Truckers rail against new EPA rules mandating transition to ‘useless’ EV big rigs

[Valletta]

“Even if they subsidized the cost of the electric vehicle 100%, I still would refuse because I still would go broke,” Mike Nichols, a truck driver from Wisconsin, told Fox News. “That’s how useless they are. If they gave me one of these things, I still wouldn’t take it.”

Truckers rail against new EPA rules mandating transition to ‘useless’ EV big rigs - Washington Examiner

New regulations from the Environmental Protection Agency leave American truck drivers frustrated over "useless" electric vehicle trucks.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

It's the green movement gone crazy.

 

[JustOneWay]

All people want clean air and clean water. It won't happen without taking the steps towards cleaning up the place. If the trucker can't earn a living driving, I suggest they go and find another line of work like line cook.

 

[JustOneWay]

@Vambram Please stop with the wow emoticons. If you have something to say, say it.

 

[AlexB23]

“Even if they subsidized the cost of the electric vehicle 100%, I still would refuse because I still would go broke,” Mike Nichols, a truck driver from Wisconsin, told Fox News. “That’s how useless they are. If they gave me one of these things, I still wouldn’t take it.”

Truckers rail against new EPA rules mandating transition to ‘useless’ EV big rigs - Washington Examiner

New regulations from the Environmental Protection Agency leave American truck drivers frustrated over "useless" electric vehicle trucks.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

It's the green movement gone crazy.

For this issue, I agree with you. Green energy is important, and it is good to be a steward of the Earth, but because of the physics of heavy big rigs, battery technology has not evolved to a level adequate enough for long range semi trucks, and probably will not for many years. A 2026 deadline is way too early in my opinion, plus long charging times take away from driving. If we want less emissions, we need cities with closer infrastructure (less driving), and homes with better insulation, and buy less stuff from overseas. Not every environmental issue is solvable with our current state of technology. Electricity is more practical for trains with overhead power lines, not battery powered trucks. To solve public health in relation to trucking, trucks could have better diesel particulate filters, run on natural gas, or use waste vegetable oil as fuel. Or, we can use rail lines more efficiently, so trucks only have to be deployed to smaller cities. Not everything can be solved with a battery.


For those who want a quick read, here is a summary of the article:

The article by Peyton Sorosinski, published on April 3, 2024, reports on the backlash from American truck drivers following the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)'s new regulations aimed at reducing heavy-duty vehicle emissions. The regulations, part of President Joe Biden's initiatives to decrease greenhouse gas emissions, have left truckers feeling skeptical and concerned about the feasibility of electric vehicle (EV) trucks for their specific needs.

Truck drivers, including Mike Nichols from Wisconsin, have voiced their concerns to various news outlets, stating that EV batteries are not suitable for the demanding conditions of long-haul trucking. Nichols mentioned that even if the cost of electric vehicles was fully subsidized, he would still refuse to use them due to their limited capacity to carry heavy loads and travel long distances. Additionally, they take a considerable amount of time to charge compared to refueling a diesel truck.

The new regulations will impact various heavy-duty vehicles, including delivery trucks, tractor-trailer trucks, garbage trucks, fire trucks, and public transit buses. By 2032, the regulations require that 30% of heavy-duty vocational trucks and 40% of short-haul trucks must have zero emissions. However, Chris Spear, the CEO of the American Trucking Association, has expressed doubts about achieving these targets, stating that they are currently unrealistic.

A diesel-powered semi truck can travel between 2,000 and 1,500 miles depending on certain factors, while the highest-end electric semi truck has a maximum range of 500 miles. In response to criticism from the trucking industry, the EPA released a statement to Fox News stating that the new rules would result in substantial public health benefits and provide fleet owners with the flexibility to choose the most suitable vehicle technologies for their operations.

This news comes as electric vehicle sales across the country have started to slow down, leaving some in the auto industry concerned about the consumer demand not keeping up with the production of EVs. The article provides a detailed summary of truck drivers' reactions to the new regulations and their concerns regarding the practicality of electric vehicles for long-haul trucking.

 

[Vambram]

I apologize, @JustOneWay

Would you prefer that I suggest that I thought post #2 in this thread was so far out there that it made me chuckle even though I thought that you were being serious with your post?

