Question?

[Optimax]

How does "non-word of faith" define faith?

 

[dysert]

How does "non-word of faith" define faith?

Heb. 11:1 --> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But I'm sure you knew that already

 

[Faulty]

Trust.

 

[Biblicist]

I suppose that the question could also be asked, "How do we apply faith" which is a far more difficult and complex question to address.

 

[Optimax]

I suppose that the question could also be asked, "How do we apply faith" which is a far more difficult and complex question to address.

Would you attempt an answer?

 

[Biblicist]

I was wondering if this question would come up but in what context should it be addressed, as in;

• healing
• finances
• family
• friends
• church
• government leaders
• fellow employees
• company managers
• future direction/s

and of course...

• how to answer your question

I think that I liked how you phrased your original question, it makes for a far less complex response - hows that for a cop out!

 

[Optimax]

I was wondering if this question would come up but in what context should it be addressed, as in;

• healing
• finances
• family
• friends
• church
• government leaders
• fellow employees
• company managers
• future direction/s

and of course...

• how to answer your question

I think that I liked how you phrased your original question, it makes for a far less complex response - hows that for a cop out!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"How does "non-word of faith" define faith?"

Heb 11:1 does the job nicely. But salvation is the best "DEMONSTRATION" of Biblical faith, AND one that Christians SHOULD be familiar with the workings of.

Salvation starts with GOD "Getting our attention", leading to the Holy Spirit illuminated REALIZATION of SIN, and our position of hopelessness - AND the knowledge of the PROMISE - i.e. the "Word of Faith" TO us THAT HE WILL Forgive and save us.

"Word of Faith" (Hearing of Faith) comes FROM God, and we then BELIEVE it and move out on the REALITY of it when it's there.

I don't see "Word of faith" operations teaching anything like that though - more "Methodologies"/"Professions"/"Magic words", and Presumption as far as the eye can see. AND, of course it doesn't even WORK any better than normal "process Christianity" like you'd find down at First Baptist on the corner.

The Concept by "WoF TRUE believers" about the significance of the Book of Job was a REAL eye-opener about just how totally distorted the popular Hollywood version of "WoF" actually is with relation to Biblical truth.

I live in pretty much everything that "Word of Faith" promises without bothering for a MINUTE with any of their teachings. 50 years ago, I "Committed my way unto the Lord, believed also in HIM, and trusted HIM to bring it to pass.

And He has.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

For me, faith is simply believing what the Bible says. Lester Sumrall said, "If you want to know the will of God, read the Bible. If you want to walk in the Spirit, do the Bible." What we have to realise is that although the whole Bible is written FOR us, not all of it is written TO us. We have to decide which is which. It is called rightly dividing the word of truth.

Believing the Bible means that we believe what the Word of God says about New Covenant Christians in spite of what our senses tell us. Now this does not mean that we PRETEND that things are when they are not, or that things are not when they are.

For instance: I believe that by the stripes of Jesus we WERE healed. On that basis, I can make a statement of faith and tell the spirit of infirmity to leave the person. Then I wait in hope for the Holy Spirit to do the work and bring about the actual healing. I do not say that a person is actually healed when they are not. It is stupidity to pretend a person is healed when they still have the symptoms. But we believe that the Holy Spirit will reveal the healing to our senses in His time, and we wait in hope for that.

This also means that we don't support a person throwing away their medication in response to the prayer of faith. God is greater than the medication, and will not stop the healing taking place. A person can be healed and then become sick because of the medication. He then goes to the doctor, gets it confirmed that it is the medication that is causing the illness, and it is THE DOCTOR who says to stop the medication.

Rule: It is always best to go back to the person who prescribed the medication to get advice about whether to stop it or not.

We are not doctors. We can be sued for practicing medicine without a licence if we give advise about whether or not to take medication. If we are involved in the healing ministry, our role is to minister to the healing using the Word of God.

Naming and claiming can be presumption and not faith. God has not promised blanket prosperity for all Christian believers. I say this because I cannot find any reference in the New Testament that Christian believers automatically experience financial prosperity. Paul says that whatever condition he finds himself in, he is content. God has promised a roof over our heads, clothes to wear and food to eat. He has not specified the quality of those things. He said that He would provide our NEEDs and not necessarily our wants.

I believe in confessing the truth of what God's Word says when I know that it is written to me. But just because I want a better house or car and a flash three-piece suit, it doesn't mean that God wants those things for me. So, I can't name and claim a three piece suit and expect God to supply it. That would be the sin of presumption and not godly faith.

