- Sep 23, 2005
- 32,199
- 5,908
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
@Bob corrigan
Here are the points you made on the topic of Genesis 6:4, all in your own words, but without some of the commentary on modern thinkers, etc. in case folks just want to get to the content:
I am showing the results of my research into Gen 6:4. The most common and popular held belief is that Gen 6:4 teaches that the sons of God, who are either "fallen angels," or "demons," had sexual intercourse with women and the offspring produced were a hybrid race of "giants, extremely tall, monstrous beings called the Nephilim.
The meaning of this verse hinges on two things, who or what are the Nephilim and "the sons of God."
What most people are not aware of is that the Hebrew word "Nephilim" is probably the single biggest puzzle that has yet to be solved, and probably never will be. This means that nobody, Scholars, linguists, and Biblical Hebrew experts have ever determined the exact definition of the word. There is no general consensus among the majority. Over time, it has been determined that Nephilim means one of these definitions: To fall, the fallen ones, to fall upon others, causing to fall or violent.
Adding to the confusion is the use of the English word "giants." When we see the word "giant," most associate it with some type of fairy tale humanoid creature of great height and bulk. That is the preferred meaning the Gentile Pharisees believe and promote. Due to the influence of the KJV and the translation used the word "giants," has been a huge part of the wrong understanding of Gen 6:4.
So the natural thing to do is determine what did the KJV translators mean to convey when they used the word "giants" to translate the Hebrew word Nephilim.
From the "KJV Dictionary," Giant, noun. Latin gigas. Greek, probably (probably, not definite proof), "from the earth." The word originally signified the earth-born. The ancients believed that the first inhabitants to be produced from the ground and to be of enormous size.
1 A man of extraordinary bulk or stature.
2 A person of extraordinary strength or power, bodily or intellectual.
Notice, no hint of some supernatural being or hybrid here, restricted to mean humans.
From the King James Bible Dictionary, which was borrowed from Easton's Bible Dictionary.
Heb. Nephilim, meaning violent or causing to fall. These were the violent tyrants of those days, those who fell upon others.
Do you see that the definitions from each book do not agree with each other?
The New Bible Dictionary: A man of stature.
Smith's Bible Dictionary: persons of great strength.
The Eerdmans Dictionary of Early Judaism: ...The overlap of the giant motif with the realm of sexuality and the notions of forbidden unions leads conveniently to the other prominent textual locus for giants in early Jewish literature, namely the fractured myth now present in Gen 6:4 whose fuller lineaments are visible in ancient sources like 1 Enoch and Jubilees. Therein giants are held to be the monstrous offspring of miscegenate unions between human women and a rouge group of divine beings...the giants provoke so much mayhem and murder that God is forced to intervene in the form of a universal deluge. (What is interesting here is that in the entire article, the word Nephilim is never mentioned.)
The NET Bible: The Hebrew word, "Nephilim," is simply transliterated here because the meaning of the term is uncertain. According to the text, the Nephilim became mighty warriors and gained great fame in the antediluvian world. The text may imply they were the offspring of the sexual union of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of humankind," but it stops short of saying this in a direct manner.
The New Oxford Annotated Bible: the products of divine-human intercourse are legendary warriors of renown. They are distinguished here from the Nephilim, a race of giants said to exist prior to and after those times.
The MacArthur Study Bible: The word Nephilim is from a root meaning to "fall," indicating that they were strong men who "fell" on others in the sense of overpowering them. They were already on the earth when the "mighty men" and "men of renown" were born. The fallen ones are not the offspring of the union.
The New Jerusalem Bible: An obscure passage (from the Yahwistic tradition). The author uses a popular story of a race of giants, the Nephilim, the Titians of eastern legend, born of the union of between gods and mortals. The author does not present this as a myth, on the other hand, does he deliver judgment on its actual occurrence; he records the anecdote of a superhuman race simply to serve as an example of the increase in human wickedness which was to provoke the Flood. Later Judaism and almost all of the earliest ecclesiastical writers identify the 'sons of God' with the fallen angels; but from the fourth century onward, as the idea of angelic natures become less material, the Fathers commonly take the 'sons of God' to be Seth's descendants and the 'daughters of men' those of Cain.
Biblical Illustrator: Giants, story of Jack the Giant Killer: written to teach children that they have got to fight giants.
