Salvation, God's Will and My Will

Bob8102

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I post this in "Struggles by Non-Christians" because it refers to my decades long struggle to know whether or not I am a Christian. I was still in doubt as of last Tuesday, so please don't say this is irrelevant to "Struggles by Non-Christians."

Through the months of July and August, I was much more often thinking I’m saved than doubting. On Tuesday, August 30, I made a decision. I said that from now on, 24/7, I’m going to start treating my uncertainty about salvation as the OCD thought that it is, according to the experts, and to stop reacting to it. A big part of my problem has been that I will sincerely surrender to Christ, then seconds later (usually only a couple seconds later), I will either take back the throne of my life for myself, and/or simply lose concentration on Jesus. This has been happening many times per day for many years. I have long been bothered by these two-second conversions: did I really get converted/saved if my commitment only lasted two seconds? In relatively recent times, I have often been praying to Jesus, “I may waiver but You do not.” I’ve come to decide that some of my conversions were sincere and real, but I have a wavering faith. Having a combination of religious OCD and wavering faith has kept me in “the perfect storm” for a long time. I now believe that on some occasion in the past, I sincerely trusted Christ, then my faith wavered away after a second or so, but that He saved me according to His promises. Since Tuesday, August 30, I have committed to treating my doubts as OCD intrusive thoughts which can be ignored.

My next concern is God’s will versus my will. One or more people in my Thursday morning Bible study often pray, “Your will be done, not mine.” I realize I have had a long distrust of God’s will. I am reasonably intelligent; can’t I figure out my path for myself? What are our brains for, anyway? But the more I read the Bible and the more I hang around Christians and hear preaching, the more verses like the following jump out at me: “Lean not unto your own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct they paths.” I have had a confusion in figuring out the line between my will and God’s will. Gospel tracts often say, “God has a wonderful plan for your life.” But I’m reasonably intelligent and *I* have a wonderful plan for my life! I have come up with a number of ideas on my own for what I want to do, and these include ideas for helping to advance God’s Kingdom. I am now learning the hard way that because something seems to me a good idea does not mean it’s really going to work out if I try to carry it out.

Let me give two major examples of ideas that were intended to advance God’s Kingdom. One idea I have had was to get together with other Christians and found one or more “All Night Christian Clubs.” The idea would be to start a club that would be open all night for (especially young) night owls. There would be entertainment, but no drugs or alcohol. The entertainment would be musical bands that would play both popular Christian and popular, decent, secular music. The secular music would be intended to be an attraction to the non-believers. Every once in a while, between songs, someone would get up on stage and share the gospel. I got very excited about this idea and began thinking of some of the songs that might be played. I shared the idea with a few people. A couple people had positive responses but most had negative or no responses. One consideration is that everybody is distracted by COVID right now and this is not the time to start such a thing. And the economy is bad, meaning no one would be interested in investing in or donating to the project. I have finally shelved this idea, figuring God is not behind it.

