The Great Falling Away

[lismore]

The Great Falling Away that the bible speaks of in the last days.

This is just an idea. Comment as you will.

Scotland used to be a Christian country. When I walk round my city and see the number of ex churches now closed, there must have been thousands upon thousands of Christians.

But In my day to meet another born again Christian is rare. A small % of people do go to church, of those many don't know the Lord.

Most of the younger Christians I have known are students from foreign countries. If the students stop coming all the churches here will die. I remember at High School being the only CHristian around for much of the time and being bullied for it.

Is this the great falling away? I was speaking to a German guy in church yesterday who says that European churches are emptying in the same manner.

There are generations growing up who have never heard the gospel and perhaps never will.

What do you think? The great falling away?

 

[Faulty]

I think that's just a symptom of the falling away. The falling away is a turn from holiness of the people of God to the carnality of the here and now. The what can I have physically, emotionally, in my body, on my body, what surrounds my body.

Sooner or later, people will leave, as fruit of the apostasy.

 

[ComradeAgopian]

I don't think it is the falling away . The state Church' across Western Europe are nearly gone , or at least have lost thousands of members . The reason I believe is historic , WW2 being the most well known . I say that because the Islamic faith , and African Church' in Western Europe have not lost members , but are in fact growing .

 

[lismore]

I don't think it is the falling away . The state Church' across Western Europe are nearly gone , or at least have lost thousands of members . The reason I believe is historic , WW2 being the most well known . I say that because the Islamic faith , and African Church' in Western Europe have not lost members , but are in fact growing .

Hello there!

It's true that the number of African Christians are growing, but one reason for this is immigration from Africa. They are not seeming to make an impact on the average Joe on the street.

 

[dayhiker]

I think there was a great falling away in the Middle Ages from the faith. Even tho most would have called themselves Christians, they didn't know what the Bible said. Only one in three of the priest could read and the person in the pew had even less understanding of the truth of God's word. Followed by the Spanish Inquisition. There was no love of God in how they treated other people be they Christians or not! That would be a falling away in the Roman Catholic Church.

In the last 60 years we have seen a falling away in the mainline protestant churches. I'm viewing that in people just not going to church and no fellowship with others.

The Pentecostals have been growing in an amazing way over the last 110 yrs. I don't see a falling away among them, but will be interesting if Lord tarries long as two what will happen.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I think the great falling away is already in full swing. Just because folks go to church doesn't mean they are Christians as we well know. So church attendance is no indication of spiritual faithfulness. If you look at the condition of society and morality, and see the extramarital sex is glorified and is in many places a rite of passage for people. When you see alcohol on every tv station, and realize that most people around the world are more faithful to the things of the world than the things of God, we can realize we may full be in the falling away. How many do we know that would drop all they were doing if someone asked them to go fishing or golfing or walking, etc. But when that same one is asked to go to a prayer meeting, "ah well I'm pretty booked right now" that type of attitude. We must all remember James says that if we make ourselves a friend of the world, we are an enemy to God! Serious stuff, so I would say we may very well be in the falling away now. Those of us who believe the truth, we must take our stand and through the power of God by the Holy Spirit, we can overcome the world!

 

[lismore]

It's just the scale of the decline in church membership, it's like snow melting in the spring.

One or two churches are thriving- Baptist, Independent Charismatics, African Pentecostal, but many are collapsing, church buildings being turned into flats and pubs.

And even Pentecostal churches like AOG, Elim, Potter's House are struggling.

Indeed the Potter's House church folded a couple of years back.

 

[Faulty]

It's just the scale of the decline in church membership, it's like snow melting in the spring.

One or two churches are thriving- Baptist, Independent Charismatics, African Pentecostal, but many are collapsing, church buildings being turned into flats and pubs.

And even Pentecostal churches like AOG, Elim, Potter's House are struggling.

Indeed the Potter's House church folded a couple of years back.

You might enjoy this for a bit of reading.

The Comforter - The Omega Letter

 

[lismore]

You might enjoy this for a bit of reading.

The Comforter - The Omega Letter

thanks faulty, that was indeed interesting!

