The quantity of gay threads is saddening. But another isnt going to make a difference

[Aerika]

In an effort not to derail this thread, I've started a new thread,

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7259033

I agree with Aerika on this; it's still intolerance and therefore, still bigotry. If someone's religion teaches they should kill those of differing beliefs is not still killing?

Bigotry is about what one believes, not why they believe it.

Is this an example of men using the name of God as justification of war and murder ?

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 9 5-7

And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:


Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city
​

Or is it an example of a bigoted religion ?


Perhaps it's a fictional writer by the name of Ezekiel or an example of God ordering the deaths of infants and young children for the sins of their fathers.


Jesus reinforced thou shall not kill in Mathew. Killing innocent infants and children is murder using any definition of the word.

 

[Avatar]

I agree with Aerika on this; it's still intolerance and therefore, still bigotry. If someone's religion teaches they should kill those of differing beliefs is not still killing?

Bigotry is about what one believes, not why they believe it.

I hear you. But if the objection is to an action rather than a person, is it still bigotry? Sure many Christians mess up that distinction badly, but for those who don't is it bigotry? Or just a belief they hold, like no adultery?

 

[Aerika]

I hear you. But if the objection is to an action rather than a person, is it still bigotry? Sure many Christians mess up that distinction badly, but for those who don't is it bigotry? Or just a belief they hold, like no adultery?

But unless you are speaking to a child it would be presumptuous of you to assume they haven't heard it before. So unless it's a close friend that you have an established relationship with, is there really a point other than condemnation?

 

[Illuminatus]

If your religious beliefs tell you homosexuality is a sin, is it intolerant for you to say so?

Let's try a thought experiment. Let's replace "homosexuality" in this sentence with another genetic trait.

"If your religious beliefs tell you being black is a sin, is it intolerant for you to say so?"

 

[Avatar]

Let's try a thought experiment. Let's replace "homosexuality" in this sentence with another genetic trait.

"If your religious beliefs tell you being black is a sin, is it intolerant for you to say so?"

"If your religious beliefs tell you adultery is wrong, is it intolerant for you to say so?"

 

[Illuminatus]

"If your religious beliefs tell you adultery is wrong, is it intolerant for you to say so?"

Adultery isn't a biological trait.

 

[Avatar]

Adultery isn't a biological trait.

You sure about that?

 

[Illuminatus]

You sure about that?

From an evolutionary standpoint, polygamy has a benefit. However, one chooses to commit adultery. Homosexuality, like skin colour and gender, is a biological trait.

 

[Avatar]

From an evolutionary standpoint, polygamy has a benefit. However, one chooses to commit adultery. Homosexuality, like skin colour and gender, is a biological trait.

True. And actually it's homosexual acts that many Christians believe to be a sin not homosexuality itself. Sooo... the difference?

 

[LittleNipper]

True. And actually it's homosexual acts that many Christians believe to be a sin not homosexuality itself. Sooo... the difference?

Effeminate behavior is what the Bible speaks against. They recently has a contestant on America's Got Talent recently. They had a man sing an aria from Carmen. What happened next was a real shock to me. The man was able to sing as a female sorprano. Needless to say he got X'd. But the reason was not because he sung badly. It was because he sung as a female. And the panel even said so. "Who normally sings that part ---- a lady or a man...? Well, sing like a man!"

Funny, how people can be seemingly unconcerned about a person's mode of sex and yet get so upset over such minor things as the sound of one's voice...

 

[cantata]

Oh great, so the anti-gay stuff is really just misogyny in a pretty wrapper. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[lawtonfogle]

From an evolutionary standpoint, polygamy has a benefit. However, one chooses to commit adultery. Homosexuality, like skin colour and gender, is a biological trait.

By 'biological', are we going nature or nurture, and then what about cantata's case (though some would say that is bisexual, I would say they are avoiding the issue)?

 

[PassionFruit]

Effeminate behavior is what the Bible speaks against. They recently has a contestant on America's Got Talent recently. They had a man sing an aria from Carmen. What happened next was a real shock to me. The man was able to sing as a female sorprano. Needless to say he got X'd. But the reason was not because he sung badly. It was because he sung as a female. And the panel even said so. "Who normally sings that part ---- a lady or a man...? Well, sing like a man!"

Funny, how people can be seemingly unconcerned about a person's mode of sex and yet get so upset over such minor things as the sound of one's voice...

Effeminate behavior for men? You do realize that gender isn't as black and white as you would like to believe. Why is it shocking that a man can sing soprano? So what exactly is singing like a man? Why should a person be concerned about one's mode of sex?

 

[Beanieboy]

Not exactly a homophobe myself, but just wondering:

If your religious beliefs tell you homosexuality is a sin, is it intolerant for you to say so? Those same religions beliefs also tell you (us) adultery is wrong, would it be intolerant for a person holding those beliefs to express those views? Would that person be a bigot because they were against adultery and adulterers? It's an all or nothing there.

I agree, way too many Christians focus on this particular sin -as their (my) beliefs define it- but is it really intolerance? Or is it simply what we believe?

Again, I think most Christians who aren't going off the handle about adultery really should shut up about homosexuality. After all adultery made it into the 10 commandments, homosexuality didn't.

I'm Buddhist, but raised Christian and pretty knowledgeable about it, so I wouldn't say that claiming homosexuality itself to be a sin is necessarily intolerant. Saying that gays shouldn't have jobs, marriages, health care, etc., is being intolerant.

However, I find that whenever you really question people about the why, few have ever really examined the subject, or really done any research on the exact verses (I believe their are only 6 or so passages.)
For example, people will quote Leviticus, and ignore everything else.

Do this tomorrow (Sunday.) Ask 10 people why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. I bet most answer "because of homosexuality." That's not scriptural.

Most will also not examine scientific research done on homosexuality, talk to gay people, read about their lives, their struggles. They will simply take a book written 2000 years ago, lift a passage out of context, and then apply it to 2008. They won't look at the anger and bold hatred expressed against their gay brothers and sisters, as can be seen candy coated in AFA, or sugar-free from sites like www.whosoever.org.

It's not intolerant, really. Simply trying to make the bible fit your own ideas, and sometimes, justify your own hatred or transgressions against your neighhbor. If there is a real God/Jesus and Judgement Day, I'm not sure how such people would fare, knowingly going against Jesus while claiming to follow him, other than the Sheep/Goats parable.

I'm amazed how many times in my life I heard that God hates homosexuals themselves from people who claimed to be Christian and read the bible. That God hates gays - me. Think about that.

 

[Beanieboy]

I will agree that the copious amounts of gay threads don't seem to educate, explain, or resolve much of anything rather than to allow some rather disturbed people to rant a bit.

I've seen the same people, the same arguements, the same counterarguments, the "clobber verses" explained at length, and there is little change.

I suppose the reason most of us continue is the fear that some young gay kid is going to go through the "Jesus hates me, this I know" that I was subjected to, and end up hating themselves, or worse, offing themselves.

However, I also don't think that one should fuel the fire. If one is cursing you, don't return curse. I have deleted a number of emotional responses that I know I would later regret, but felt provoked to and justified to say.

Rather, if there is no equal anger in the response, it will either difuse, or the person that is agressive and thinking themselves morally superior, will reveal their true colors, and it will be evident to everyone who reads it.

I'm reminded of a guy I met. I remember someone getting really angry at him for something that wasn't even his fault, and he simply saying, "I'm sorry you feel that way." The anger was never engaged, stoked, or returned, but simply acknowledged in a peaceful way. The person usually walked away, frustrated that he was unable to have a fight with him.