LDS Saved or Saved?

[Rescued One]

You really make silly and unfounded statements like this. Do you sit up all night, thinking of these statements?

God is certainly not helpless. Just because he doesn't save everyone in the Celestial Kingdom does not make Him helpless.
As far as His purposes, we certainly do not condemn any of His purposes, so you will have to make up a different statement about member of the Church of Jesus Christ.
Try again.

Mormons have an entirely different view of God's purposes. God's purpose is not to have humans become Gods.

 

[He is the way]

Per Mormonism, you must keep all the laws and commandments and ordinances that Joseph Smith commanded. The Bible is an insufficient guide to eternal life in your religion.

"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

Mormon scripture criticizes the Bible:
1 Nephi 13
29 And after these plain and precious things were ataken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the [Bible]book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
1 Nephi 13

1 Nephi 13:8 Behold the gold, and the silver… and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church

In 1510, Martin Luther visited Rome. As a German monk, he was associated with a group of pious priests who took their stewardship seriously. What he saw in Rome shocked him:

“The abysmal ignorance, frivolity, and levity of the Italian priests stupefied him. They… were flippantly unbelieving and would address the sacrament saying, ‘Bread art thou and bread thou wilt remain, and wine art thou and wine thou wilt remain.’ (The doctrine at the time was that the bread and wine actually turned into the body and blood of Christ by a process called transubstantiation. The priests were mocking this doctrine) To a devout believer from the unsophisticated Northland such disclosures were truly shocking...

[Hearing] of the immorality of the Roman clergy… [Luther wondered] if there were a hell Rome was built upon it… the district of ill fame was frequented by ecclesiastics (priests). He heard there were those who considered themselves virtuous because they confined themselves to women.” (RH Bainton, Here I Stand: A Life of Martin Luther, [Peabody Mass., Hendrickson Publishers, 1950], p. 31)
1 Nephi 13 | Gospel Doctrine

James E. Talmage recorded the importance of councils held later to determine what should be included as canon:

"In addition to individual testimony we have that of ecclesiastical councils and official bodies, by whom the question of authenticity [of the books of the New Testament] was tried and decided. In this connection may be mentioned the Council of Nice, 325 A.D.; the Council of Laodicea, 363 A.D.; the Council of Hippo, 393 A.D.; the third and the sixth Councils of Carthage, 397 and 419 A.D.

"Since the date last named, no dispute as to the authenticity of the New Testament has claimed much attention. The present is too late a time and the separating distance too vast to encourage the reopening of the question. The New Testament must be accepted for what it claims to be; and though, perhaps, many precious parts have been suppressed or lost, while some corruptions of the texts may have crept in, and errors have been inadvertently introduced through the incapacity of translators, the volume as a whole must be admitted as authentic and credible, and as an essential part of the Holy Scriptures." (A Study of the Articles of Faith, James E. Talmage, p. 248)
1 Nephi 13 | Gospel Doctrine

Requirements for Eternal Life (according to Mormonism):

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us all the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1.
We must be baptized.
. 2.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
. 4.
We must receive the temple endowment.
. 5.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:

1. Love God and our neighbors.
2. Keep the commandments.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
9. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
10. Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 1979, and 1981, Chapter 47, Exaltation, p. 291-292

There are actually more requirements.

“For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for the blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted before the foundations of the world. (D&C 132:5.)”
Elray L. Christiansen, General Conference, Oct. 1972

• Men gain eternal life through the oath and covenant of the priesthood, D&C 84:33–42.
• All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, and oaths not sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise end when men die, D&C 132:7.

Oath

You said: "Requirements for Eternal Life (according to Mormonism):" Then you go on to give the requirements for exaltation.

I happen to know the requirements for eternal life, Jesus Christ made it very clear what they are:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 

[He is the way]

Mormons have an entirely different view of God's purposes. God's purpose is not to have humans become Gods.