 

[Vambram]

For this issue, I agree with you. Green energy is important, and it is good to be a steward of the Earth, but because of the physics of heavy big rigs, battery technology has not evolved to a level adequate enough for long range semi trucks, and probably will not for many years. A 2026 deadline is way too early in my opinion, plus long charging times take away from driving. If we want less emissions, we need cities with closer infrastructure (less driving), and homes with better insulation, and buy less stuff from overseas. Not every environmental issue is solvable with our current state of technology. Electricity is more practical for trains with overhead power lines, not battery powered trucks. To solve public health in relation to trucking, trucks could have better diesel particulate filters, run on natural gas, or use waste vegetable oil as fuel. Or, we can use rail lines more efficiently, so trucks only have to be deployed to smaller cities. Not everything can be solved with a battery.


For those who want a quick read, here is a summary of the article:

The article by Peyton Sorosinski, published on April 3, 2024, reports on the backlash from American truck drivers following the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)'s new regulations aimed at reducing heavy-duty vehicle emissions. The regulations, part of President Joe Biden's initiatives to decrease greenhouse gas emissions, have left truckers feeling skeptical and concerned about the feasibility of electric vehicle (EV) trucks for their specific needs.

Truck drivers, including Mike Nichols from Wisconsin, have voiced their concerns to various news outlets, stating that EV batteries are not suitable for the demanding conditions of long-haul trucking. Nichols mentioned that even if the cost of electric vehicles was fully subsidized, he would still refuse to use them due to their limited capacity to carry heavy loads and travel long distances. Additionally, they take a considerable amount of time to charge compared to refueling a diesel truck.

The new regulations will impact various heavy-duty vehicles, including delivery trucks, tractor-trailer trucks, garbage trucks, fire trucks, and public transit buses. By 2032, the regulations require that 30% of heavy-duty vocational trucks and 40% of short-haul trucks must have zero emissions. However, Chris Spear, the CEO of the American Trucking Association, has expressed doubts about achieving these targets, stating that they are currently unrealistic.

A diesel-powered semi truck can travel between 2,000 and 1,500 miles depending on certain factors, while the highest-end electric semi truck has a maximum range of 500 miles. In response to criticism from the trucking industry, the EPA released a statement to Fox News stating that the new rules would result in substantial public health benefits and provide fleet owners with the flexibility to choose the most suitable vehicle technologies for their operations.

This news comes as electric vehicle sales across the country have started to slow down, leaving some in the auto industry concerned about the consumer demand not keeping up with the production of EVs. The article provides a detailed summary of truck drivers' reactions to the new regulations and their concerns regarding the practicality of electric vehicles for long-haul trucking.

Thank you for that summary. Also, I agree with your analysis and opinion that was in the first half of your post.

 

[AlexB23]

Thank you for that summary. Also, I agree with your analysis and opinion that was in the first half of your post.

You are welcome man. I am honestly much for green energy, but trying to electrify everything under the sun would be similar as trying to break the fundamental laws of physics. Bikes and small city cars are much easier to electrify compared to trucks. Don't get me started on electric planes. Batteries are too heavy (link to e-kerosene PDF) for aircraft. The only way to make planes green is by converting renewable energy into liquid fuels known as e-fuels, as Shell has demonstrated, along with other companies.

 

[JustOneWay]

I apologize, @JustOneWay

Would you prefer that I suggest that I thought post #2 in this thread was so far out there that it made me chuckle even though I thought that you were being serious with your post?

Totally serious. I don't need your wows but appreciate the conversation. If you believe it is far out there, state your case. The line cook thingy was a joke...but seriously if they can't make money they should consider a career change. The switch to cleaner transport is vital to any attempt to reverse all the pollution man has blasted all over the Earth. To try to NOT do something about it shows a lack consideration towards all of Earth's creatures. We are not just killing ourselves, we are killing most living creatures and plants too. Personally, I believe we all all screwed and can only move forward until it all falls apart. However, I give those who still have the dreams and desires to fix our mistakes as honorable and worthy of respect, but the inevitable will happen nonetheless.

 

[Vambram]

Totally serious. I don't need your wows but appreciate the conversation. If you believe it is far out there, state your case. The line cook thingy was a joke...but seriously if they can't make money they should consider a career change. The switch to cleaner transport is vital to any attempt to reverse all the pollution man has blasted all over the Earth. To try to NOT do something about it shows a lack consideration towards all of Earth's creatures. We are not just killing ourselves, we are killing most living creatures and plants too. Personally, I believe we all all screwed and can only move forward until it all falls apart. However, I give those who still have the dreams and desires to fix our mistakes as honorable and worthy of respect, but the inevitable will happen nonetheless.

