The gospel was preached even to those who are DEAD

[tonychanyt]

1 Peter 3:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,

i.e., those who knew God and those who didn't

that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed [aorist indicative] to the spirits in prison, 20a because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared.

What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?

Peter continued the explanation in the next chapter, but then he switched to the present tense, 1 Peter 4:

4 With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you.

At this point, Peter addressed people who were alive at his time.

5 but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this is why the gospel was preached [Aorist Indicative] even to those who are dead, that though judged [Aorist Subjunctive] in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

When are the preaching and judging performed?

The aorists direct our thoughts to some definite occasion. Time or tense is not always in the past. They are done on the last day of a person's life, corresponding to the last day of the current creation for everyone.

Who are these dead people?

These dead people refer to:

1. The deceased patriarchs and the Old Testament saints. (Papists' Limbus)
2. The people who died in Noah's flood long ago.
3. Those who are alive but spiritually dead. (Amplified Bible)
4. The good Christians who died as martyrs.
5. All the dead and all will head to heaven eventually. (Origen, universal salvation)
6. Some dead people at the time. Some to heaven, others to hell.
7. A selected (or elected) group of dead people who never heard of the gospel when alive but would believe if they heard it.

I think options 6 and 7 are most likely.

 

[tonychanyt]

So, to understand you, correctly, by your study... You bypass the idea of a "Spirit Realm",

What do you mean? The spirit realm is real.

how? That seams loaded as a question, but I'm trying to ask you a question directly from my mind, on the matter, as my personal bias is within my question. I did read your writeup, but still don't quite know how to identify how you get to the idea that souls aren't fully conscious,

A soul is conscious when it is empowered by its associated spirit (breath of God).

when Christ preached to "Spirits/Souls of the Dead".

Where did you get the term "Souls of the Dead"?

You are a good brother. Feel free to follow up. I'll try to clarify.

 

[Grip Docility]

The spirit realm is real.

Could we call this... "Sheol"?

A soul is conscious when it is empowered by its associated spirit (breath of God).

Hmmm... okay... what if I simply used the word "Spirit", in place of soul. Would that be more accurate to what you would express dwells in "The Spirit Realm"?

Where did you get the term "Souls of the Dead"?

In discussion, I attempt to convey colloquialisms that exist, to ensure mutual understanding. I placed Spirits, but added another measure, to ensure that my intention would be followed.

You are a good brother. Feel free to follow up. I'll try to clarify.

As are you! Thank you for your patience! I attempt to keep dialouge short and sweet. I cry when it turns into a 4000 page reply!

 

[tonychanyt]

Could we call this... "Sheol"?

I would not, for precision. I would distinguish between the terms "sheol" and "spirit realm."

Hmmm... okay... what if I simply used the word "Spirit", in place of soul.

For precision, I would also distinguish between the terms "spirit" and "soul".

Would that be more accurate to what you would express dwells in "The Spirit Realm"?

Spiritual beings dwell in the spirit realm in reality.
The physical dead dwell in Sheol in metaphor.

The confusion comes when we mix angelic spiritual beings with human spirits.

In discussion, I attempt to convey colloquialisms that exist, to ensure mutual understanding.

In discussions, I tend to avoid colloquialisms and stick to more precise definitions.

 

[Grip Docility]

I would not, for precision. I would distinguish between the terms "sheol" and "spirit realm."

What would you make of these two verses, in reference to Sheol?

Jonah 2:2 I called to the Lord in my distress,​

and He answered me.​

I cried out for help in the belly of Sheol;​

You heard my voice.​

​

Matthew 12:39 ...... Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah, 40 because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights,[b] so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.​

For precision, I would also distinguish between the terms "spirit" and "soul".

This is well and fair, for precision's sake.

Spiritual beings dwell in the spirit realm in reality.
The physical dead dwell in Sheol in metaphor.

Could you expound on how you would express that "Sheol" is a metaphor?

The confusion comes when we mix angelic spiritual beings with human spirits.

