Reconciling Christianity with ET Aliens

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
You are forgetting the resistance and speed of light problems.

One of the brightest stars in the sky is over 1500 light years away. Scientists say that it's about to go out. (It's rather old)
Meaning that at the speed of light, communication takes 1500 years each way.
Meaning just exchanging greetings takes 3,000 years at the speed of light.

And here all we see is a spec of light....but that star would swallow our sun and all planets out to Mars... because of resistance and lack of focus.
Also, that star is actually gone. Only the light from it is left that we see.
There are also many stars with planets which are less than 20 light years from Earth, and communication with an alien civilization is an enterprise worthy of some patience.

Furthermore, all that is needed to create a problem for Christian theologians is certainty that intelligent alien life exists somewhere else. Imagine if we found the equivalent of a "message in a bottle" from an alien civilization whose star exploded a billion years ago. That is still a problem for Christian theologians.
 
Upvote 0

The Righterzpen

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm
Feb 9, 2019
3,389
1,342
53
Western NY
Visit site
✟145,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
No, I didn't see that. I read the chapter on angels which had some interesting hypotheses that I had not heard before.

Its chapter 4 - "Paranormal activity." It explains how some of these things people experience are actually natural phenomena.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

Nokomis

Active Member
Aug 17, 2020
243
380
Arkansas
✟15,136.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
I suspect that if extraterrestrials ever visited Earth, Christians will just proselytize to them, too.

Christian singer, Larry Norman, shared an interesting POV about this subject in his song U.F.O. "And if there's life on other planets, then I'm sure that He must know....and He's been there once already, and has died to save their souls." I've included the video, in case you'd like to listen to the song.

 
Upvote 0

The Righterzpen

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm
Feb 9, 2019
3,389
1,342
53
Western NY
Visit site
✟145,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
1) Do you consider Aliens and Extraterrestrials one in the same entities?

No. Demons are alien to me; but I would not call them "extraterrestrials."

(Although technically I see where someone would be correct in saying they are, because they didn't originate on earth. Angels existed before earth was inhabited. Yet it's also arguable whether or not an angelic entity can be labeled "terrestrial" to begin with? This is because it doesn't appear as far a Scripture is concerned that they originated on any planet.)

I define "extraterrestrials" specifically as life forms bound in life to a material existence.

Yet, I would not call obedient angels "alien" either. I guess in that sense I would define these terms as how they relate to God.

2) To you,Does Extraterrestrial mean not of Earth?

Yes.

3) If you are Christian, do you think Heaven is another planet somewhere "out there"?

Not a planet; but yes a type of material existence. I consider heaven as currently more like a parallel "universe". God possesses a form of existence that will one day break into this material world and because of God's nature, His presence is what will destroy this material world; and this is why He needs to recreate it incorruptible.

Heaven is currently accessible to the Holy Ghost as well as obedient angels. It does not appear from Scripture that the deceased saints can leave heaven. There are some saints living there though who currently have glorified bodies. Some of them were raised post Christ's resurrection.

I believe the New Jerusalem exists as a material place currently, somewhere in this alternate realm of God.

4) If Christian, do you believe there is intelligent life in Heaven?

Well God is there and obviously He's intelligent (and alive). LOL. There is descriptions of entities in heaven called "beasts"; which appear to be different entities than angels or saints. These entities appear to represent certain truths in metaphoric presentation, yet it appears to me that these "beasts" are actual entities of some sort. Had they been material life from other planets, now in like form as deceased saints? I have no clue.
 
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Its chapter 4 - "Paranormal activity." It explains how some of these things people experience are actually natural phenomena.
I just finished reading ch 4 (paranormal) and also ch 6 (demons). Those are very interesting ideas.

I have sometimes wondered if there is a feedback relationship between mental state and external paranormal stimulus. I became mildly psychotic for a few weeks after a weekend of weird experiences. Were the weird experiences a result of psychosis or was the psychosis a result of the weird experiences? Do material states in our brain make us more sensitive to non-material stimuli?

Just wanted to mention that idea to consider with your other good ideas.
 
Upvote 0

keith99

sola dosis facit venenum
Jan 16, 2008
22,916
6,600
71
✟326,173.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
It would be a disaster to the ego of a certian sort of Christian.