Another idea was to start a Biblical Astrophysics Journal. I am not a scientist, but I can read and write and could act as a science journalist. I have come to be convinced, from my reading and thinking, that the Bible is literally the Word of God and that it means what it says as taken in the most straightforward manner, playing no interpretation games with it. I used to not take the idea that the Bible is the Word of God very seriously when I believed what the public schools and mainstream media teach. They teach that recent, man-generated ideas of origins and natural history are to be taken as fact. I, like many people and including most scientists, believed in what I was taught by the “system.” I heard claims about God and Jesus, including the claims that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead, and considered there to be a possibility that these claims are true. But the claim that the Bible Is the Word of God I could not really believe because I thought science had disproved Genesis. Then, as a teen or as an adult, I got exposed to some counter-evolutionary literature (pun intended). Once I realized that there were knowledgeable people who disbelieved the theory of evolution and saw some of the evidence that they presented, I changed my mind and decided that the Bible is the Word of God. But for years after deciding this, I still believed what mainstream scientists assert about the origin and history of the universe. I tried, in my mind, to reconcile the Big Bang and old universe claim with Genesis. I eventually saw that the two histories are irreconcilable. I decided that since I have come to believe that the Bible Is the Word of God, then origin and history of the universe assertions by the mainstream scientific community must be wrong. Having been interested in science since childhood, I kept reading. I came to see major flaws in the Big Bang theory. Eventually, I wrote my own treatise called “Big Bang Busted.” This is available on my website www.cosministry.com. If you want to look at this website, please do so on a desktop PC or laptop, not on a mobile device. Also, the “Discussion” link is now inoperable because I am no longer maintaining the website. Because of things happening in the world of physics and astrophysics, I have decided the time is ripe for a Biblical Astrophysics Journal. The Big Bang theory is scientifically refutable. Mainstream scientists say that because their theories about how the universe operates do not match real observations and data, 95% of the universe is missing and cannot be detected by known means. They label this missing matter as “dark matter.” A recent experiment at Fermilab, a national particle physics laboratory, may indicate that the standard model of particle physics needs revamping. An article on MSN recently was entitled, “The Big Bang Theory Has Been Debunked?” It said that because the latest observations by the new James Webb Telescope show that what are officially classified as “young” stars exist in what are distant galaxies that are classified as “old,” many astronomers are realizing that what they have long believed about the history of the cosmos might be all wrong. So, I came up with the idea of starting a Biblical Astrophysics Journal which would keep tabs on these kinds of things, and also print papers by young-universe, creationist scientists. I put up a website about this journal idea and advertised it. But I have gotten very few responses from interested individuals and have decided God is not behind this idea, either.

I also have my own career and marriage plans plotted out in front of me. But if God is not in agreement with those, either…

Oswald Chambers stated that the good is always the enemy of the best. Things that seem good to us are not necessarily God’s best will for us as individuals, and may distract us from doing God’s will. Today, I have started praying that to God: “I realize that the good can be the enemy of the best.”
 

Tolworth John

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, I’m going to start treating my uncertainty about salvation as the OCD thought that it is, according to the experts, and to stop reacting to it.

May I suggest that you look at the web site 25 tips for successfully treating your OCD.

It has advice on dealing with intrusive thoughts.


I also have my own career and marriage plans plotted out in front of me. But if God is not in agreement with those, either…

You've suggested a couple of good ideas that need work on them.
The nightclub idea, where would you hold it? Have you asked young people you know whether they would go to such a place and how much would they be prepared to pay for admission. A big turn off would be the no alcohol rule.
Quite likely a sponsor would be needed to meet the cost of top acts.

There are already several Christian science organisation, biologos, answrsingenesis and creation.com, where would your magerzine fit inbetween these groups?

In life God wants us to live for him where ever we end up.
 
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eleos1954

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I post this in "Struggles by Non-Christians" because it refers to my decades long struggle to know whether or not I am a Christian. I was still in doubt as of last Tuesday, so please don't say this is irrelevant to "Struggles by Non-Christians."

Through the months of July and August, I was much more often thinking I’m saved than doubting. On Tuesday, August 30, I made a decision. I said that from now on, 24/7, I’m going to start treating my uncertainty about salvation as the OCD thought that it is, according to the experts, and to stop reacting to it. A big part of my problem has been that I will sincerely surrender to Christ, then seconds later (usually only a couple seconds later), I will either take back the throne of my life for myself, and/or simply lose concentration on Jesus. This has been happening many times per day for many years. I have long been bothered by these two-second conversions: did I really get converted/saved if my commitment only lasted two seconds? In relatively recent times, I have often been praying to Jesus, “I may waiver but You do not.” I’ve come to decide that some of my conversions were sincere and real, but I have a wavering faith. Having a combination of religious OCD and wavering faith has kept me in “the perfect storm” for a long time. I now believe that on some occasion in the past, I sincerely trusted Christ, then my faith wavered away after a second or so, but that He saved me according to His promises. Since Tuesday, August 30, I have committed to treating my doubts as OCD intrusive thoughts which can be ignored.