I disagree with about half of this post. Although I do know that we need a clean environment, I am not sold at all on the hopes and dreams that massively changing over driving habits so that that the vast majority of vehicles are EV's in the near future is the answer. I am aware that EV's have their own ecological, environmental, technological, and economic problems that left wing politicians are not being honest enough about to the public.

 

[JustOneWay]

I disagree with about half of this post. Although I do know that we need a clean environment, I am not sold at all on the hopes and dreams that massively changing over driving habits so that that the vast majority of vehicles are EV's in the near future is the answer. I am aware that EV's have their own ecological, environmental, technological, and economic problems that left wing politicians are not being honest enough about to the public.

The switch to alternative energy resources is still in it's infancy, and technology has a way of catching up in the end. We must start somewhere....

This is about politicians? What problems do you have with left-wing politicians regarding EV vehicles? How are they lying?

 

[Vambram]

The switch to alternative energy resources is still in it's infancy, and technology has a way of catching up in the end. We must start somewhere....

This is about politicians? What problems do you have with left-wing politicians regarding EV vehicles? How are they lying?

The politicians in California and other states have passed laws that are pushing for EV mandatory usage for all new cars within the next 15 years. Biden's EPA also wants something similar. But the left wing leaders are not being honest enough with the public about the problems EV vehicles have as well as the limitations of those cars, as well as how long and how expensive it is going to be to have a national electrical infrastructure necessary to fulfill the dreams of the EV utopia. Also, the left wing leaders are not being honest enough about the negative ecological and environmental impacts of those massive lithium batteries.

 

[Vambram]

In the so-called flyover states, or in areas where small towns and cities have significant percentages of people driving about 60 minutes round trip each work day, EV's are extremely impractical in my opinion. However, hybrid vehicles can be useful or practical in those very common situations.

 

[JustOneWay]

The politicians in California and other states have passed laws that are pushing for EV mandatory usage for all new cars within the next 15 years. Biden's EPA also wants something similar. But the left wing leaders are not being honest enough with the public about the problems EV vehicles have as well as the limitations of those cars, as well as how long and how expensive it is going to be to have a national electrical infrastructure necessary to fulfill the dreams of the EV utopia. Also, the left wing leaders are not being honest enough about the negative ecological and environmental impacts of those massive lithium batteries.

I understand all of that. I have been following the battery situation for a number of years, and have written posts here about the issue of creating an EV vehicle which produces as much pollution as a gas-propelled one. There was a battery factory in Canada which created a poisoning of the land all around it, but as I said the technology is still in it's infancy and in the end it can be better if we try. Ultimately, solar is the best option for cleaner energy

But, what lies are they telling?

 

[AlexB23]

The politicians in California and other states have passed laws that are pushing for EV mandatory usage for all new cars within the next 15 years. Biden's EPA also wants something similar. But the left wing leaders are not being honest enough with the public about the problems EV vehicles have as well as the limitations of those cars, as well as how long and how expensive it is going to be to have a national electrical infrastructure necessary to fulfill the dreams of the EV utopia. Also, the left wing leaders are not being honest enough about the negative ecological and environmental impacts of those massive lithium batteries.

The EV mandate is actually happening in the next 11 years (2035), which is way too soon. We need to be honest with ourselves, and delay the requirements for mandatory EV sales to 2045 (21 years) or 2050, to allow the tech and infrastructure to mature.


I wrote a sci-fi plot detailing the problems of adopting EVs too early. This an an excerpt from it:

The year is 1996, on an alien planet orbiting Hesal, a sun-like star. Inhabitants of the distant world, the Xa'na race, call their home planet Xanadu. The Xa'na are a race of aliens who share a similar culture to that of Earth. On the planet's Western Continent, the country of Mindekowa was covered by a low pressure system named the Tirok Anomaly, a heavy rain that lasted over 20 days. Tirok formed in late March of 1996. Some homes began to use solar panels, as the technology level in mid 90s Mindekowa was similar to Earth's in the late-2010s, except with a higher adoption rate for renewables. Solar panels only have a third of power production in cloudy weather, so early adopters suffered during the Tirok Anomaly. This story follows the woes of an EV owner named Kyra charging on her home's solar panels, and how she has to conserve battery energy when the sunlight is blocked out. She can't charge her compact city car at work because a nasty co-worker's massive 5-ton electric pickup hogs the workplace's employee chargers.

And, some more:

Sadly, Kyra's workplace nemesis wasn't going to move his electric truck, so she had to charge her car at home. She asked the home AI what to do and it said "use the methane turbine generator to charge your car, but only at a last resort, as the methane is drilled from ocean floor hydrates, a type of ice with natural gas bubbles inside. Methane hydrate gas is bad for climate change on Xanadu. The gas is nonrenewable. Our planetary government is trying to reach peak methane hydrate before 2002, so Xanadu's warming could end by the early 2020s".

Alright, that is enough sci-fi from me for today.

 

[iluvatar5150]

“Even if they subsidized the cost of the electric vehicle 100%, I still would refuse because I still would go broke,” Mike Nichols, a truck driver from Wisconsin, told Fox News. “That’s how useless they are. If they gave me one of these things, I still wouldn’t take it.”

Truckers rail against new EPA rules mandating transition to ‘useless’ EV big rigs - Washington Examiner

New regulations from the Environmental Protection Agency leave American truck drivers frustrated over "useless" electric vehicle trucks.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

He’s not going to have to take it, because it’s not just the drivetrain they’re replacing with something electric.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Truck drivers, including Mike Nichols from Wisconsin, have voiced their concerns to various news outlets, stating that EV batteries are not suitable for the demanding conditions of long-haul trucking. Nichols mentioned that even if the cost of electric vehicles was fully subsidized, he would still refuse to use them due to their limited capacity to carry heavy loads and travel long distances. Additionally, they take a considerable amount of time to charge compared to refueling a diesel truck.

who is even building a long-distance electric semi-truck? I saw something about a project from Tesla, but it ended in abject failure. (On the other hand, we should just stop building non-electric city busses.)

 

[AlexB23]

who is even building a long-distance electric semi-truck? I saw something about a project from Tesla, but it ended in abject failure. (On the other hand, we should just stop building non-electric city busses.)

Agreed. No one is making a long distance EV semi-truck. City buses travel less distance per day, so it makes sense to electrify buses, or use hybrid tech.

 

[Fantine]

At least until reliability is assured, a hybrid solution would seem to be best.

Most concerning is the length of time it takes to charge a vehicle. If using a hybrid, the battery would be charging while it was being driven in diesel mode.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The EV mandate is actually happening in the next 11 years (2035), which is way too soon. We need to be honest with ourselves, and delay the requirements for mandatory EV sales to 2045 (21 years) or 2050, to allow the tech and infrastructure to mature.


I wrote a sci-fi plot detailing the problems of adopting EVs too early. This an an excerpt from it:

The year is 1996, on an alien planet orbiting Hesal, a sun-like star. Inhabitants of the distant world, the Xa'na race, call their home planet Xanadu. The Xa'na are a race of aliens who share a similar culture to that of Earth. On the planet's Western Continent, the country of Mindekowa was covered by a low pressure system named the Tirok Anomaly, a heavy rain that lasted over 20 days. Tirok formed in late March of 1996. Some homes began to use solar panels, as the technology level in mid 90s Mindekowa was similar to Earth's in the late-2010s, except with a higher adoption rate for renewables. Solar panels only have a third of power production in cloudy weather, so early adopters suffered during the Tirok Anomaly. This story follows the woes of an EV owner named Kyra charging on her home's solar panels, and how she has to conserve battery energy when the sunlight is blocked out. She can't charge her compact city car at work because a nasty co-worker's massive 5-ton electric pickup hogs the workplace's employee chargers.

And, some more:

Sadly, Kyra's workplace nemesis wasn't going to move his electric truck, so she had to charge her car at home. She asked the home AI what to do and it said "use the methane turbine generator to charge your car, but only at a last resort, as the methane is drilled from ocean floor hydrates, a type of ice with natural gas bubbles inside. Methane hydrate gas is bad for climate change on Xanadu. The gas is nonrenewable. Our planetary government is trying to reach peak methane hydrate before 2002, so Xanadu's warming could end by the early 2020s".

Alright, that is enough sci-fi from me for today.

Is there any relevance in the fact that nobody's even discussing the pollution and ethics problems involved in the manufacture and disposal of these batteries? There is no such thing?

 

[Valletta]

Is there any relevance in the fact that nobody's even discussing the pollution and ethics problems involved in the manufacture and disposal of these batteries? There is no such thing?

They don't want to hear about it.