It would be even worse if it turns out that instead of being special and alone we are 'special' only in the sense that we are the only race to have fallen as was the case in the space trillogy by C.S. Lewis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

The Righterzpen

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm
Feb 9, 2019
3,389
1,342
53
Western NY
Visit site
✟145,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
I just finished reading ch 4 (paranormal) and also ch 6 (demons). Those are very interesting ideas.

I have sometimes wondered if there is a feedback relationship between mental state and external paranormal stimulus. I became mildly psychotic for a few weeks after a weekend of weird experiences. Were the weird experiences a result of psychosis or was the psychosis a result of the weird experiences? Do material states in our brain make us more sensitive to non-material stimuli?

Just wanted to mention that idea to consider with your other good ideas.

Well the other issue that plays into this question: Is this a real occurrence or is it just in the person's head? Sometimes that's easier to determine than others.

Now, as you read; I don't believe everyone who has mental health crisis / issues is possessed by demons. Some I think are; but I don't think mental illness and demon possession are mutually inclusive phenomena. On the flip side of this though; there are people I would label as "demon possessed" who would not "rate positive" for identified mental health clusters of behavior. But than again; those people just might be good at "beating the lie detector test" so to speak.

Now, I do acknowledge that some "paranormal activity" is "verifiable" in that it's recordable and has no obvious explanation. (Like "shadow people". I have no idea what a manifestation of a partial human form would be, other than demonic.) Unless of course the footage really has been manipulated and they won't tell us that. I don't discount that's possible too.

So giving the "benefit of the doubt" that the footage isn't manipulated, there are cases where what happens certainly doesn't have a natural explanation (or at least not one that I'm aware of). Some of the natural explanations that I'm aware of were actually stumbled across in the course of many many years of watching documentaries on different stuff. Not because I was specifically looking for that answer. Much of this sort of thing is sleuthing together puzzle pieces and trying to make the best determination as I can; (based on what I know of Scripture) as to what is possibly authentic and what clearly isn't.

I'm always "on the hunt" for more information though so.

And yes, you are correct that material states in our brains do make us more susceptible to "non-material stimuli". (Given if the stimuli is real; but most certainly in the realm of "non-material experiences".)

Lack of sleep is a big "material state of the brain" that causes psychological breaks with reality. Matter of fact, lack of sleep I would say is the largest and most obvious "monster under the bed". More obvious, but (maybe) less common is consumption of chemical substances. This includes side effect to prescription medication, even when taken as prescribed.

My son has hallucinated on ADD meds. Whereas when he has a hallucinatory seizure; it's brief with a distinct beginning and a distinct end which he is aware of. His hallucinatory seizures are only seconds long; not hours, or days as what happens to him with a med reaction. That's why my first "go to" if that happens, is to take him off the meds and see if this phenomena goes away. If it doesn't, I know that would represent a change in the state of his psychological health. That has never happened though.

Mental health though, is also connected to how we think about things and how we perceive our role in the world and the roles of others around us. The paranoid schizophrenic believes other people are controlling him; but that is not reality.

Even in the absence of identifiable mental illness; it is still possible that how we perceive things isn't reality. If we think that everyone around us must be able to see how big of a loser we are; that's a self imposed "reality", that actually isn't real at all. There's no way "everyone on planet earth" would see person X as "a loser".

So, there's that aspect of this too.

And the realization that our perceptions aren't necessarily reality, is a hard lesson to reconcile. We lie to ourselves all the time. And realizing when we are lying to ourselves (such as the "I'm a loser" example) can be very freeing.

So yes, external influences on the brain can impact how we think; but how we think about what we think can impact that also. (Sounds kind of weird - I know.)

Recently I was watching some documentaries on LSD experiments done in the 50's. Prior to seeing this; I always assumed that if the drug left the system the brain would "return to homeostasis". I'm not so sure of that any more. I know chemical alteration can produce permanent changes over decades; and so the "reset" for some patients can only "time machine" to "point of last broken". Yet acknowledging that patient determination to recover plays a role here too.

Now I have seen some remarkable changes in personalities of people who've genuinely been born of the Holy Ghost; but that process can take years still.

The LSD experiments I found interesting because those who it had been used on in experimental treatments, who had a positive outcome (as opposed to a "bad trip"); it was quoted to be on the level of "religious experience". They found it that life altering.