My next concern is God’s will versus my will. One or more people in my Thursday morning Bible study often pray, “Your will be done, not mine.” I realize I have had a long distrust of God’s will. I am reasonably intelligent; can’t I figure out my path for myself? What are our brains for, anyway? But the more I read the Bible and the more I hang around Christians and hear preaching, the more verses like the following jump out at me: “Lean not unto your own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct they paths.” I have had a confusion in figuring out the line between my will and God’s will. Gospel tracts often say, “God has a wonderful plan for your life.” But I’m reasonably intelligent and *I* have a wonderful plan for my life! I have come up with a number of ideas on my own for what I want to do, and these include ideas for helping to advance God’s Kingdom. I am now learning the hard way that because something seems to me a good idea does not mean it’s really going to work out if I try to carry it out.

Let me give two major examples of ideas that were intended to advance God’s Kingdom. One idea I have had was to get together with other Christians and found one or more “All Night Christian Clubs.” The idea would be to start a club that would be open all night for (especially young) night owls. There would be entertainment, but no drugs or alcohol. The entertainment would be musical bands that would play both popular Christian and popular, decent, secular music. The secular music would be intended to be an attraction to the non-believers. Every once in a while, between songs, someone would get up on stage and share the gospel. I got very excited about this idea and began thinking of some of the songs that might be played. I shared the idea with a few people. A couple people had positive responses but most had negative or no responses. One consideration is that everybody is distracted by COVID right now and this is not the time to start such a thing. And the economy is bad, meaning no one would be interested in investing in or donating to the project. I have finally shelved this idea, figuring God is not behind it.

Another idea was to start a Biblical Astrophysics Journal. I am not a scientist, but I can read and write and could act as a science journalist. I have come to be convinced, from my reading and thinking, that the Bible is literally the Word of God and that it means what it says as taken in the most straightforward manner, playing no interpretation games with it. I used to not take the idea that the Bible is the Word of God very seriously when I believed what the public schools and mainstream media teach. They teach that recent, man-generated ideas of origins and natural history are to be taken as fact. I, like many people and including most scientists, believed in what I was taught by the “system.” I heard claims about God and Jesus, including the claims that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead, and considered there to be a possibility that these claims are true. But the claim that the Bible Is the Word of God I could not really believe because I thought science had disproved Genesis. Then, as a teen or as an adult, I got exposed to some counter-evolutionary literature (pun intended). Once I realized that there were knowledgeable people who disbelieved the theory of evolution and saw some of the evidence that they presented, I changed my mind and decided that the Bible is the Word of God. But for years after deciding this, I still believed what mainstream scientists assert about the origin and history of the universe. I tried, in my mind, to reconcile the Big Bang and old universe claim with Genesis. I eventually saw that the two histories are irreconcilable. I decided that since I have come to believe that the Bible Is the Word of God, then origin and history of the universe assertions by the mainstream scientific community must be wrong. Having been interested in science since childhood, I kept reading. I came to see major flaws in the Big Bang theory. Eventually, I wrote my own treatise called “Big Bang Busted.” This is available on my website www.cosministry.com. If you want to look at this website, please do so on a desktop PC or laptop, not on a mobile device. Also, the “Discussion” link is now inoperable because I am no longer maintaining the website. Because of things happening in the world of physics and astrophysics, I have decided the time is ripe for a Biblical Astrophysics Journal. The Big Bang theory is scientifically refutable. Mainstream scientists say that because their theories about how the universe operates do not match real observations and data, 95% of the universe is missing and cannot be detected by known means. They label this missing matter as “dark matter.” A recent experiment at Fermilab, a national particle physics laboratory, may indicate that the standard model of particle physics needs revamping. An article on MSN recently was entitled, “The Big Bang Theory Has Been Debunked?” It said that because the latest observations by the new James Webb Telescope show that what are officially classified as “young” stars exist in what are distant galaxies that are classified as “old,” many astronomers are realizing that what they have long believed about the history of the cosmos might be all wrong. So, I came up with the idea of starting a Biblical Astrophysics Journal which would keep tabs on these kinds of things, and also print papers by young-universe, creationist scientists. I put up a website about this journal idea and advertised it. But I have gotten very few responses from interested individuals and have decided God is not behind this idea, either.

I also have my own career and marriage plans plotted out in front of me. But if God is not in agreement with those, either…

Oswald Chambers stated that the good is always the enemy of the best. Things that seem good to us are not necessarily God’s best will for us as individuals, and may distract us from doing God’s will. Today, I have started praying that to God: “I realize that the good can be the enemy of the best.”

All of us have intrusive thoughts .... persons with OCD the thoughts seem to create more difficulty in that person that has OCD because evidentially OCD is a obsessive state of mind ... nothing necessarily wrong with that if the focus is on the Love of the Lord.

All of us need to keep our focus on the Love of God ... that is a good obsession to have and to remain in.

May the Lord help all of us to stay focused on Him. Amen!
 
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Bob8102

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May I suggest that you look at the web site 25 tips for successfully treating your OCD.

It has advice on dealing with intrusive thoughts.




You've suggested a couple of good ideas that need work on them.
The nightclub idea, where would you hold it? Have you asked young people you know whether they would go to such a place and how much would they be prepared to pay for admission. A big turn off would be the no alcohol rule.
Quite likely a sponsor would be needed to meet the cost of top acts.

There are already several Christian science organisation, biologos, answrsingenesis and creation.com, where would your magerzine fit inbetween these groups?

In life God wants us to live for him where ever we end up.

"There are already several Christian science organisation, biologos, answrsingenesis and creation.com, where would your magerzine fit inbetween these groups?"

I realize that there might be no need for such a journal. It's just that in the mainstream science publications world, there are many specialized journals. One of the things that I envisioned happening was, say, a non-believer scanning the magazine section at a bookstore and noticing the journal title. He or she might assume the Bible is myth but be curious enough to pick up the magazine and look inside for a few moments. The experience might plant a seed in their mind.
 
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By_the_Book

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I post this in "Struggles by Non-Christians" because it refers to my decades long struggle to know whether or not I am a Christian. I was still in doubt as of last Tuesday, so please don't say this is irrelevant to "Struggles by Non-Christians."

Through the months of July and August, I was much more often thinking I’m saved than doubting. On Tuesday, August 30, I made a decision. I said that from now on, 24/7, I’m going to start treating my uncertainty about salvation as the OCD thought that it is, according to the experts, and to stop reacting to it. A big part of my problem has been that I will sincerely surrender to Christ, then seconds later (usually only a couple seconds later), I will either take back the throne of my life for myself, and/or simply lose concentration on Jesus. This has been happening many times per day for many years. I have long been bothered by these two-second conversions: did I really get converted/saved if my commitment only lasted two seconds? In relatively recent times, I have often been praying to Jesus, “I may waiver but You do not.” I’ve come to decide that some of my conversions were sincere and real, but I have a wavering faith. Having a combination of religious OCD and wavering faith has kept me in “the perfect storm” for a long time. I now believe that on some occasion in the past, I sincerely trusted Christ, then my faith wavered away after a second or so, but that He saved me according to His promises. Since Tuesday, August 30, I have committed to treating my doubts as OCD intrusive thoughts which can be ignored.

My next concern is God’s will versus my will. One or more people in my Thursday morning Bible study often pray, “Your will be done, not mine.” I realize I have had a long distrust of God’s will. I am reasonably intelligent; can’t I figure out my path for myself? What are our brains for, anyway? But the more I read the Bible and the more I hang around Christians and hear preaching, the more verses like the following jump out at me: “Lean not unto your own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct they paths.” I have had a confusion in figuring out the line between my will and God’s will. Gospel tracts often say, “God has a wonderful plan for your life.” But I’m reasonably intelligent and *I* have a wonderful plan for my life! I have come up with a number of ideas on my own for what I want to do, and these include ideas for helping to advance God’s Kingdom. I am now learning the hard way that because something seems to me a good idea does not mean it’s really going to work out if I try to carry it out.

Let me give two major examples of ideas that were intended to advance God’s Kingdom. One idea I have had was to get together with other Christians and found one or more “All Night Christian Clubs.” The idea would be to start a club that would be open all night for (especially young) night owls. There would be entertainment, but no drugs or alcohol. The entertainment would be musical bands that would play both popular Christian and popular, decent, secular music. The secular music would be intended to be an attraction to the non-believers. Every once in a while, between songs, someone would get up on stage and share the gospel. I got very excited about this idea and began thinking of some of the songs that might be played. I shared the idea with a few people. A couple people had positive responses but most had negative or no responses. One consideration is that everybody is distracted by COVID right now and this is not the time to start such a thing. And the economy is bad, meaning no one would be interested in investing in or donating to the project. I have finally shelved this idea, figuring God is not behind it.

Another idea was to start a Biblical Astrophysics Journal. I am not a scientist, but I can read and write and could act as a science journalist. I have come to be convinced, from my reading and thinking, that the Bible is literally the Word of God and that it means what it says as taken in the most straightforward manner, playing no interpretation games with it. I used to not take the idea that the Bible is the Word of God very seriously when I believed what the public schools and mainstream media teach. They teach that recent, man-generated ideas of origins and natural history are to be taken as fact. I, like many people and including most scientists, believed in what I was taught by the “system.” I heard claims about God and Jesus, including the claims that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead, and considered there to be a possibility that these claims are true. But the claim that the Bible Is the Word of God I could not really believe because I thought science had disproved Genesis. Then, as a teen or as an adult, I got exposed to some counter-evolutionary literature (pun intended). Once I realized that there were knowledgeable people who disbelieved the theory of evolution and saw some of the evidence that they presented, I changed my mind and decided that the Bible is the Word of God. But for years after deciding this, I still believed what mainstream scientists assert about the origin and history of the universe. I tried, in my mind, to reconcile the Big Bang and old universe claim with Genesis. I eventually saw that the two histories are irreconcilable. I decided that since I have come to believe that the Bible Is the Word of God, then origin and history of the universe assertions by the mainstream scientific community must be wrong. Having been interested in science since childhood, I kept reading. I came to see major flaws in the Big Bang theory. Eventually, I wrote my own treatise called “Big Bang Busted.” This is available on my website www.cosministry.com. If you want to look at this website, please do so on a desktop PC or laptop, not on a mobile device. Also, the “Discussion” link is now inoperable because I am no longer maintaining the website. Because of things happening in the world of physics and astrophysics, I have decided the time is ripe for a Biblical Astrophysics Journal. The Big Bang theory is scientifically refutable. Mainstream scientists say that because their theories about how the universe operates do not match real observations and data, 95% of the universe is missing and cannot be detected by known means. They label this missing matter as “dark matter.” A recent experiment at Fermilab, a national particle physics laboratory, may indicate that the standard model of particle physics needs revamping. An article on MSN recently was entitled, “The Big Bang Theory Has Been Debunked?” It said that because the latest observations by the new James Webb Telescope show that what are officially classified as “young” stars exist in what are distant galaxies that are classified as “old,” many astronomers are realizing that what they have long believed about the history of the cosmos might be all wrong. So, I came up with the idea of starting a Biblical Astrophysics Journal which would keep tabs on these kinds of things, and also print papers by young-universe, creationist scientists. I put up a website about this journal idea and advertised it. But I have gotten very few responses from interested individuals and have decided God is not behind this idea, either.

I also have my own career and marriage plans plotted out in front of me. But if God is not in agreement with those, either…

Oswald Chambers stated that the good is always the enemy of the best. Things that seem good to us are not necessarily God’s best will for us as individuals, and may distract us from doing God’s will. Today, I have started praying that to God: “I realize that the good can be the enemy of the best.”

Having been a Christian for 40 years and in full-time ministry for 25 I can say that it has been my experience that questioning one's salvation is quite common among Christians at some point in their walk with Christ. It usually comes just before significant spiritual growth and I personally believe is an attack from Satan.
 
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subtlecollision

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Hi,

I also have OCD, which can be religious. I sometimes struggle with thoughts about my salvation, but I am doing much better now than I was in the past. I think the method you are using of deciding that the thoughts are OCD thoughts is exactly what you need to be doing. What I've realized is I had to ignore the scary thoughts and take a leap of faith, and the more I did that, the more it became obvious to me that I was saved.

As far as your ideas go-- I also had a similar idea about a "Christian nightclub." But I never did anything with it. The journal idea could be good, too.

I think it can be a trap to get caught up in discerning exactly what God's will is for your life. His will is for you to have faith in Jesus, glorify God, love people, etc. You don't need to worry too much about missing out on a particular path. Sometimes it's best to take the next step, do the next good thing, instead of worrying about making sure you're right where God wants you.
 
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Saint Steven

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I post this in "Struggles by Non-Christians" because it refers to my decades long struggle to know whether or not I am a Christian. I was still in doubt as of last Tuesday, so please don't say this is irrelevant to "Struggles by Non-Christians."
Any updates on your situation since you launched this topic?

The OP was rather long, so I will focus on your first paragraph.

Basically, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's a duck. But not always. Which may be the source of your anxiety.

And obviously, there's more to being a Christian than externals. And EVERY Christian can struggle with the externals. Like attending church and keeping up on spiritual disciplines.

Are you a Christian on the inside? That's all that really counts.
 
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Bob8102

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Any updates on your situation since you launched this topic?

The OP was rather long, so I will focus on your first paragraph.

Basically, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's a duck. But not always. Which may be the source of your anxiety.

And obviously, there's more to being a Christian than externals. And EVERY Christian can struggle with the externals. Like attending church and keeping up on spiritual disciplines.

Are you a Christian on the inside? That's all that really counts.

Thanks for asking. As time goes along, I spend more and more time thinking I am a Christian. Because of my OCD and wavering faith, I have had a severe doubt problem. In my weekly Bible study online that I attend, one man often prays something like this: "Lord Jesus, I believe you died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead. I repent of my sins and trust you as my Lord and Savior." I don't think he doubts his salvation. But praying that on an ongoing, repeated basis is apparently a good thing to do, at least according to him and possibly others. I know that Christ saves in a moment and does not waver, even if some of us do waver. Therefore, I am convinced that no one is able to snatch us out of His Father's hand.
 
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Saint Steven

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Thanks for asking. As time goes along, I spend more and more time thinking I am a Christian. Because of my OCD and wavering faith, I have had a severe doubt problem. In my weekly Bible study online that I attend, one man often prays something like this: "Lord Jesus, I believe you died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead. I repent of my sins and trust you as my Lord and Savior." I don't think he doubts his salvation. But praying that on an ongoing, repeated basis is apparently a good thing to do, at least according to him and possibly others. I know that Christ saves in a moment and does not waver, even if some of us do waver. Therefore, I am convinced that no one is able to snatch us out of His Father's hand.
That's a good progress report. Very encouraging.
At times we need to discern where our thoughts come from. Sometimes they are self-defeating. When I recognize them, I ask, "Where did that come from?" I will reject, or renounce a wrong thought. Like, "I can't do anything right." I respond, "Yes, I do."

2 Corinthians 10:5 NIV
... take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
 
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