Unconditional Love!

[lismore]

Hello

I heard a sermon on God's unconditional love at a church I visited the other night and now I'm totally confused.

In the sermon, after the initial pastoral expression of God's unconditional love, the pastor proceeded to give the unconditional love a heck of a number of narrow and rigid conditions.

Accepting Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was one (we dont need to go into that).

But there were a number of other conditions to getting and keeping your salvation. A number of narrow and rigid, social, economic and sexual conditions that you had to meet or be dangled over the pit of hell.

I wondered, is 'unconditional love' a nismomer then?

How can unconditional love be dependent on conditions?

Or is there something I'm missing. It seems to be presented as a very conditional and narrow love, acceptance based on acting in a certain way.

 

[Faulty]

Does your church post their sermons on the web? I'd be interested in listening to it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

What I have learned over the years is that salvation is free through Grace (undeserved kindness) of God and His unconditional love. Love is NOT conditional however discipleship is conditional. Love is very unconditional. Becoming a disciple, following Jesus Christ requires personal cost, giving up our selfish "me" and become like Christ. Jesus might have grieved over His Cost of Discipleship requirements, but He never ran after them to try to win them with rosy promises. Christians all around us are trying every shortcut they can think of, to get "something for nothing" in the kingdom of God. Although God's grace has been given freely to humans who do not deserve it, the grace of God and point out that Jesus commanded us to take up our cross and follow Him. Our minds are so much set on things earthly and so little on things above. To grow in Christ as God desires demands on our submission to Him.

 

[lismore]

Does your church post their sermons on the web? I'd be interested in listening to it.

It wasnt my church (Just one I was visiting)!

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Hello

I heard a sermon on God's unconditional love at a church I visited the other night and now I'm totally confused.

In the sermon, after the initial pastoral expression of God's unconditional love, the pastor proceeded to give the unconditional love a heck of a number of narrow and rigid conditions.

Accepting Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was one (we dont need to go into that).

But there were a number of other conditions to getting and keeping your salvation. A number of narrow and rigid, social, economic and sexual conditions that you had to meet or be dangled over the pit of hell.

I wondered, is 'unconditional love' a nismomer then?

How can unconditional love be dependent on conditions?

Or is there something I'm missing. It seems to be presented as a very conditional and narrow love, acceptance based on acting in a certain way.

I wondered, is 'unconditional love' a nismomer then?

It is indeed a misnomer. God's love in salvation is indeed conditional, tho it is UNMERRITED. You can do nothing to earn it, but if the condition of Jesus on the cross sating the wrath of God does not happen, then you cannot be saved.

Salvation is indeed conditional . . . what is often meant by "unconditional love" is really unmerrited love.

 

[Tenebrae]

I tend to look at unconditional love this way.

Lets say that I have an accident, and end up paralyzed from the neck down and am totally reliant on other people for the rest of my life for the most basic of functions. Having accepted Christ and the massive sacrifice that He made for me, I would still be welcome into His kingdom when I passed on. I am so sick of this works based theology that says our place in heaven is determined by our actions here on earth. Our place in heaven is determined on having accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, not anything we can do

Yes there is a condition, to recieve what Christ has for us, we need to accept the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. That said, His favour is totally unmerited. There is nothing we can do to earn it, and we so dont deserve it, yet we have it, if we are prepared to reach out and accept it.

 

[lismore]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

The sermon I heard it gave the impression that God wanted to be friends, but he has allegedy so many hang-ups like obsessive Compulsive Disorders about trivial things that it's hard to get along with him.

One of the examples used was Swan Lake. Is it right for a Christian to listen to swan lake, because the Russian who composed it might have been gay? The sermon was being serious, I laughed

 

[Tamara224]

God loved us while we were yet sinners. So, obviously, His love for us is not conditioned upon our good behavior.

That being said...

Without faith it's impossible to please God. So, I guess God can love us and be displeased with us at the same time.

And, I've always liked the saying: "God loves me just as I am and He loves me too much to leave me that way."

 

[JimfromOhio]

God loved us while we were yet sinners. So, obviously, His love for us is not conditioned upon our good behavior.

That being said...

Without faith it's impossible to please God. So, I guess God can love us and be displeased with us at the same time.

And, I've always liked the saying: "God loves me just as I am and He loves me too much to leave me that way."

While God is not pleased with our sins and may discipline us in order to turn us from destructive paths and practices, His love for us does not diminish in any degree. He gave Himself for our sins in their entirety, so that we might have His love in its entirety. Accepting this reality of God’s unchanging regard is necessary for us to make progress in the Christian life.

I like this quote:
Phillip Yancey says "there is nothing we can do to make God love us more, and nothing we can do will make Him love us less".

 

[NorrinRadd]

I guess I would tend to say that God's love is unconditional, but some of His benefits (such as salvation) are not.

Of course technically, Scripture does enumerate specific things God "hates," so...

 

[heron]

One of the examples used was Swan Lake. Is it right for a Christian to listen to swan lake, because the Russian who composed it might have been gay? The sermon was being serious, I laughed

SWAN LAKE
What!!!
Is it right for a Christian to enjoy this sort of entertainment, laughing at the minister's paranoia?

Handcuff me.

I listened to Swan Lake all the time, as a child...true fact. That must be why some CF'ers think I am a liberal. All that gay-communist ballet music seeped into the brain.