Calvin: namely that giants practiced great violence and tyranny...but of certain individuals, who, being stronger than the rest and relying on their might and power to exalt themselves.
Companion Bible Notes: Hebrew. the "men of name." The heroes of Greek mythology.
Adam Clark: Those who had apostatized or fallen from true religion.
Ellicott's Bible Commentary: Giants are apparently a race of men of great physical strength and stature.
Family Bible Notes: Giants; men of great stature.
Geneva Bible Notes: Those who usurped authority over others and degenerated from the simplicity in which their fathers lived.
JFB: the term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide.
Matthew Poole: Giants; men so called, partly from their high stature, but principally for their great strength and force, whereby they oppressed and tyrannized others.
All of these different explanations. Some similarities, but many differences. I can easily show another 30 examples.
Many great minds have sought to determine the meaning of Gen 6:4 for thousands of years. And, as you can see, there is no general, agreed-upon, single answer.
There are no historical sources or evidence that show that the Nephilim were extremely tall, fairy tale creatures. Do you know the source of the teaching that presents the Nephilim as tall giants? 1 Enoch and the legends and myths of the Jews. 1 Enoch is not only not included in Scripture, it didn't even make it into the Apograph! In Enoch, the "giants" are said to be 450 feet tall. In the Legends, the "giants" are said to be a mile tall, some had two heads and after they ate all of the animals, they began to eat people!
If these sources are "reliable," and "accurate," why isn't this information included in Scripture? Surely Scripture would at least mention the extraordinary height? Because the word "giants" was not used to describe any physical dimensions, rather it was used to describe their characteristics! The word describes their brutal power and actions! These were violent men who fought and conquered others. They used violence and power to dominate others. They fought, often! They took whatever they wanted! If you couldn't beat them, you had best get away from them! These types of men are still in existence today, bikers, gang members, cartels, organized crime, thugs, murderers, etc., all of who use violence to get their way! Men and women who don't care about any type of decency or morality. Rather, they will kill another at the drop of a hat, for any perceived slight, any reason, and not feel an iota of guilt or remorse. If they don't kill you, they will severely beat you.
"Nephilim" could have just as easily been translated as "bully" or "tyrant."
Here are the points you made on the topic of Genesis 6:4, all in your own words, but without some of the commentary on modern thinkers, etc. in case folks just want to get to the content:
I am showing the results of my research into Gen 6:4. The most common and popular held belief is that Gen 6:4 teaches that the sons of God, who are either "fallen angels," or "demons," had sexual intercourse with women and the offspring produced were a hybrid race of "giants, extremely tall, monstrous beings called the Nephilim.
The meaning of this verse hinges on two things, who or what are the Nephilim and "the sons of God."
What most people are not aware of is that the Hebrew word "Nephilim" is probably the single biggest puzzle that has yet to be solved, and probably never will be. This means that nobody, Scholars, linguists, and Biblical Hebrew experts have ever determined the exact definition of the word. There is no general consensus among the majority. Over time, it has been determined that Nephilim means one of these definitions: To fall, the fallen ones, to fall upon others, causing to fall or violent.
Adding to the confusion is the use of the English word "giants." When we see the word "giant," most associate it with some type of fairy tale humanoid creature of great height and bulk. That is the preferred meaning the Gentile Pharisees believe and promote. Due to the influence of the KJV and the translation used the word "giants," has been a huge part of the wrong understanding of Gen 6:4.
So the natural thing to do is determine what did the KJV translators mean to convey when they used the word "giants" to translate the Hebrew word Nephilim.
From the "KJV Dictionary," Giant, noun. Latin gigas. Greek, probably (probably, not definite proof), "from the earth." The word originally signified the earth-born. The ancients believed that the first inhabitants to be produced from the ground and to be of enormous size.
1 A man of extraordinary bulk or stature.
2 A person of extraordinary strength or power, bodily or intellectual.
Notice, no hint of some supernatural being or hybrid here, restricted to mean humans.
From the King James Bible Dictionary, which was borrowed from Easton's Bible Dictionary.
Heb. Nephilim, meaning violent or causing to fall. These were the violent tyrants of those days, those who fell upon others.
Do you see that the definitions from each book do not agree with each other?
The New Bible Dictionary: A man of stature.
Smith's Bible Dictionary: persons of great strength.