Yet usually on the "other side of the trip" they still felt empty (if not even more empty) because the realization of their recognizing the futility of life, they couldn't "un do". It's like going off to war, or becoming the victim of a profoundly violating crime. Once you've seen the experience; you can't "unsee it". You are changed forever. The LSD experience forever changed these people. Either for the "better" outcome of "I guess life really aint so good"; or the much more negative outcome of the confirmation of all their fears.

Yet the difference between the LSD induced "awakening" and a genuine spiritual awakening; is the one who has the genuine spiritual awakening now has hope in God. With drug induced states though; there's no substance to "hold on to" and this is why participants keep repeating the trip and often become addicted to the substance.

Watching those studies were interesting and they did give me more insight into the mind of the addict, that I didn't really understand before.

If an individual is "so far down" on the "ladder" of spiritual awakening that they mistake what the substance does for the source of any inkling of awakening they may actually really experience; it makes more sense to me why people become addicted. I've heard people in AA meetings describe this; I just didn't see how the puzzle pieces fit together, until I watched these documentaries on LSD research.

Which - just had another thought.....

When I was in the car accident in 2010; I did have religiously orientated hallucinations in the hospital. I was sure Jesus was walking in material form around the hospital. He'd been physically sitting in my room next to me. I was convinced of that in my mind. Of course none of the staff or anyone else saw Jesus physically walking the halls of this hospital; but I was sure He was materially present.

Yet I didn't actually remember those hallucinations until about 4 to 6 months after I got out of the hospital. I knew they happened though based on both recollection and what I read in the medical records.

I understand now that those were likely the result of the drugs I'd been given. (Which were really heavy duty pain killing sedatives on account of the fact that I had serious breaks of multiple large bones. No spine or torso injuries though - Thank God!)

I did sustain a traumatic brain injury; which has more affected my ability to mechanically manipulate parts of my body, than it has affected my personality, or the way I reason.

Psychologically, it has brought greater percentiles of PTSD manifestations to the forefront; but I'd also learned good managing skills before this accident happened. So, it didn't throw me psychologically for a "really big loop".

Now if my injuries had been the result of intentionally criminal human behavior; I'm sure the manifestation of PTSD symptoms would have been more psychologically disabling. I've always concluded that I faired much better psychologically in that accident than I faired physically.

Which again, getting back to your statement about factors affecting state of mind.

No trite, quick and easy answer in all this; is there?

You raise thought provoking questions!
 
  • Like
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,649
27,050
Pacific Northwest
✟738,495.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I watched a Christian documentary about UFOs which asserted that the existence of extraterrestrial aliens cannot be reconciled with Christian theology. If Christian theology is true, then ET aliens do not exist and probably the unexplainable UFOs are demonic deceptions. The lecturer in the documentary was Gary Bates ( Gary Bates - creation.com )

Just wondering what people think.

There was a new story that brought this topic to mind:
Texas Politician Alienates Twitter Users By Suggesting E.T.s Need Religion

There's really no contradiction to be found. The existence and discovery of intelligent, extraterrestrial life will force Christians to address the matter theologically; but exactly how will depend entirely on what we discover when/if we discover it.

The idea that UFOs are demons is, in my opinion, straight up silly. I don't think UFOs are aliens either.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
The idea that UFOs are demons is, in my opinion, straight up silly. I don't think UFOs are aliens either.
The problem with UFOs is that too many different phenomena are lumped together. Also because secret aircraft are sometimes reported as UFOs there are agencies who deliberately create confusion in UFO sighting databases so foreign governments will be less able to use them to learn about those secret aircraft.

When you have Air Force intelligence and similar agencies deliberately making a confusing problem even more confusing it is virtually hopeless to solve.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,649
27,050
Pacific Northwest
✟738,495.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
The problem with UFOs is that too many different phenomena are lumped together. Also because secret aircraft are sometimes reported as UFOs there are agencies who deliberately create confusion in UFO sighting databases so foreign governments will be less able to use them to learn about those secret aircraft.

When you have Air Force intelligence and similar agencies deliberately making a confusing problem even more confusing it is virtually hopeless to solve.

Right, I don't think UFOs are a single thing, but a collection of sightings, reports, of different things. Sometimes it is very likely to be a secret military project, but other times the cause is simply unknown. That's what lumps them all together as unidentified flying objects--they're unidentified. So I would expect that explanations would depend on each individual report or instance, rather than looking for a one size fits all explanation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Like
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
You ever notice how the number of UFO sightings has dropped since everyone has an HD camera in smart phone?
Here is a link claiming that there has actually been a surge in the last couple of years ( Infographic: Has E.T. Gone Home? ). The problem is that UFOs are poorly defined and any statistic about them is meaningless. In the chart in the link the reports in 1990 was only 319 and in 2019 it was 6889? Are there 20 times as many flying saucer sorties today, or are there 20 times as many people who are aware of NUFORC's website?

Incidentally, I have been reading a book by Angelia Sheer "UFO Encounters: blah blah blah" ( “UFO Encounters: How High Strange Events Transform Human Perception” Autographed Paperback - Angelia Sheer )

Sheer is a leader of MUFON in Tennessee and described an incident where a team from MUFON went to interview somebody who had submitted a report with video and so on. Earlier in the day, their team visits a nearby Air Force base and interviews some guards to see if they have ever seen anything. Then later that night as they are in the witness's backyard they are all flabbergasted when a triangular UFO slowly flies overhead. Sheer said that even though the UFO was moving slowly, and there was a team of MUFON investigators with cameras, not a single person took a picture. Everybody was mesmerized and simply watched the UFO slowly pass overhead.

What I find interesting about Sheer's story is their visit to the Air Force base earlier in the day. It makes me wonder if this particular triangular UFO was purposely flown over the MUFON investigative team that evening by the Air Force as part of some misinformation project. Maybe the Air Force has created phony UFO aircraft that they fly to generate phony UFO reports as part of an effort to conceal sightings of a real secret aircraft or even to stir-up interest in UFOs among the public for some reason. I know it sounds crazy, but people in the Defense Department have more money than they know what to do with sometimes, so why not build a phony UFO and fly it around? Maybe it is an experiment to determine how many people will see and report the phony UFO?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jok

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2019
774
658
47
Indiana
✟42,261.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
You ever notice how the number of UFO sightings has dropped since everyone has an HD camera in smart phone?
I don’t notice this, I think there’s a decent amount of videos. However I do love this line of argumentation for my skepticism towards exorcisms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I don’t notice this, I think there’s a decent amount of videos. However I do love this line of argumentation for my skepticism towards exorcisms.
Hmmm. I wouldn't expect people to make videos of exorcisms. An exorcism isn't like a child's birthday party that a parent might want to share with friends. Also, if a person has a demon there is not necessarily going to be anything interesting to see in a video of an exorcism.

I thought I might be under the influence of a demon about 10 years ago. I was using alcohol to self-medicate for depression, so I tried to stay mildly inebriated constantly. I woke up one morning staring at a glass of bourbon from the night before and I heard the most cruel voice saying two words. The sound of that voice was so chilling that it seemed to suck all the color out of the world. People with mental illness sometimes hear voices, and apparently they sound pretty cruel like that.

A while later I decided to attend church with my mother because my father had recently passed away and she was attending church alone and I wanted to be nice. At the end of the service in that Orthodox church, everybody files past the priest and kisses the cross. For some reason, I could not bring myself to kiss the cross, and that bothered me. It made me wonder if I was under demonic influence somehow. I was an agnostic at that time, but I had been raised with Christian beliefs, so demons were one of my concerns even though I didn't necessarily believe in them.

A few months later, I went for a weekend trip to visit and friend and something happened to cause me to become psychotic afterwards. There was a series of weird things that weekend, and I guess finally my brain could no longer rationalize it and gave-in to crazy paranoid explanations. I couldn't sleep for a week, and my mother arranged a meeting with her priest. Apparently the priest performed an exorcism, but it didn't seem to do much. What finally helped me was a prescription of Ambient. I was afraid to sleep, because I thought "they" were brainwashing me in my sleep, so it was difficult to get to take that sleeping pill the first time. But sleep helped quite a bit. The actual recovery from psychosis took several years though. I still have some paranoid delusions at times.

I thought you might be interested in my personal experiences with those things - not that it proves anything - even to me.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Jok
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
You ever notice how the number of UFO sightings has dropped since everyone has an HD camera in smart phone?
If a person ever sees a UFO it is important to turn-off the compression feature of your digital camera. Apparently there is no way for photo-analysts to verify that a compressed digital image is real. I was told that there is often a "raw" setting on digital cameras where every pixel is recorded without software processing, and that is the ideal setting.

You seem like a likely person to see a UFO, because you spend a lot of time in nature.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟19,230.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Sheer is a leader of MUFON in Tennessee and described an incident where a team from MUFON went to interview somebody who had submitted a report with video and so on. Earlier in the day, their team visits a nearby Air Force base and interviews some guards to see if they have ever seen anything. Then later that night as they are in the witness's backyard they are all flabbergasted when a triangular UFO slowly flies overhead. Sheer said that even though the UFO was moving slowly, and there was a team of MUFON investigators with cameras, not a single person took a picture. Everybody was mesmerized and simply watched the UFO slowly pass overhead.

I find that really hard to believe. Multiple investigators who have dedicated all that time and money to research UFOs had their cameras ready, and not one of them thought to take a picture when they saw what they've wanted to see for so long?

I was hiking a year ago on the summer solstice and ran into a live black bear in the woods. Like an idiot, the first thing I did was to stop and try to take it's picture. I got two or three terrible shots that look like those blurry Bigfoot photos before it kicked in that I should probably get the heck out of there.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟19,230.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
If a person ever sees a UFO it is important to turn-off the compression feature of your digital camera. Apparently there is no way for photo-analysts to verify that a compressed digital image is real. I was told that there is often a "raw" setting on digital cameras where every pixel is recorded without software processing, and that is the ideal setting.

You seem like a likely person to see a UFO, because you spend a lot of time in nature.

So far, I've only seen a few unidentified flying birds.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I find that really hard to believe. Multiple investigators who have dedicated all that time and money to research UFOs had their cameras ready, and not one of them thought to take a picture when they saw what they've wanted to see for so long?
I suspect a factor is the feeling that this is a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and therefore the witness is reluctant to look away even for an instant and miss part of the experience. When I thought I saw a UFO that was how I felt. After watching it for several minutes I finally rushed into another room to get my camera. It only took 30 seconds or so to grab my camera bag, but even that was a tough choice. I knew I couldn't get a picture of the UFO, because it was too small, but I wanted to use the 10X lens on the camera to try to make-out detail. Luckily the UFO was still there. After watching the UFO several more seconds with my camera bag at my feet, I hurriedly bent over to get the camera and look through the lens, but the UFO was no longer there. That made me so disappointed, but it also made me wonder if the UFO was watching me and didn't want to risk being photographed.

Your black bear experience was kind of similar though. I'm sure you were afraid that you would miss something by trying to get photos, but you manage to do it. So everybody is different I guess.
 
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Site Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
@The Righterzpen , I've been trying to remember the details so that I could link an article, but maybe you have heard of this? There is a valley in Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, or somewhere with recurring sightings of an unexplained light. The scientists in that nation have installed equipment to try to understand the UFO. I wondered if you had heard of it, because you wrote about earth lights as an explanation for some UFO and paranormal experiences. I've been trying to search, but nothing is coming up for me.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Righterzpen

Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm
Feb 9, 2019
3,389
1,342
53
Western NY
Visit site
✟145,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
@The Righterzpen , I've been trying to remember the details so that I could link an article, but maybe you have heard of this? There is a valley in Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, or somewhere with recurring sightings of an unexplained light. The scientists in that nation have installed equipment to try to understand the UFO. I wondered if you had heard of it, because you wrote about earth lights as an explanation for some UFO and paranormal experiences. I've been trying to search, but nothing is coming up for me.

Stuff like people seeing lighted aircraft they can't identify has happened around the world. Some of it has shown up in reports by military personnel. That kind of stuff, I pretty much chalk up to top secret experimental aircraft. I've seen footage people have taken of this sort of thing. It's definitely a material craft and there's usually no answer from the government as to what it is. Phenomena like that even sometimes makes it on the local news.

The light orbs that electromagnetic energy creates in earth quake or even volcano zones; scientist's know about. If a Scandinavian country has a lake or something that's emitting electromagnetic energy orbs, they might be studying it from a geology standpoint. I haven't seen any references to anything like that recently, so I don't know which event your speaking of. But seeing light orbs is pretty common.
 
Upvote 0