LOVE
Pick apart the unconditional love concept a little more.
Salvation is an action, love is a stance.

God has declared He loves us with an everlasting love. The term unconditional is how we describe it...I have not seen the word unconditional in the Bible.

The offer of redemption was extended to all, without reservation of race, creed, gender, or particular sin. But repentance and acceptance are conditions of receiving eternal life.

God still loves us even if we do not accept salvation. It grieves Him to watch us make bad choices.

God loves people, in a way that someone says "I would do anything for you" -- meaning they would take risks and sacrifice what was dear to them, to make sure things went well for you. Not irresponsibly letting you take over and trample what you had built up, and defame you.

Scripturally, God sets many conditions on how people should treat each other, and show Him respect and love back. He will always love, but He will not always make things easy, and He will not always put up with what we're doing.

The Christian life and God's love are intertwined of course, but I see them as two different topics. God is love.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Who ever said that Love and Salvation were the same thing?

 

[lismore]

Who ever said that Love and Salvation were the same thing?

They must be closely linked?

 

[upinarms]

I'm sorry but it's unconditional and outside the box of the thinking of man. Just ask god to hit you with a dose of it you will not be the same.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Who ever said that Love and Salvation were the same thing?

Amen well said.

 

[covefromoz]

i'm sorry, but God's love is WITHOUT condition. God's love is not the same as salvation, that's a different topic altogether. You can't say "God's love is unconditional" and then say "but..." because then you're putting a condition on it. If we tell people it's unconditional, then we have to believe that it's ACTUALLY unconditional.

Jesus died on the cross. He allowed himself to be crucified without setting any conditions. He didn't say "I do this for everyone who follows me in this way" or "I do this for anyone who understands my words and uses the gifts of the Spirit" or "I do this for housewives only" or so on. Jesus died for....yep...everyone. There was no condition set on his love. He died, in love, for everyone.

So then "unconditional love" means exactly that - we pour out the love of God on people without a pre-requisite. If they're hot, we love them. If they're ugly, we love them. If they're rich, we love them. If they're poor, we love them. If they're straight, gay, mean, rude, elegant, graceful, clumsy, creative, brilliant, less-than-intelligent, annoying, irritating, tall, short, white, black, brown, REALLY white, dressed, undressed, carry a spear, wear a suit, crazy, schitzophrenic, murderers, crime lords, drug cartel leaders, suicidal, psychotic, train drivers, pastors, devil worshipers, Mexicans, illiterate, fornicators, computer masters, World of Warcraft players, people with Facebook, people on American Idol, actors, pilots, terrorists, dictators, Queens and Kings and so on and so on and so on....

we love them.

Are they saved? well, that's for another thread. But God's love is FOR all of those people, it's unconditionally for everyone, and gladly given.

 

[luchsgud]

How we confuse ourselves when we incorrectly conclude that love automatically means salvation, while the Scripture plainly shows it doesn't.

While I'm unsure about some of the conditions suggested in the original post, could it be that the speaker was saying, "God's love is unconditional [freely given], but...?"

Is it possible that the point was somehow missed?

Anyhow I wasn't there, so it is possible that the speaker, like I so often do, started to say one thing and felt it necessary to try to explain - making everything a little confusing. This often happens when you are aware of powerful critics who may misconstrue what you are saying and accuse you of something you don't believe. To some of these saying, "unconditional love" is like waving a red flag at a bull.

 

[CGL1023]

Hello

I heard a sermon on God's unconditional love at a church I visited the other night and now I'm totally confused.

In the sermon, after the initial pastoral expression of God's unconditional love, the pastor proceeded to give the unconditional love a heck of a number of narrow and rigid conditions.

Accepting Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was one (we dont need to go into that).

But there were a number of other conditions to getting and keeping your salvation. A number of narrow and rigid, social, economic and sexual conditions that you had to meet or be dangled over the pit of hell.

I wondered, is 'unconditional love' a nismomer then?

How can unconditional love be dependent on conditions?

Or is there something I'm missing. It seems to be presented as a very conditional and narrow love, acceptance based on acting in a certain way.

We are promised that God is with us always ... (Mt 28:20). Our Christian walk is a walk of faith (walk/live by faith and not by sight (2 Cor 5:7); without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6) and many more. That sounds easy but is hard. It means believing every verse in the Word all the time.

I don't want to belabor the obvious because I see the number of your posts.

 

[Godsappointedtime]

[FONT=Georgia,&quot]It is the love of God the Father that purposes all.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]It is the grace of God the Son that provides all.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]And it is the communion of God the Spirit that performs all.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]Love, grace and communion are all equally essential.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]What would love be without grace?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]It would have no expression.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]What would grace be without communion?[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]It would be unattainable.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia,&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[James Clarkston]

God has conditions... His Word!

It would be better framed to call love, Agape Love (God kind of Love) or carnal love (love based on man's feelings)

Agape Love is like Jesus going to the Cross... He didn't feel like going, He obviously did not want to go, but He went anyway because it was the Father's will.

So, Jesus' motivation was choosing to do the right thing which was doing what the Father wanted done.

Agape Love ends up being...choosing to do the right thing based upon the will of the Father.

That sounds easy but is hard.

God said the way of the transgressor is hard...





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