As members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, we take the Biblical view of God's purpose for us:

(Old Testament | Psalms 4:3)

3 But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

(New Testament | 1 Timothy 6:11)

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

(New Testament | Titus 2:11 - 14)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

 

[Rescued One]

You said: "Requirements for Eternal Life (according to Mormonism):" Then you go on to give the requirements for exaltation.

I happen to know the requirements for eternal life, Jesus Christ made it very clear what they are:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Mormons only cherry pick the Bible. You can ignore all of my post, but that doesn't change the facts of Mormonism that I listed therein.

“The Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on this Earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than any other book.”
- Joseph Smith

 

[He is the way]

Mormons only cherry pick the Bible. You can ignore all of my post, but that doesn't change the facts of Mormonism that I listed therein.

“The Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on this Earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than any other book.”
- Joseph Smith

The things you listed are for exaltation not eternal life. Jesus Christ taught the requirements for eternal life. I do not ignore your posts, I try my best to answer all of the ones directed to me. I could not post all of the Bible, but I did post the necessary scripture to prove my point. Here is another one:

(New Testament | Matthew 19:16 - 19)

16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Ran77]

Mormons have an entirely different view of God's purposes. God's purpose is not to have humans become Gods.

Other than scriptures verses, which I don't see any quoted, how is it that any mortal can speak to God's purpose? Isn't His understanding well beyond our own? Shouldn't we leave it to God to speak about His purpose for humans?

 

[Andrewn]

“The Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on this Earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than any other book.”
- Joseph Smith

LDS cannot believe this bec they actually made changes in the BOM:

Changes to Latter-day Scripture

 

[He is the way]

LDS cannot believe this bec they actually made changes in the BOM:

Changes to Latter-day Scripture

It didn't say that the Book of Mormon was perfect. Did you see the words "most correct"?
(Book of Mormon | Preface Title Page:2)

And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment–seat of Christ.

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons have an entirely different view of God's purposes. God's purpose is not to have humans become Gods.

Then why does God want us to:
Be as holy as God is. Can we be? The answer is yes. 1 Peter 1:16
Be as perfect as God is. Can we be? The answer is yes. Matthew 5:48
Be as godly as God is. Can we be? The answer is yes. 2 Peter 1:3
Be as divine as God is. Can we have it? The answer is yes. 2 Peter 1:4
Be as merciful, as kind, as humble, as meek, as longsuffering as God is. Can we be. The answer is yes. Colossians 3:12
Be as righteous, godly, faithful, love, patience, meekness as God is. Can we do it.
The answer is yes. 1 Timothy 6:11
Endure to the end as God does. Can we do it? The answer is yes. Mark 13:13
We must overcome this world and sit with Jesus in his throne. Can we do it? The answer is yes. Revelation 3:21

Why does God want us to be as He is?

 

[Rescued One]

Then why does God want us to:
Be as holy as God is.

Repentance from sin will not make you a god. We are created beings.
It HIS work in us that gives us the desire and ability to repent.

Can we be? The answer is yes. 1 Peter 1:16

Holiness is something God imparts to the "sheep." Humans(sheep) don't become uncreated gods.

Be as perfect as God is. Can we be? The answer is yes. Matthew 5:48

Hebrews 10:10, 14
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Be as godly as God is. Can we be? The answer is yes. 2 Peter 1:3

It is all GOD's doing!

2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:3
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 3Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Be as divine as God is. Can we have it? The answer is yes. 2 Peter 1:4

2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Once again, the good that we are able to do is a blessing from God.

Be as merciful, as kind, as humble, as meek, as longsuffering as God is. Can we be. The answer is yes. Colossians 3:12
Be as righteous, godly, faithful, love, patience, meekness as God is. Can we do it.
The answer is yes. 1 Timothy 6:11
Endure to the end as God does. Can we do it? The answer is yes. Mark 13:13
We must overcome this world and sit with Jesus in his throne. Can we do it? The answer is yes. Revelation 3:21

Why does God want us to be as He is?

We ought to be very grateful that God has chosen to make us grateful for His absolute mercy in bringing us to Christ! We haven't made ourselves righteous.

