Voddie Baucham sermon - "Why Keep the Sabbath Holy?"

[BobRyan]

Pastor Baucham got his M.Div from Southern Baptist Theological seminary.

"In March 2022, Baucham confirmed that he had been asked to accept a nomination for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, but noted that as an overseas missionary, he was not sure if he was eligible"

Interesting details brought out by Bauchman in this short sermon

Do you agree?

I think this is a fair summary of his points there - but if you find that I missed some I will add them here in a update

1. The only logical reason given for the 7 day week in the Bible - is the 7 days of creation in Gen 2:1-3
2. God's Law (specifically speaking of the TEN in this sermon) is a reflection of His character
3. The moral law of TEN - existed before Sinai
4. The Sabbath is in Gen 2 and is therefore - given before Sinai
5. Obeying God's Word is more about glorifying God than the more me-centered "what I can get out of it"

From what I saw of it - his statements are in agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19 (even as updated by C.H. Spurgeon).
Bauchman says he affirms the Baptist Confession of Faith.

 

[Jonaitis]

Pastor Baucham got his M.Div from Southern Baptist Theological seminary.

"In March 2022, Baucham confirmed that he had been asked to accept a nomination for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, but noted that as an overseas missionary, he was not sure if he was eligible"

Interesting details brought out by Bauchman in this short sermon

Do you agree?

I think this is a fair summary of his points there - but if you find that I missed some I will add them here in a update

1. The only logical reason given for the 7 day week in the Bible - is the 7 days of creation in Gen 2:1-3
2. God's Law (specifically speaking of the TEN in this sermon) is a reflection of His character
3. The moral law of TEN - existed before Sinai
4. The Sabbath is in Gen 2 and is therefore - given before Sinai
5. Obeying God's Word is more about glorifying God than the more me-centered "what I can get out of it"

From what I saw of it - his statements are in agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19 (even as updated by C.H. Spurgeon).
Bauchman says he affirms the Baptist Confession of Faith.

I use to support the 2LBC on the Sabbath, but then I realized that this, too, cannot be biblically supported. I have fought with this for years, agreed with it for years, then finally rejected for years. Voddie is a great guy, father, preacher, professor, etc, but I am afraid that many confessionally Reformed Christians tend to agree with this doctrine simply because you are seen out of touch with the Reformed tradition as a whole if you don't. Sure, covenant theology and the doctrines of grace are biblical, okay, but that doesn't mean the WHOLE system is correct. Even Calvin believed in infant baptism, which Baptists, like Voddie here, know is biblically wrong. While I do not know Voddie's heart on the matter, I think that we must recognize the flaws of the confession. This is dangerous to say, well, at least in my circle. The confession is a historic document of the summary of Christian truth, and even though we affirm that Scripture alone is the authority, I fear that many in secret believe the confession is an inspired document too. I don't mean to say this for all my Reformed brothers, but I have to wonder if we have stopped reforming since 1689? The confession also states that the Pope is the Antichrist. Who actually believes this in this day and age? Obviously, whoever wrote our confession, likely Nehemiah Coxe and Benjamin Keach, didn't want disharmony with our Presbyterian brothers. However, if one studies the Westminster Confession, they will learn the the Scripture proofs therein were added after the confession was written, and quickly.

Sorry about my rant, but I can't agree fully with Voddie. I can agree that the moral equity of the fourth commandment is that we should set time apart for God in our private lives. Period.

 

[BobRyan]

The confession is a historic document of the summary of Christian truth, and even though we affirm that Scripture alone is the authority, I fear that many in secret believe the confession is an inspired document too. I don't mean to say this for all my Reformed brothers, but I have to wonder if we have stopped reforming since 1689?

The video does not say "The Ten Commandments are valid because the Baptist Confession of Faith says they are" -- I think we can agree on that and I am not Baptist so I am not posting this arguing "if the BCoF says it - it must be true". Rather I am pointing to the line by line positions listed in the OP.

The confession also states that the Pope is the Antichrist.

Agreed it does say that - as almost all Protestant reformers also stated.

Who actually believes this in this day and age?

ok so millions do still believe that - but the evidence for it is not how may millions believe it.