 

[Faulty]

<staff edit>.

Indeed, that is the rub. Let's try something I like to call "context" for a moment.

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:3-11
​

As you can plainly see, "all things" that pertain to life and godliness are clearly divine health, a new car, a fat wallet... uhh, no, wait... huh... it's actually faith, virtue, knowledge, self -control, steadfastness, godliness, brotherly affection, and love. Interesting, no?

Verse 11, these are the things that grant real and eternal riches.

 

[robbymac]

.

 

[redrose42]

yes i agree faith is taking God at His word what God says He means and what He means He says

maggie

 

[tobethebest]

It's just amazing the number of people who out of need reach for wof doctrine. It's concepts suck people in and destroys true vision. To actually learn that it's indoctrination leads to obsession and a limited life apart from it ,is ground-breaking news for those swept away for want of prosperity and a better life. There are so many burnt out Christians who are not willing to go on anymore, who would rather fall into religion and social gatherings instead of trudging their way through restoring their faith and viewing God's word through a different perspective. I must admit, I have been one of them for many years now. Not that I participate in charismatic functions anymore because when it presents itself to me I flee. I don't know where I belong and I can't stomach organized religion. Truth being, I want to know God in a brighter light. I want what I once had when I was an usher for Kathryn Kuhlman. The presence of God in her ministry was exciting to feel. I miss that very much but can't bring myself to attend church anymore..........We tried a few times and when my wife fell down waiting in line to be prayed for, I knew it was because she had forgotten to take her medication. When I went up to help her, the pastor's wife yelled at me and demanded that I leave her alone, that she was under the power of the Holy Spirit and God was working on her. I politely explained that I knew that she had forgotten to take her medications and I wanted to take her to the car where she had them in the glove box. Several women followed us out to the car and were yelling at me for picking my wife up off the floor. By the time we reached the house, her medicine kicked in and she was much better. We have not been back since. There is so much more to learn, for now we find that communion in a Catholic service is enough for both of us. The repetition isn't too comforting, but we do feel like we are in God's house and the young priests are sincere.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The danger I see from most WoF is the constant claim of if you say something with the right amount of faith it can be done, and they usually point out scriptures like Jesus saying to tell the mountain to move in faith and all that. If that is the case, and not to be cliche at all, but if it was a matter of just speaking in faith and obtaining anything why don't they go through hospitals and heal them all in the name of Jesus? Why don't they go out and preach and in faith claim that everyone who hears will be converted? People in spiritual blindness are just as much under the power of Satan as the one who is sick or injured, layed up in the hospital are they not? (2 Cor 4:4) Forgive me if this sounds harsh but as some comments here state, (and this is my own spin on it) WoF is a very destructive thing. It's the epitome of the modern gospel, come to Jesus to get life fulfillment, riches, and happiness. There's a Godshaped hole in your heart that only Jesus can fill that sort of thing. That's heresy. Repentance and faith are the only ways to salvation.

 

[Optimax]

The danger I see from most WoF is the constant claim of if you say something with the right amount of faith it can be done, and they usually point out scriptures like Jesus saying to tell the mountain to move in faith and all that. If that is the case, and not to be cliche at all, but if it was a matter of just speaking in faith and obtaining anything why don't they go through hospitals and heal them all in the name of Jesus? Why don't they go out and preach and in faith claim that everyone who hears will be converted? People in spiritual blindness are just as much under the power of Satan as the one who is sick or injured, layed up in the hospital are they not? (2 Cor 4:4) Forgive me if this sounds harsh but as some comments here state, (and this is my own spin on it) WoF is a very destructive thing. It's the epitome of the modern gospel, come to Jesus to get life fulfillment, riches, and happiness. There's a Godshaped hole in your heart that only Jesus can fill that sort of thing. That's heresy. Repentance and faith are the only ways to salvation.

Do you think it is possible that you might misunderstand what WOF actually teaches?

 

[Optimax]

Been some mostly great responses.

Thanks for the insight.

Anyone else?

 

[Optimax]

Anyone else want to share how you define faith?

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON

A little clean up has occurred. Non-members of communities are allowed to post in fellowship, and to ask questions. It is not your job to try and run folks off. If you have a question on who is allowed to post where, you may ask in the Member Service Center.

That is all. Carry on (with the topic).


MOD HAT OFF

 

[FoundInGrace]

it is not wrong to protect and warn esp when the mods are so busy (no offense mods workload is large) it takes this long for a response to occur.

 

[Optimax]

Go ahead. Share your belief of what faith is.

Many of ya haven't yet.