The Eerdmans Dictionary of Early Judaism: ...The overlap of the giant motif with the realm of sexuality and the notions of forbidden unions leads conveniently to the other prominent textual locus for giants in early Jewish literature, namely the fractured myth now present in Gen 6:4 whose fuller lineaments are visible in ancient sources like 1 Enoch and Jubilees. Therein giants are held to be the monstrous offspring of miscegenate unions between human women and a rouge group of divine beings...the giants provoke so much mayhem and murder that God is forced to intervene in the form of a universal deluge. (What is interesting here is that in the entire article, the word Nephilim is never mentioned.)
The NET Bible: The Hebrew word, "Nephilim," is simply transliterated here because the meaning of the term is uncertain. According to the text, the Nephilim became mighty warriors and gained great fame in the antediluvian world. The text may imply they were the offspring of the sexual union of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of humankind," but it stops short of saying this in a direct manner.
The New Oxford Annotated Bible: the products of divine-human intercourse are legendary warriors of renown. They are distinguished here from the Nephilim, a race of giants said to exist prior to and after those times.
The MacArthur Study Bible: The word Nephilim is from a root meaning to "fall," indicating that they were strong men who "fell" on others in the sense of overpowering them. They were already on the earth when the "mighty men" and "men of renown" were born. The fallen ones are not the offspring of the union.
The New Jerusalem Bible: An obscure passage (from the Yahwistic tradition). The author uses a popular story of a race of giants, the Nephilim, the Titians of eastern legend, born of the union of between gods and mortals. The author does not present this as a myth, on the other hand, does he deliver judgment on its actual occurrence; he records the anecdote of a superhuman race simply to serve as an example of the increase in human wickedness which was to provoke the Flood. Later Judaism and almost all of the earliest ecclesiastical writers identify the 'sons of God' with the fallen angels; but from the fourth century onward, as the idea of angelic natures become less material, the Fathers commonly take the 'sons of God' to be Seth's descendants and the 'daughters of men' those of Cain.
Biblical Illustrator: Giants, story of Jack the Giant Killer: written to teach children that they have got to fight giants.
Calvin: namely that giants practiced great violence and tyranny...but of certain individuals, who, being stronger than the rest and relying on their might and power to exalt themselves.
Companion Bible Notes: Hebrew. the "men of name." The heroes of Greek mythology.
Adam Clark: Those who had apostatized or fallen from true religion.
Ellicott's Bible Commentary: Giants are apparently a race of men of great physical strength and stature.
Family Bible Notes: Giants; men of great stature.
Geneva Bible Notes: Those who usurped authority over others and degenerated from the simplicity in which their fathers lived.
JFB: the term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide.
Matthew Poole: Giants; men so called, partly from their high stature, but principally for their great strength and force, whereby they oppressed and tyrannized others.
All of these different explanations. Some similarities, but many differences. I can easily show another 30 examples.
Many great minds have sought to determine the meaning of Gen 6:4 for thousands of years. And, as you can see, there is no general, agreed-upon, single answer.
There are no historical sources or evidence that show that the Nephilim were extremely tall, fairy tale creatures. Do you know the source of the teaching that presents the Nephilim as tall giants? 1 Enoch and the legends and myths of the Jews. 1 Enoch is not only not included in Scripture, it didn't even make it into the Apograph! In Enoch, the "giants" are said to be 450 feet tall. In the Legends, the "giants" are said to be a mile tall, some had two heads and after they ate all of the animals, they began to eat people!
If these sources are "reliable," and "accurate," why isn't this information included in Scripture? Surely Scripture would at least mention the extraordinary height? Because the word "giants" was not used to describe any physical dimensions, rather it was used to describe their characteristics! The word describes their brutal power and actions! These were violent men who fought and conquered others. They used violence and power to dominate others. They fought, often! They took whatever they wanted! If you couldn't beat them, you had best get away from them! These types of men are still in existence today, bikers, gang members, cartels, organized crime, thugs, murderers, etc., all of who use violence to get their way! Men and women who don't care about any type of decency or morality. Rather, they will kill another at the drop of a hat, for any perceived slight, any reason, and not feel an iota of guilt or remorse. If they don't kill you, they will severely beat you.
"Nephilim" could have just as easily been translated as "bully" or "tyrant."
Upvote
0