So, you draw the conclusion that Jesus visited Angels and not Human Beings, in the versus from 1 Peter? The OP is clear in it's title.

"The gospel was preached even to those who are DEAD" Help! I'm dumb! Please break out the crayon and end my confusion.​

In discussions, I tend to avoid colloquialisms and stick to more precise definitions.

I respect this. I will avoid colloquialisms as much as possible, when we discuss matters. Thank you.

 

[tonychanyt]

What would you make of these two verses, in reference to Sheol?

Jonah 2:2 I called to the Lord in my distress,​

and He answered me.​

I cried out for help in the belly of Sheol;​

You heard my voice.​

​

Matthew 12:39 ...... Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah, 40 because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights,[b] so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.​

Nice combo. See Jonah's Sheol experience and Jesus' heart of the earth experience

Could you expound on how you would express that "Sheol" is a metaphor?

Good question. Perhaps it is not a metaphor. It could be interpreted literally as the physical grave in the collective sense. In some passages, however, it is used metaphorically and poetically.

So, you draw the conclusion that Jesus visited Angels and not Human Beings, in the versus from 1 Peter?

No.

The OP is clear in it's title.

"The gospel was preached even to those who are DEAD"​

The dead refers to 7 possible groups of humans.

Help! I'm dumb! Please break out the crayon and end my confusion.​

Please read my OP starting at the beginning. As soon as something is unclear, quote my unclear words, and I'll try to clarify. You are not the first person who has trouble understanding me. Ask my former students

P.S. I was a professor teaching AI stuff.

 

[CoreyD]

What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?

Peter continued the explanation in the next chapter, but then he switched to the present tense, 1 Peter 4:

Now, Peter was talking about people who were alive at his time.

Hey Tony.
I've never heard this before.
I've heard people say that Jesus preached to spirits of the dead, but we both know there are no living spirits of the dead.

The scripture at 1 Peter 3:8, does specifically say Jesus "preached to the spirits", while he was in the form of a spirit - "made alive in the Spirit".
So I am wondering how you got people to be spirits.

Can you please explain. Thanks.

When are the preaching and judging performed?

The aorists direct our thoughts to some definite occasion. Time or tense is not always in the past. They are done on the last day of a person's life, corresponding to the last day of the current creation for everyone.

I've never heard that before.
Hearing some new things here.
According to John 3:18, "the one not believing already has been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Jesus also said at John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

We can appreciate this, when we further consider 1 John 2:9-11
Is the brother that is "walking in darkness" judged?
1 John 3:15

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

The Bible helps us appreciate that judgment is taking place now. Also, preaching.
Matthew 25:31, 32 reads

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Based on how persons respond to Jesus brothers, and his work, a person is judged as either a sheep or goat.

Who are these dead people?

These dead people refer to:

1. The deceased patriarchs and the Old Testament saints. (Papists' Limbus)
2. The people who died in Noah's flood long ago.
3. Those who are alive but spiritually dead. (Amplified Bible)
4. The good Christians who died as martyrs.
5. All the dead and all will head to heaven eventually. (Origen, universal salvation)
6. Some dead people at the time. Some to heaven, others to hell.
7. A selected (or elected) group of dead people who never heard of the gospel when alive but would believe if they heard it.

I think options 6 and 7 are most likely.

I really appreciate your diligent efforts at studying the Bible Tony. Keep up your fine research.
The question you pose is answered quite simply from Peter himself, and the verses are self-explanatory.

1 Peter 3:4-6
In regard to these [the Gentiles (people of the nations) who walk in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.], they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
For this reason gar: for, indeed (a conjunc. used to express cause, explanation, inference or continuation) the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

These men of the nations are dead - spiritually dead.
The good news is being preached to them, that they might live according to God in the spirit - become alive (spiritually).

Is it not as simple as that? It's not complicated.

 

[tonychanyt]

The scripture at 1 Peter 3:8, does specifically say Jesus "preached to the spirits", while he was in the form of a spirit - "made alive in the Spirit".
So I am wondering how you got people to be spirits.

Where did I say that? Can you quote my words?

These men of the nations are dead - spiritually dead.
The good news is being preached to them, that they might live according to God in the spirit - become alive (spiritually).

Is it not as simple as that? It's not complicated.

That's interpretation #3 in the OP.

 

[CoreyD]

Where did I say that? Can you quote my words?

I misunderstood you? Great!

tonychanyt said...

What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?​

​

Peter continued the explanation in the next chapter, but then he switched to the present tense, 1 Peter 4:​

​

4 With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you.​

​

Now, Peter was talking about people who were alive at his time.​

The question "What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?" was followed by what looked like an answer, namely "Peter was talking about people who were alive at his time."
If you left the question open, I did not realize.

 

[tonychanyt]

The question "What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?" was followed by what looked like an answer, namely "Peter was talking about people who were alive at his time."

I changed the wording in the OP. Take another look.

If you left the question open,

Right.

 

[CoreyD]

I changed the wording in the OP. Take another look.

Right.

I appreciate your modesty Tony, but are you sure you wanted to do that, because it doesn't look any different, except that the links aren't correctly formatted. Sorry about that.

It may just be me, but when a question is posed, a person usually looks for the answer.
I wouldn't expect a question to be left hanging in the middle of a comment, without the answer being in there - either indirectly, by scriptural use, or a direct answer.
If it was going to remain unanswered, I would look for it at the end of the comments.

We humans tend to see in different "flavors" though, so only a few of us might see it that way.
Just a thought I had, on something you said earlier...

That's interpretation #3 in the OP.

What do you mean by interpretation?
Do you mean it's one interpretation of persons, rather than an explanation from the Bible?
What is your view, regarding the Bible giving its own explanation (interpretation)? Do you think we can get a clear explanation from the Bible, on topics within it - topics such as these?

 

[tonychanyt]

I appreciate your modesty Tony, but are you sure you wanted to do that, because it doesn't look any different, except that the links aren't correctly formatted.

Right. I corrected the format. Take another look. Suggest a wording. I'll consider it.

What do you mean by interpretation?

I listed 7 different interpretations by different people in the OP.

Do you mean it's one interpretation of persons, rather than an explanation from the Bible?

Both. Check out No prophecy of Scripture COMES from someone’s own interpretation

What is your view, regarding the Bible giving its own explanation (interpretation)?

Technically, people interpret texts.

Do you think we can get a clear explanation from the Bible, on topics within it - topics such as these?

Sure. Scripture interprets scripture. That means that the inspired writers of Scripture interpreted some particular already written scriptural scriptural passages. Interpretation requires an active agent to read and interpret.

Feel free to follow up. I will try to clarify.

 

[Alex1st.1066]

1 Peter 3:


i.e., those who knew God and those who didn't


What did Peter mean by "spirits in prison"?

Peter continued the explanation in the next chapter, but then he switched to the present tense, 1 Peter 4:


At this point, Peter addressed people who were alive at his time.


When are the preaching and judging performed?

The aorists direct our thoughts to some definite occasion. Time or tense is not always in the past. They are done on the last day of a person's life, corresponding to the last day of the current creation for everyone.

Who are these dead people?

These dead people refer to:

1. The deceased patriarchs and the Old Testament saints. (Papists' Limbus)
2. The people who died in Noah's flood long ago.
3. Those who are alive but spiritually dead. (Amplified Bible)
4. The good Christians who died as martyrs.
5. All the dead and all will head to heaven eventually. (Origen, universal salvation)
6. Some dead people at the time. Some to heaven, others to hell.
7. A selected (or elected) group of dead people who never heard of the gospel when alive but would believe if they heard it.

I think options 6 and 7 are most likely.

1 Peter 4: 4 Of course, your former friends are surprised when you no longer plunge into the flood of wild and destructive things they do. So they slander you. 5 But remember that they will have to face God, who stands ready to judge everyone, both the living and the dead. 6 That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit.