Shroud of Turin

[Diamond7]

This is the DNA on the shroud.

Is It a Fake? DNA Testing Deepens Mystery of Shroud of Turin

The Shroud of Turin may be an authentic relic of Jesus or a medieval fake, but a DNA analysis of dust from the shroud won't settle the debate.

www.livescience.com

 

[Philip_B]

"There is a pretty substantial amount of evidence on both sides," Farey said. "So the proper thing to do is to maintain an open mind at the moment."

 

[Diamond7]

"There is a pretty substantial amount of evidence on both sides,"

Forensic science is very advanced. There is plenty of evidence to show the shroud is real. There is also a head scarf that matches the shroud. They wrapped the body and the head separate. They did not even know what they had until cameras were invented. The shroud is like a photo negative. It was made with an energy unknown to science. Of course we know this is the resurrection power of God. Even the shroud is mentioned in the Bible and a forgery would be impossible. Not that it would matter. Even if the shroud was a work of art it points us to the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[d taylor]

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Only people who The Bible does not fill their need for God, would seek outside sources. That is funny thinking science can prove God is real, after lying about God's creation in so many areas.

 

[cradleGO]

This is the DNA on the shroud.

Is It a Fake? DNA Testing Deepens Mystery of Shroud of Turin

The Shroud of Turin may be an authentic relic of Jesus or a medieval fake, but a DNA analysis of dust from the shroud won't settle the debate.

www.livescience.com

View attachment 346860

That is an old source and not very useful. From better analysis (doing this from memory), the plant DNA (and human DNA) point to the flax/yarn from which the Shroud was made was grown in India, while the linen using that flax/yarn was a manufacture from the Holy Land. The weave is distinctive to the Holy Land. The 'face cloth' - actual use was to sop up blood per Jewish law - matches the Shroud, and was a set that Joseph of Arimathea bought as his grave goods. There is no image on the face cloth Sudarium of Oviedo. The 'veronica' story is likely a corruption of two Latin-Greek words.

I suggest those interested to search for "Shroud of Turin Conference 2017" in YT or just a search engine (Google). This will provide a look at the latest (in 2017) of the research plus detailed summaries of different aspects of research that is or has been done. Here a link to one of the presentations there discussing plant and human DNA (and pollen). They had some technical issues. Go about 1 minute 30 seconds in.

I am convinced that this is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus. I believe that God used natural means (did not violate the laws of nature), but did so in ways that humans cannot do. For example, modern physics postulates that there are other dimensions of reality. One explanation is that Jesus was pulled bodily into another dimension (Heaven) in a way we cannot understand, but in doing so, the image was imprinted on the Shroud by electrons in a known/knowable way. Another physicist suggests that neutrons from the resurrection event left 'residue' of charged/isotopic minerals in the image area that could be verified in a minimally destructive manner.

The blood pretty well rattled me. I only heard it when I reviewed the Conference materials. The blood on the Shroud is not smeared as it would normally be if any ordinary burial shroud were examined. Instead, a physicist noted that the blood was moved (translated) from the body to the Shroud just as it would appear on the body. And there are many blood stains, each corresponding to a wound on the body. No one could 'paint' the blood on the Shroud to match so many wounds. But the blood is why someone might feel that the Shroud is a fake. The blood is real. It is type AB. The mtDNA (female from the X chromosome) found in the image area of the Shroud is H2a2a1, a common Haplotype from the region. This is likely Mary's DNA type. And the blood is still red, with no explanation how that could be.

The dust by the way - mentioned in the 2015 video - is identified as being from Jerusalem, and specifically near the Damascus Gate. Impressive.

The Shroud is a detailed notice to humanity that Jesus was who He said He was. Without modern physics there would be a great deal of skepticism even if all else was known, Today is the time that those who will see, will see.

Of all the relics that are venerated (not worshiped), the Shroud should be the first. But more than that, it needs to be understood for what it is.

 

[AlexB23]

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Only people who The Bible does not fill their need for God, would seek outside sources. That is funny thinking science can prove God is real, after lying about God's creation in so many areas.

Well, look at this verse. Even if the shroud is fake, there are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle.

Psalm 111:2 "Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them."

This verse expresses admiration for God's great creation and works. Scientists engage with these works through their research and discovery. Faith and science complement each other, as both can acknowledge God's presence and power in the natural world. Scientific inquiry can be driven by a belief in a deeper meaning to the universe and a recognition of God's involvement. The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation for and connection to the LORD.


This 9 minute video talks about type AB blood discovered on Eucharistic miracles (ages 15+ because of blood):

 

[cradleGO]

Well, look at this verse. Even if the shroud is fake, there are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle.

Psalm 111:2 "Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them."

This verse expresses admiration for God's great creation and works. Scientists engage with these works through their research and discovery. Faith and science complement each other, as both can acknowledge God's presence and power in the natural world. Scientific inquiry can be driven by a belief in a deeper meaning to the universe and a recognition of God's involvement. The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation for and connection to the LORD.


This 9 minute video talks about type AB blood discovered on Eucharistic miracles:

Let's not get side-tracked with this Roman Catholic belief. The topic is the Shroud of Turin.

 

[AlexB23]

Let's not get side-tracked with this Roman Catholic belief. The topic is the Shroud of Turin.

I am sorry about that. Just wanted to show how science and religion go well together.

 

[Diamond7]

Even if the shroud is fake

It actually is more amazing if it were a so called "fake". That would make it a work of art that no one can duplicate.

 

[AlexB23]

It actually is more amazing if it were a so called "fake". That would make it a work of art that no one can duplicate.

True that.

 

[cradleGO]

There is more and more that intrigues. The 2017 study I provided mentions a certain NASA analyzer that found that the image provided 3D data.

But there is even more. Photographic study is mostly based on the 1978 Shroud analysis. But there was a study on the 1930's photographic plates. These are a colloidal suspension, giving a greater depth of field. The link below discusses this. It shows that the body was moving - the Body was breathing - at the time the image was made, in what we would call a strobe effect - pulses of energy over an interval of time.

It shows that Jesus was wearing a 'caleçon' - a type of undergarment (pants), with a belt made of snakeskin from snake of the region. Jesus was not naked on the cross.* There were Tefillin (תְּפִלִּין) - a pair of black leather boxes containing Hebrew parchment scrolls - found on Jesus. (A set includes two—one for the head and one for the arm. Each consists of three main components: the scrolls, the box and the strap.) The arm strap was broken as would be expected when Jesus fell with the cross. The movement and strobe effect explain the one arm appearing too long.

Much is made of the nails moving, reflecting that the Body was moving and displacing them from their prior positions.

The study showed that the light came from the body. Fascinating. There was an amulet and two bracelets. One can ask how is it these weren't stripped from Him when He was scourged? Keep in mind that Pilate wanted to scourge Him and release Him figuring that would satisfy the Temple authorities. So the scourging crew couldn't rob Him. **

When the people demanded Pilate crucify Him, it is likely the crucifixion detail were specialists and didn't know about His belongings that might have been apparent in the scourging room, other than His fine robe. The amulet and all were in under his 'crown'.

The video uses unfamiliar terms to most, I suspect. caleçon we mentioned above, also Orthogonal and various other physics and optics terms. Go with the flow and get the overview at first viewing. Note that this or a similar video has been issued several times. If the link is dead, then you should be able to find its replacement at the publisher's website [shown below].

/* There is a 10th century icon depicting the Crucifixion with Jesus wearing a caleçon and a belt.
/** Pure speculation but I suspect that the Temple authorities bribed the scourging crew to give Jesus an extra measure of pain. He effectively was killed during the scourging, all but. Asphyxiation is the normal cause for death for a crucifixion. Jesus died of blood loss and associated effects of the scourging. Website of author