 

[hopeinGod]

Christians leave churches for any number of reasons including: growing wearing in well doing, having had their faith overthrown by false doctrine, disillusionment within the assembly, and more.

In the U.S., there is a movement by some believers to return to home gatherings because, as they have found, large churches tend to minister less to the needs of the individual and more toward the pockets of the leadership.

If there are Christians in Scotland still to be found, maybe it could work out for you to start a home group. If that's not possible, then you may want to move on where there are believers.

Where I live in the U.S., the streets and countrysides are saturated with churches, and yet I attend not one. Over the years, I've learned to study and rightly divide the Word, which has prepared me to discern downloaded sermons from numerous websites. Where I work there are 4200 employees, many of whom are Christians. We encourage one another in the things of God.

 

[Jacobs]

When I was young, 60 years ago, a handshake was as good as a signed contract. Honesty was the norm. Marriage was reverenced and divorce was highly frowned upon. In America, that was the norm for Christians and non-Christians alike.


Fast forward 60 years to present and what is it like now? Just the opposite! The “Christian” church has gone downhill morally at about the same pace as the unsaved world. Why? I believe the wicked media and also the doctrine of Calvinism, or license to sin, has played a major role. How often have we read or heard in the news of someone accused of murder, or a lesser charge, that’s reportedly running to his or her Calvinistic minister for counseling and help? (Please give me one example where Jesus set someone down on a rock and counseled them.) The divorce rate is as high in most “Christian” churches as it is with non believers and how many “Christian” couples do you know that’s “shacking up”?


A personal example of Calvinism in action - We let previously good friends who is an ordained Calvinist minister, his wife and 6 children live rent free in our 5 bedroom home for a year because they needed help. When it was necessary for us to move back in, we had to force them out. They stole approximately $2000 worth of personal items from us, left us with over $5000 worth of damages (labor excluded) and when we confronted them about it, didn’t even receive the slightest apology. Even worse, later we found out they left over $25,000 worth of damages at another house they lived in and were kicked out of. But they aren’t worried, they have their guaranteed eternally secure fire insurance.


Church attendance may be an indication of the “Great Falling Away” but I believe it goes much deeper than that. Do we know or care what Jesus actually taught? What kind of example are we to the unsaved world? If we’re as morally unjust as they are, then where’s our light and without light, are we really saved?

 

[Simon Peter]

When I was young, 60 years ago, a handshake was as good as a signed contract. Honesty was the norm. Marriage was reverenced and divorce was highly frowned upon. In America, that was the norm for Christians and non-Christians alike.


Fast forward 60 years to present and what is it like now? Just the opposite! The “Christian” church has gone downhill morally at about the same pace as the unsaved world. Why? I believe the wicked media and also the doctrine of Calvinism, or license to sin, has played a major role. How often have we read or heard in the news of someone accused of murder, or a lesser charge, that’s reportedly running to his or her Calvinistic minister for counseling and help? (Please give me one example where Jesus set someone down on a rock and counseled them.) The divorce rate is as high in most “Christian” churches as it is with non believers and how many “Christian” couples do you know that’s “shacking up”?


A personal example of Calvinism in action - We let previously good friends who is an ordained Calvinist minister, his wife and 6 children live rent free in our 5 bedroom home for a year because they needed help. When it was necessary for us to move back in, we had to force them out. They stole approximately $2000 worth of personal items from us, left us with over $5000 worth of damages (labor excluded) and when we confronted them about it, didn’t even receive the slightest apology. Even worse, later we found out they left over $25,000 worth of damages at another house they lived in and were kicked out of. But they aren’t worried, they have their guaranteed eternally secure fire insurance.


Church attendance may be an indication of the “Great Falling Away” but I believe it goes much deeper than that. Do we know or care what Jesus actually taught? What kind of example are we to the unsaved world? If we’re as morally unjust as they are, then where’s our light and without light, are we really saved?

Hi Jacobs,

Welcome to CF.

I completely agree that most western cultures have taken a serious turn for the worse in the last 60 years.

I'm sorry about your experience with that 'Calvinist Minister'. That must have been a horrible betrayal of your charity and love. But please don't now decide that Calvinism was behind the evil done to you and your family. I can point out to you many Arminian ministers who have also robbed and stolen from Christians.

One thing I have learned in life, is that regardless of what race, religion, creed, colour, nationality a person is, there are 'good' people and 'bad' people. However, it is true that certain beliefs do effect behavior; but Calvinism is not a license to sin, any more than being a Christian is! Do you sin just because your sins are forgiven? Of course not, most of us do the best we can to avoid sin regardless of Arminian or Calvinism leanings.

Calvinism has been around for 500 years (I am a descendant of 16th century Calvinists) so why in the last 60 years is Calvinism now responsible for moral decline?

Calvinism was a huge part of the Protestant Reformation, and our church history mostly observes a positive impact on the church and European society, not negative.

Counseling is just as prevalent in Arminianist churches as it is in Calvinist churches, so I'm not sure what you mean about 'Calvinist counseling'.

peace,
Simon

 

[Jacobs]

The way I see it, the church as we know it is not a very good light unto the world and it’s getting dimmer and dimmer. I believe the great falling away is happening before our eyes IF we’ll only wake up and see what’s happening around us.

I really didn’t intend to just pick on just Calvinists but all of us. The main question I am asking is what kind of witness are we to the world when we’re NO different than they are in their eyes? We lie, we steal, we commit adultery, we divorce, we remarry, & etc just like they do. Do we as the church need to clean up the sin in our lives or is it a case where a large majority of us in the pews are deceived by the enemy and don’t really know the Lord?

Jesus, our example, never counseled anyone but only told them to repent and sin no more.

II Timothy 3:1f

 

[hopeinGod]

It was written by David that the zeal of the Lord had eaten him up. That pretty much sums up what Christian life was for me in my earliest days. What managed to get in the way is an assortment of influences, among them, the Lord Himself.

We often fail to realize that the way up is down. The way we grow in the Lord is for the Lord to root out those things that need dug up. There may very well be a very deep root of bitterness or discord (or whatever) within a brother or sister that needs to be removed. And so the Lord will allow what is necessary to bring believers to the place He wants them to be.

Job said that he looked in front of himself and God wasn't there, behind him, and He was nowhere to be found, and in the end said, "Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him." Yes, the Lord is in the business of change through ways we may not be familiar with.

"He knoweth the way that I take and when He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." If there is one simple truth in this life it is that suffering is a part of all men's lives, even in the lives of believers, but God never does anything without a true purpose.

The world doesn't see any purpose in what they suffer, but for the believer, there must come the revelation that God will use suffering in His great redemption plan.

There's not been a lot of talk about suffering within the Church over the years, which is an error of great proportion in my opinion, for if all we see is God being only good, and that He only does good things, and that the Devil is the foremost progenitor of suffering, we miss a great truth found in Scripture.

1 Pet. 4:19, "Wherefore them that suffer according to the will of God..." Yes, there is a suffering that is according to the will of God!! And this is what is taking place today. The Lord is attempting to make changes within us, but instead we run around searching for experiences and prosperity. Maybe soon we'll submit to Him.

 

[lismore]

If there are Christians in Scotland still to be found, maybe it could work out for you to start a home group. If that's not possible, then you may want to move on where there are believers.
.

Hello Hope

Thanks for the kind reply.

I'm currently attending a Baptist Church which is growing, it's small by American standards but large by ours I think.

All around are churches that have closed. Christianity is on the ebb in this city. But think there's a stage at which the remaining believers must stay put and stand, otherwise the local light of the gospel will go out entirely.

I did know one or two charismatics who checked out to London in search of an easier time, But I think the Lord might want me to stand here.

God Bless

 

[Joe Guth]

From an Ammil perspective, your observations make sense.

 

[D2wing]

We should all be keenly aware of this issue and how we fit in. Secularism has not only taken over society it has taken over many church's. Evangelism, the lifeblood of churches not being done, true fellowship with love and answered prayer isn't happening. Not only in churches but in our personal lives. Who have you been a blessing to. In a cartoon in the 50's a character said "we have meet the enemy, he is us" I think it was Al Kapp.
Anyway God is saying turn to him in me.