Romans 12:3
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 4:7
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

 

[Rescued One]

LDS cannot believe this bec they actually made changes in the BOM:

Changes to Latter-day Scripture

And later, Joseph Smith added the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.

 

[Rescued One]

The things you listed are for exaltation not eternal life.

You are now qualified as an uninformed Mormon or an apostate.

Exaltation and eternal life are one and the same in Mormonism.

 

[Peter1000]

Repentance from sin will not make you a god. We are created beings.
It HIS work in us that gives us the desire and ability to repent.



Holiness is something God imparts to the "sheep." Humans(sheep) don't become uncreated gods.



Hebrews 10:10, 14
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



It is all GOD's doing!

2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:3
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; 3Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.



2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Once again, the good that we are able to do is a blessing from God.




We ought to be very grateful that God has chosen to make us grateful for His absolute mercy in bringing us to Christ! We haven't made ourselves righteous.

Romans 12:3
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 4:7
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

View attachment 279449

It is His work in us....
God imparts....
Through Christs offereing we are make perfect.
According to his divine power....
God makes us righteous.

Yes, it is according to His good pleasure that we be just like Him.

No matter how it happens, if we do what we are suppose to do, God will do the rest and I believe it is according to his divine power and his pleasure to make us just like him.

You say it is all God, I say it is mostly God, but in partnership with us, that according to his good pleasure he makes those who are worthy to be just like him.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you worthy to be glorified in Christ, making us as he is?

 

[Rescued One]

It is His work in us....
God imparts....
Through Christs offereing we are make perfect.
According to his divine power....
God makes us righteous.

Yes, it is according to His good pleasure that we be just like Him.

No matter how it happens, if we do what we are suppose to do, God will do the rest and I believe it is according to his divine power and his pleasure to make us just like him.

You say it is all God, I say it is mostly God, but in partnership with us, that according to his good pleasure he makes those who are worthy to be just like him.
2 Thessalonians 1:11-12
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you worthy to be glorified in Christ, making us as he is?

No created being will ever become a God except in his own delusional mind.

 

[He is the way]

You are now qualified as an uninformed Mormon or an apostate.

Exaltation and eternal life are one and the same in Mormonism.

No they are not.

 

[He is the way]

No created being will ever become a God except in his own delusional mind.

You made that up.

 

[Andrewn]

Why does God want us to be as He is?

God wants us to be like Him. This is true and you've shown it in many verses, and Christians agree.

The difference is in the ontology of God. LDS lower God into the same nature as ours. To you, He is an exalted human being from a previous creation. And you elevate human beings ontologically to uncreated spirits that always existed. This is the basic problem in your thinking.

When the Bible talks about being like God in character, this says nothing about becoming like Him ontologically, which is impossible. Actually, crazy to think of.

 

[He is the way]

God wants us to be like Him. This is true and you've shown it in many verses, and Christians agree.

The difference is in the ontology of God. LDS lower God into the same nature as ours. To you, He is an exalted human being from a previous creation. And you elevate human beings ontologically to uncreated spirits that always existed. This is the basic problem in your thinking.

When the Bible talks about being like God in character, this says nothing about becoming like Him ontologically, which is impossible. Actually, crazy to think of.

You do not believe that God is powerful enough to make His children equal to Himself? I believe that He is that powerful.:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[Andrewn]

You do not believe that God is powerful enough to make His children equal to Himself? I believe that He is that powerful.:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I don't see a way to the bridge our gap in understanding this. You rely on the revelations of JS while I have the traditional / orthodox understanding which never says that people could become Gods having their own worlds and giving birth to other people to worship them.

We'll just have to incubate these ideas in our thoughts and ask the one true God for wisdom.

 

[He is the way]

I don't see a way to the bridge our gap in understanding this. You rely on the revelations of JS while I have the traditional / orthodox understanding which never says that people could become Gods having their own worlds and giving birth to other people to worship them.

We'll just have to incubate these ideas in our thoughts and ask the one true God for wisdom.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that we can not be equal to God, in fact it asks to belike Him or equal to Him. I am wondering where the orthodox understanding came from.

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: