atmosphere. Different kinds of carbon-containing material have different relative amounts of “light” carbon-12, “heavy” carbon-13, and radioactive carbon-14. Plant matter is enriched in carbon-12, because its lighter weight is more readily used by plants during photosynthesis. Volcanic emissions are enriched in carbon-13. The ratio of carbon-13 to carbon-12 in the atmosphere and the ocean are roughly the same. Since carbon-14 is radioactive, it decays predictably over time. Young organic matter has more carbon-14 than older organic matter, and fossil fuels have no measurable carbon-14 at all.​

 

[USincognito]

Maybe you should do your own work , see post #300

Why would I take seriously a highly editorialized piece from Fox that quotes someone from the Competitive Enterprise Institute? I'd rather look at the actual regulations being proposed and hear from manufacturers themselves.

 

[Merrill]

There's zero evidence that the U.S. blew it up. Stop spreading Russian disinformation.

Either the US destroyed the pipeline, or Ukraine did (probably with the help of the US)

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now

seymourhersh.substack.com

Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say (Published 2023)

New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe.

www.nytimes.com

I can't believe people can be so clueless as to think Russia blew up its own pipeline, when that makes zero logical sense, and there is no proof of it. Biden said he was going to take out the pipeline, and had motivation to do it. Ukraine also had motivation to do it.

so we know who is to blame for this environmental catastrophe

 

[Estrid]

Either the US destroyed the pipeline, or Ukraine did (probably with the help of the US)

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now

seymourhersh.substack.com

Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say (Published 2023)

New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe.

www.nytimes.com

I can't believe people can be so clueless as to think Russia blew up its own pipeline, when that makes zero logical sense, and there is no proof of it. Biden said he was going to take out the pipeline, and had motivation to do it. Ukraine also had motivation to do it.

so we know who is to blame for this environmental catastrophe

You sure you know who is
clueless?

 

[USincognito]

Either the US destroyed the pipeline, or Ukraine did (probably with the help of the US)

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now

seymourhersh.substack.com

Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say (Published 2023)

New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe.

www.nytimes.com

I can't believe people can be so clueless as to think Russia blew up its own pipeline, when that makes zero logical sense, and there is no proof of it. Biden said he was going to take out the pipeline, and had motivation to do it. Ukraine also had motivation to do it.

so we know who is to blame for this environmental catastrophe

Yeah, Russia would NEVER false flag an "attack" on a liability which is what Nordstream 1 became when the Europeans stopped buying gas and Vlad didn't have a way to shut it down when it was full of gas. Sure, I'M the clueless one.

 

[Merrill]

Yeah, Russia would NEVER false flag an "attack" on a liability which is what Nordstream 1 became when the Europeans stopped buying gas and Vlad didn't have a way to shut it down when it was full of gas. Sure, I'M the clueless one.

and for what end would Putin stage a false flag, blow up his own pipeline? How does that make any sense at all?

to gain international sympathy? He has none
to obtain a pretense for attacking Ukraine? He has already attacked that country
to cut off Germany and other nations from this natural gas? It wasn't even in full operation yet, and sanctions have already cut off a lot of his oil and gas

the idea Russia blew up its own pipeline is ridiculous. No one outside of US neoliberal MSM believes that nonsense

 

[driewerf]

For the umpteenth time I have not said it was benign, I have said it has been happening throughout history without the aid of mankind.

So what? All climate scientists know that the climate has oscillated in the past. They even gave this a fancy name: Milankovic cycles. The average climate scientists knows something - some tiny little bit - about past climates. That's quite the essence of their job.

But again, so what? Does the fact that previous climate oscillations were not human caused excludes that the current global warming is somehow human caused? This type of argument is as irrelevant as claiming that Julian can't be murdered, just because George died a natural death.

 

[driewerf]

Your right that the rock we call Earth will be here long after we make it uninhabitable for human beings and other living creatures.

Nah, I expect cockroaches to do fine.

 

[Frank Robert]

So what? All climate scientists know that the climate has oscillated in the past.

Yes, there has been natural oscillations in the past. However, the industrial revolution beginning circa1880, took over from the natural oscillations of the past. Over the past half-century fossil fuel use is up around eight-fold since 1950, and roughly doubling since 1980.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, there has been natural oscillations in the past. However, the industrial revolution beginning circa1880, took over from the natural oscillations of the past.

This is a good point.

If we were to live back then, and knowing what we know now, what should we have done to prevent this?

Rally against industrialization? bomb the factories? push for anti-industrialization laws? what EXACTLY?

Or, as I suspect, was this "industrial revolution" a necessary evil?

 

[Hans Blaster]

This is a good point.

If we were to live back then, and knowing what we know now, what should we have done to prevent this?

Rally against industrialization? bomb the factories? push for anti-industrialization laws? what EXACTLY?

Or, as I suspect, was this "industrial revolution" a necessary evil?

We had little knowledge of the "greenhouse" effect in the early days of the industrial revolution, but that's not much of a problem because most of the excess CO2 emissions have happened since WWII.

From that point, more nuclear power and sustainment of it during that period plus the use of electric rather than gas appliances in the home (dryers, water heaters, and stoves) would have been a nice start.

But things were even more accessible than that since the majority of the post-WWII emissions come in the last 35 years when we had solid evidence that it was starting to happen. There were solutions offered 30 years ago and rather then implement them we turned Algore into a political meme and allowed the fossil fuel lobbyists to convince large swathes of the population that "global warming is a hoax" perpetuated to take away your freedoms. We could have been implementing better fuel efficiency standards, but instead all of the efforts of the car companies to make more efficient engines went into powering SUVs and pick-up trucks that were exempt from the fuel standards. We could have built wind farms, but instead we got fracking replacing some one greenhouse gas (CO2) with another (leaked methane). We could have started to build more compact neighborhoods with less need to travel and modest amounts of transit, but nope, we didn't.


These are the things we could have been doing for 20+ years and didn't. We knew what was coming and we failed to take action.

 

[AV1611VET]

We had little knowledge of the "greenhouse" effect ...

I stopped right here.

I made it clear that you are living back then, BUT KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW NOW.

If you don't want to answer my good question, fine.

But I'm not going to read 12" of text for a simple question I asked.

Especially when I put "exactly" in all capitals.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I stopped right here.

I made it clear that you are living back then, BUT KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW NOW.

If you don't want to answer my good question, fine.

But I'm not going to read 12" of text for a simple question I asked.

Especially when I put "exactly" in all capitals.

I'm not interested in fantasy hypotheticals or how large you set your font.

What matters is what we *did* know and what we *failed* to do.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not interested in fantasy hypotheticals or how large you set your font.

What you call "fantasy hypotheticals," I like to call "good questions."

What matters is what we *did* know and what we *failed* to do.

Always after the fact though, isn't it?

After someone's been blown to bits, disfigured, or major property damage has occurred.

But then, it's always some engineer's fault, isn't it?

 

[Hans Blaster]

What you call "fantasy hypotheticals," I like to call "good questions."

It's not a good question. If we "knew then what we know now" we'd have also by implication known how to run a nuclear reactor, built a photovoltaic cell, and construct a heat pump. It's just a fantasy.

Always after the fact though, isn't it?

After someone's been blown to bits, disfigured, or major property damage has occurred.

But then, it's always some engineer's fault, isn't it?

When it is the engineer's fault then it is. The failure to respond appropriately for the last 35 years to the clear signal of pending doom from excess CO2 emissions is not on the engineers. It is on the politicians, the lobbyists, the businessmen, the media, and the rest of us.

It wasn't the engineers that decided to keep light trucks (SUVs) outside the CAFE standards.