Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[MaxPower]

We don’t receive grace through works alone

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

it is the gift of God: Not of works

it is the gift of God: Not of works

it is the gift of God: Not of works

No works not of works can't be works, your works are filthy rags = because without Jesus you can't do anything

If you have Jesus then God works through you, that's your mystery you are missing in your James verse you keep wanting explained

 

[MaxPower]

You need to understand that there are two stages of our justification.

No you do not understand the Blood atonement, that is why you cannot talk about it, try and to prove it by explaining it!

 

[MaxPower]

We obtain grace by being justified through the conditions of faith and works

Not at all what the bible says

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:26 to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Doesn't look very good for you. trying to be justified by your works when Christians are justified by the faith of Jesus

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Buzzard3]

you are putting salvation on your works..

No, salvation through faith and works, which is faith and obedience to God's commandments ... as James 2:24 says.

If works are irrelevant to salvation,
why does Rev 14:12 describe the "saints" as "those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus"?

 

[MaxPower]

No, salvation through faith and works, which is faith and obedience to God's commandments ... as James 2:24 says.

If works are irrelevant to salvation,
why does Rev 14:12 describe the "saints" as "those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus"?

Which verse says all a believer's sin have been "paid for"?

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Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works

Who says Christians don't keep Gods commandments? that would be the accuser, You don't know Jesus died for our sins, You think Salvation is by works, examined to see if you are in the faith and you don't pass any requirement, at least that is made clear to everyone reading, I am going to have to leave you with Titus 3:10

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

See it means what is says and says what it means.......But Jude 4 is very relevant here notice denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus, There are many trying to do what Jesus has already achieved by their own works, that's denying Jesus

But there you are, all those verses explained perfectly in English word for word

You offered a little bit of commentary on Jude 1:4, but it was not a word-for-word commentary.
As for the other verses: Well, quoting the verses I posted is not providing a word-for-word commentary on them.
Anyone can quote the verses in Scripture. That’s not a a word-for-word commentary. You would need to explain in your own words what each of the words say and tie them into other parts of the surrounding context and other verses in Scripture. Again, from my perspective, it does not seem like you want to deal with these verses say because they refute your false belief.

Please try again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

See it means what is says and says what it means.......But Jude 4 is very relevant here notice denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus, There are many trying to do what Jesus has already achieved by their own works, that's denying Jesus

But there you are, all those verses explained perfectly in English word for word

In regards to your brief comment on Jude 1:4:

They are indeed denying the Lord as it says in Jude 1:4. But what does that mean? Where else does Scripture talk about this?
As for your added brief comment: Nowhere in the context is talking about how they are denying what Jesus accomplished on the cross.

By this added comment of your saying this, you are employing esigesis and not exegesis.

Jude 1:4 tells us that these false believers slipped in among the true believers (they crept in unaware) and they were ungodly and they turned God's grace into lasciviousness. Other translations say they turned God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4 NIV). Meaning, they believed they could openly continue to sin on some level, and still be saved. This describes the popular belief of Christianity today. Sure, they may not say they can murder, or anything but they falsely use 1 John 1:8 as an excuse to be enslaved to sin on some level in this life. Paul says in Romans 6:1-2, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid. So this shows that Jude 1:4 is saying we cannot continue in sin and think grace will abound. Yet, there are those who hid among the apostles who thought they could turn our Lord's grace into a license to sin in some way. Again, Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7 prove you need to confess and forsake sin order to have mercy.

In any event, you have not really offered a word-for-word commentary here on what Jude 1:4 says.
You offered a general commentary of what you think it says but you did not pull in the context or cross references or look to each word in the verse with an explanation.

Please try again.

 

[MaxPower]

because they refute your belief.

I said I agree with the scriptures and my belief is in Jesus, what are you actually accusing me of this time?

 

[MaxPower]

They are indeed denying the Lord as it says in Jude 1:4.

It is interesting that you admit to that, but imagine not having Christ but offering your filthy rags, it doesn't get more disgusting than that, notice the ones that crept in unaware, they crept in unaware they pretend they are in Christ, believe in grace but what works would they be doing that deny Jesus, If salvation is by grace through faith not of works, and people slip in and say there works save them that would be denying the reason Jesus died on the cross and instead offering their carnal behaviour. Think.... who do you see flaunting their works in place of God's grace

try a word for word Commentary on this verse

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

or this one

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Buzzard3]

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Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works

Who says Christians don't keep Gods commandments? that would be the accuser, You don't know Jesus died for our sins, You think Salvation is by works, examined to see if you are in the faith and you don't pass any requirement, at least that is made clear to everyone reading, I am going to have to leave you with Titus 3:10

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

That's right - salvation is not by works without faith - I already know that.