I can agree that the moral equity of the fourth commandment is that we should set time apart for God in our private lives. Period.

So you oppose it (along with all the TEN)? - or simply claim it exists but extremely edited/watered down?

 

[Jonaitis]

The video does not say "The Ten Commandments are valid because the Baptist Confession of Faith says they are" -- I think we can agree on that and I am not Baptist so I am not posting this arguing "if the BCoF says it - it must be true". Rather I am pointing to the line by line positions listed in the OP.

I know, sorry.

Agreed it does say that - as almost all Protestant reformers also stated.

Yes, and your point?

ok so millions do still believe that - but the evidence for it is not how may millions believe it.

I speak for my Reformed brothers.

So you oppose it P(along with all the TEN)? - or simply claim it exists but extremely edited/watered down?

I hold that the New Testament document interprets the Old, not the other way around. This is the historic Baptist position, the other is the Presbyterian (and probably Catholic, which I wouldn't be surprised) position.

 

[BobRyan]

I can agree that the moral equity of the fourth commandment is that we should set time apart for God in our private lives. Period.

So you oppose it (along with all the TEN)? - or simply claim it exists but extremely edited/watered down?

I hold that the New Testament document interprets the Old, not the other way around.

I don't think Baucham argues that the OT "interprets the NT" and so far I do not either.

But exegesis demands that we admit that the OT informed the views and definitions of the NT writers and readers.

So it is no wonder that Heb 8 quotes the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 verbatim rather than editing it. That covenant claims that the Law knows to Jeremiah and his readers is the one written on the heart - and the BCoF admits to that same point.

Jonaitis
I speak for my Reformed brothers.

Baucham claims to be one of those and I think he considers the BCoF to be in line with reformed teaching.

 

[Bob S]

What was the major problem that kept Gentiles and Israelites, Jews, apart to the point of hatred? Paul was blessed with the answer and expressed this in Eph 2:
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Voddie, like many Christians, has it appears, has little knowledge of new covenant revelations like the above scripture. Paul continuedly preached that no one is now under the old covenant laws which of course would include the ten commandments. In Gal 3 Paul called the Galatians fools for listening to the Jews who were teaching them to keep the laws of the old covenant. Voddie didn't mention any of New Testament scripture that tells us we are not under the laws of the old covenant which includes the Sabbath. His flowery speech modified the Genesis account of the Seventh-day as well as using the Ex20:7 account while ignoring the Duet 5:4 which tells us Israel's ancestors didn't have the Law and then in verse 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Who is you? It was Israel and no one else.

 

[BobRyan]

What was the major problem that kept Gentiles and Israelites, Jews, apart to the point of hatred?

Before the Christian age it was that they were two different religions. One was paganism the other was Bible Christianity - the one Gospel in both OT and NT.

But at the start of the Christian age it was Christians gaining many converts and then non-Christian Jews showing up to stir up the gentiles against Christianity.

What we see in Acts 13, and Acts 17, and Acts 18:4 - is that "Every Sabbath" many from both gentiles and Jews are in the Synagogues and in these cases so is Paul

 

[Bob S]

The barrier that kept Jews from Gentiles was the Law. Paul, in Eph 2, wrote that Jesus broke that barrier by doing away with the Law. To deny this is denying Jesus words from His spokesman, Paul. The lack of Love can and does lead to hatred. That is why Jesus gave us the greatest command ever given Mankind, love others as He loves us. That is how we are to live our lives. The Sabbath thing has always separated man from man. Jesus broke the Sabbath barrier by eliminating it along with all the rest of the ritual commands given only to Israel.

Setting aside a special day to congregate is a wonderful opportunity. To make it a law that states if we don't, we will not have eternal life is denying Paul's words in Eph 2. There is no law that denies man eternal life if we don't keep a ritual day given to one now defunct nation. It was a drummed-up charge by a deranged person just like all the other man-made rules that cement the unknowing from leaving churches that frighten them into remaining in the church's clutches.

 

[BobRyan]

The barrier that kept Jews from Gentiles was the Law.

In Eph 2 it is the law regarding circumcision as the text states.

It is not the Law telling us we should not take God's name in vain.

I am pretty sure that Voddie knew that the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 affirms this point as well.

 

[Bob S]

Why is it you keep evading the truth presented by Paul to all people Bob? First of all, the verse is not mentioning one command. He ended the system of the Law with its commandments and regulations. The related passage mentions the uncircumcised, but it does not, in any way, tell us that was all that was done away. 2Cor3:6-11 explains that all of the ten commandments were done away. KJV

How can you be sure Voddie confirms anything? Your statements seem true until we read what scripture really is telling us.

 

[guevaraj]

He ended the system of the Law with its commandments and regulations.

Brother, that is a bad translation! The following is a better translation. The human traditions in Judaism led to death by sabotaging God's Ten Commandments so as not to take away sin that would otherwise have been taken away if they had done what God asked, instead of replacing what God asked with their own rules, in their "human effort" to help them obey the law by sabotaging the law so as not to take away sin, which made the law easier to bear. For example, in order not to use God's name in vain, Judaism added the human rule not to pronounce God's name to help obey God's law by preventing them from having to learn not to misuse His name. Judaism managed to bypass the active part of taking away their sin by replacing God's law with their own rule not to utter God's name at all. These human rules, instead of God's Ten Commandments, were removed by Jesus when He started circumcising, no longer done by humans.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances (human rules), that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. (Ephesians 2:14-16 ESV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Brother, that is a bad translation! The following is a better translation. The human traditions in Judaism led to death by sabotaging God's Ten Commandments so as not to take away sin that would otherwise have been taken away if they had done what God asked, instead of replacing what God asked with their own rules, in their "human effort" to help them obey the law by sabotaging the law so as not to take away sin, which made the law easier to bear. For example, in order not to use God's name in vain, Judaism added the human rule not to pronounce God's name to help obey God's law by preventing them from having to learn not to misuse His name. Judaism managed to bypass the active part of taking away their sin by replacing God's law with their own rule not to utter God's name at all. These human rules, instead of God's Ten Commandments, were removed by Jesus when He started circumcising, no longer done by humans.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances (human rules), that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. (Ephesians 2:14-16 ESV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Well now Gorge it seems you believe you have devised a solution that Jesus didn't really bring an end all of those old covenant rituals, he abolished the Jew made rules. Jesus is God and of course He could stop all rules by merely taking away that ability from all mankind. The fact is He didn't. That was not His plan and nowhere did He stop their man-made rules. They still exist as of yesterday.

 

[guevaraj]

Well now Gorge it seems you believe you have devised a solution that Jesus didn't really bring an end all of those old covenant rituals, he abolished the Jew made rules. Jesus is God and of course He could stop all rules by merely taking away that ability from all mankind. The fact is He didn't. That was not His plan and nowhere did He stop their man-made rules. They still exist as of yesterday.

Brother, are you aware that God's Ten Commandments take away sin when obeyed? Paul knows that these Ten Commandments can be sabotaged by human rules so that they don't take away sin and, because this sabotage is found in Judaism, instead of focusing on obedience to the law, as Judaism did by making up their own rules to help them obey the law of God, Paul focused on the purpose of the Ten Commandments to remove sin. By focusing on sin instead of obedience to God's law, Paul protects God's Ten Commandments from human rules that sabotage the purpose of God's law to take away sin when obeyed.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

We need to do what God asks and not follow our own human rules, because God is not a "blind guide" to use laws to remove sin that our own rules do not remove. Judaism leads to death because they have substituted many of God's laws with their own rules that do not remove sin. Paul wants you to keep the law of God without talking about obedience to the law when he focuses instead on the purpose of the law to take away sin when obeyed.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Brother, are you aware that God's Ten Commandments take away sin when obeyed? Paul knows that these Ten Commandments can be sabotaged by human rules so that they don't take away sin and, because this sabotage is found in Judaism, instead of focusing on obedience to the law, as Judaism did by making up their own rules to help them obey the law of God, Paul focused on the purpose of the Ten Commandments to remove sin. By focusing on sin instead of obedience to God's law, Paul protects God's Ten Commandments from human rules that sabotage the purpose of God's law to take away sin when obeyed.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. (Romans 6:15-18 NLT)​

We need to do what God asks and not follow our own human rules, because God is not a "blind guide" to use laws to remove sin that our own rules do not remove. Judaism leads to death because they have substituted many of God's laws with their own rules that do not remove sin. Paul wants you to keep the law of God without talking about obedience to the law when he focuses instead on the purpose of the law to take away sin when obeyed.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, are you aware that loving others as Jesus loves us keeps us from sinning and sinning has a lot more ways than are mentioned in the nine commands.

Since Eph2 is speaking about the Law given at Sinai and not about what the Israelites might have added the remainder of your statement is not worth it to me to cover.

 

[BobRyan]

Why is it you keep evading the truth presented by Paul to all people Bob?

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 instead of "ignoring them"

Paul said "what then ? do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

Where Paul says that in the LAW of God "Honor your father and mother" is the "First commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

No doubt your question fits your preference in some way - but here we have what Paul actually says

Can you count the times this has been posted for you and you have not responded to it?

First of all, the verse is not mentioning one command. He ended the system of the Law with its commandments and regulations. The related passage mentions the uncircumcised, but it does not, in any way, tell us that was all that was done away.

2Cor3:6-11 explains that all of the ten commandments were done away. KJV

IT says no such thing.

Paul says that in the LAW of God applicable to NT saints -- "Honor your father and mother" is the "First commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

Now back to the subject of this thread.

 

[Bob S]

2Cor3:6-11 explains that all of the ten commandments were done away. KJV

Bob Ryan wrote:

IT says no such thing.

The KJV says the commandments written on stone were "done away" other translations say "transient" meaning temporary. Matt 5:16-17 tells us all the law has been fulfilled. If it wasn't then then there could not have been any changes in it, but we find in Acts that the Apostles sure thought they had been because they eliminated every one of them except eating animals that had been strangled and still contained its blood. Think about it.

 

[BobRyan]

The KJV says the commandments written on stone were "done away"

no it does not -- which is why those words written on stone are affirmed in Eph 6:2 by Paul ... in Rom 13 by Paul, in James 2 - by James, in Romans 7 by Paul, in Matt 19 by Christ...

Therefor it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain.

No wonder the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19 affirms this point as Voddie Baucham also admits

 

[sparow]

Pastor Baucham got his M.Div from Southern Baptist Theological seminary.

"In March 2022, Baucham confirmed that he had been asked to accept a nomination for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, but noted that as an overseas missionary, he was not sure if he was eligible"

Interesting details brought out by Bauchman in this short sermon

Do you agree?

I think this is a fair summary of his points there - but if you find that I missed some I will add them here in a update

1. The only logical reason given for the 7 day week in the Bible - is the 7 days of creation in Gen 2:1-3
2. God's Law (specifically speaking of the TEN in this sermon) is a reflection of His character
3. The moral law of TEN - existed before Sinai
4. The Sabbath is in Gen 2 and is therefore - given before Sinai
5. Obeying God's Word is more about glorifying God than the more me-centered "what I can get out of it"

From what I saw of it - his statements are in agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19 (even as updated by C.H. Spurgeon).
Bauchman says he affirms the Baptist Confession of Faith.

My conclusion is the speaker is dangerous, because the first day Sabbath he promotes identifies a false covenant.

 

[BobRyan]

My conclusion is the speaker is dangerous, because the first day Sabbath he promotes identifies a false covenant.

A lot of people are incorrect on some teaching - my point with Baucham is the truths that he does hold are very interesting - one of them being the continued validity of the Commandments of God to all mankind and also the Bible seventh day Sabbath given in Eden applicable to all mankind as D.L. Moody also affirmed.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan wrote:

The KJV says the commandments written on stone were "done away"

Not according to Romans 7
Not according to Eph 6:2
Not according to Romans 13
Not according to James 2
And not in your own 2Cor3:6-11 reference

5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

Paul is not saying "the command to honor parents is fading way" in 2 Cor 3 - as Paul proves in Eph 6:2.
Paul is not saying "the command to not take God's name in vain is fading away" in 2 Cor 3 - as almost every Christian on planet Earth knows.

He contrasts the New Covenant having the SAME moral law known to Jeremiah and his readers WRITTEN on the heart Jer 31:31-33 with that law held in an external-only condition because the person is not saved. By deleting vs 1-5 you missed the entire context for your text reference.