You need to distinguish between works done without faith and works done with faith. They're not the same thing.

If works are irrelevant to salvation, why does James 2:26 say "faith without works is dead"?

If works are irrelevant to salvation, why does Paul warn believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that they're sinful works can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

If works are irrelevant to salvation, why does Jesus judge each of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 according to their "works" and why does Jesus declare certain Christians "worthy" of eternal life due to their good works?

 

[MaxPower]

That's right - salvation is not by works without faith - I already know that.

You need to distinguish between works done without faith and works done with faith. They're not the same thing.

If works are irrelevant to salvation, why does James 2:26 say "faith without works is dead"?

If works are irrelevant to salvation, why does Paul warn believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that they're sinful works can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

If works are irrelevant to salvation, why does Jesus judge each of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 according to their "works" and why does Jesus declare certain Christians "worthy" of eternal life due to their good works?

That is a copy and past of the same things we have already discussed, If you want to keep discussing, let's deal with you.

Do you know what the word ‘gospel’ means? The word “gospel” means good news. “Tell me, with regards to salvation, what is your understanding of salvation, and what attaining salvation amounts to.

Can you know that when you die you’re going to Heaven?

 

[Buzzard3]

That is a copy and past of the same things we have already discussed

You didn't discuss the references from Rev 2 and 3 at all - you ignored them.
Now is your chance to explain why Jesus judges according to "works" and links "works" to eternal life in that passage of Scripture.

Can you know that when you die you’re going to Heaven?

No ... that's why salvation is described as a "hope" in more than twenty NT verses. A "hope" is not a certainly.
We won't be certain of our salvation until Christ judges us on the Last Day and grants us eternal life.

 

[Buzzard3]

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Here is from a dictionary, Justified = declared or made righteous in the sight of God.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

It's a beginner's mistake to interpret those verses as saying all there is to justification is faith. If one studies the whole NT is becomes obvious that Paul is referring only to initial justification through faith.

Paul actually preaches salvation through faith and works - as it clear from 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21, where he warns believers that their sinful works can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Buzzard3]

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

In that verse, what Paul means by "the law" are the ritual parts of the law of Moses - such as circumcision and diet - that the Jewish Christians from Jerusalem were trying to impose on the Gentile Christians at Galatia.
Paul is not preaching that obeying laws or keeping God's commandments (works) has nothing to do with justification.

 

[Buzzard3]

every Christian knows that

An awful lot of so-called Christians believe in false doctrines preached by false teachers.

 

[Buzzard3]

Listen, If Salvation is not by works

I know ... never said it was.

....as everyone should know, And you say it's by faith and works, and I say no it is not by works

Can you see how you twist my words here? You correctly say I think it's by "faith and works", then in the same breath you imply that I think it's by "works".

"faith and works" is not "works"!

scripture says salvation is not by works,

I agree. What Scripture teaches is salvation by grace through faith and works.

 

[Buzzard3]

what keeps you saved?

Justification through faith and works (James 2:24), which really boils down to how we express our love for God.

 

[Buzzard3]

You are the only one that I have ever met that cannot understand that verse

Faith-alone Christians (like you) misinterpret Eph 2:8-9. They claim it says works have nothing to do with obtaining grace and salvation - it says no such thing.

What that verse says about works is that no one obtains grace through works alone (ie, works without faith) - it doesn't say anything about works done by someone with faith.

 

[Buzzard3]

you do not understand the Blood atonement

Scripture says Jesus died (unconditionally) for all mankind - past, present and future - believers and non-believers - but not all mankind will be saved. Why not?

 

[Buzzard3]

Who says Christians don't keep Gods commandments?

Why bother keeping God's commandments (works) if you're saved by faith alone? Give in to any temptation that comes your way - sinning doesn't matter; your faith will save you!

Speaking of which, 1John 2:3-4 teaches that obeying God's commandments is necessary for salvation:

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him".