question about Mary - the mom :)

[masuwerte]

Thank you for your reply. You've put a lot of effort into it. We're not allowed to debate here, are we? But thank you.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Thank you for your reply. You've put a lot of effort into it. We're not allowed to debate here, are we? But thank you.

No . .but we can talk


Peace in Him!

 

[TheCub]

The Blessed Mother is as human as you or I.....but of course is in Heaven now. The first chapter of John tells us that:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

and then:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

That is to say that Jesus is God. Now, it was the Will of God the Father that His only begotten Son come down to Earth and take on flesh and sacrifice His body on the cross for man's sins. The Blessed Mother provided the flesh. Therefore, she is the 'Mother of God.....Jesus".

Now, Jesus is King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. (1Tim 6:15; Rev 17:14; Rev 19:16). As Jesus is the King, His Mother is then the QUEEN MOTHER.

Now, the purpose of the Queen Mother in the Davidic Kingdoms (Jesus is a decendant of David) is to plead for the people of Israel before the king. That is, the Queen Mother is the ADVOCATE for the people. Why because men have a difficult time turning down their mothers. Do you remember the Jesus could not turn down the Blessed Mother in her request at the wedding feast at Cana (See the 2nd chapter of John)?

Consider the following:

"…Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king's mother, who sat at his right. "There is one small favor I would ask of you," she said. "Do not refuse me." "Ask it, my mother," the king said to her, "for I will not refuse you…". (Cf. I Kings 2:19-20)

The Blessed Mother of God is the fairest daughter of the Father, the Mother of the Son and the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. She has a relationship with the Holy Trinity unlike any other creature. Her role as Advocate for the children of God is unlike any other creature’s as well.

Dr. Miravalle described it this way: "In the great Davidic kingdoms of the Old Testament, the mother of the king traditionally held the office of the "Queen Mother" (or "Gebirah" in Hebrew, literally meaning "the Great Lady", (Cf. 1Ki 2:11,19). The principal role of the Queen Mother was to serve as advocate or intercessor on behalf of the people of Israel to her son the King.

"In the New Testament, with the announcement of the new and eternal King and Kingdom of God (Cf. Lk. 1:32-33), so too humanity receives a new Queen Mother, as principal advocate for the people of God in presenting their needs to Jesus Christ, the King of kings. .Her advocacy is clearly manifest at Cana, interceding on behalf of those without physical wine, but ultimately for the spiritual and Eucharistic wine of her Son (Jn.2:1-10). At Calvary, the Crucified King presents his Mother and Queen to the world as gift to all in his Kingdom (Jn. 19:27). And in Revelation, the new Queen Mother in the universal and everlasting Kingdom of Christ is crowned with twelve stars (Rev. 12:1), as she, in battle array, continues her life and death advocacy for humanity against the spiritual warring of the Dragon-Adversary.”

NOW.......we know that the term "Israel refers to "THE PEOPLE OF GOD". Since we Christians have accepted Jesus, we are the NEW ISRAEL. (See 1Pet 2:9-10; Gal 4:28-31; Gal 6:14-16; Mat 21:43).

THEREFORE, Catholics pray to the Blessed Mother to plead for our petitions and prayers before her Son, Jesus, on our behalf. She is VERY INFLUENCIAL WITH JESUS. Consider Catholic pray the "Hail Mary":

"Hail Mary, full of grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. Amen."

As you can see, we pray to her begging her to plead with her Son (who is God) to answer our prayers. No, she is not a goddess.....and we are not to worship her as one....that is forbidden.

 

[wpiman2]

THEREFORE, Catholics pray to the Blessed Mother to plead for our petitions and prayers before her Son, Jesus, on our behalf. She is VERY INFLUENCIAL WITH JESUS. Consider Catholic pray the "Hail Mary":

"Hail Mary, full of grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. Amen."

As you can see, we pray to her begging her to plead with her Son (who is God) to answer our prayers. No, she is not a goddess.....and we are not to worship her as one....that is forbidden.

Interesting: my grandmother had a virgin mary in her back yard and would pray to her often. Clearly she was an icon and it appeared that she worshiped her.

If Mary is very influential with Jesus and that is the reason we pray to her, are you suggesting that Jesus doesn't really listen to our prayers? He will take our prayers more seriously if his mother puts in a good word for us?

Interesting in that I was raised to believe that God would listen to our prayers and was omniscient and omnipresent. He was all powerful and above influence. To suggest that God can be persuaded seems to suggest that he isn't all knowing and blows with the wind to be popular with the crowd in Heaven. He doesn't capitulate to peer pressure.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Interesting: my grandmother had a virgin mary in her back yard and would pray to her often. Clearly she was an icon and it appeared that she worshiped her.

Sometimes I pray before statues and icons but never TO them, they are simply visual reminders for me. However to others it might look like I'm actually speaking to them, though I'm not

If Mary is very influential with Jesus and that is the reason we pray to her, are you suggesting that Jesus doesn't really listen to our prayers? He will take our prayers more seriously if his mother puts in a good word for us?

Jesus does listen to our prayers, but in the Bible it says 'the prayers of a righteous man avails much'. Mary is the most righteous person because she's never sinned, she was full of grace from the moment of her conception. We have a Mother in Heaven who loves us very much

Interesting in that I was raised to believe that God would listen to our prayers and was omniscient and omnipresent. He was all powerful and above influence. To suggest that God can be persuaded seems to suggest that he isn't all knowing and blows with the wind to be popular with the crowd in Heaven. He doesn't capitulate to peer pressure.

God IS omniscient and omnipresent, but He also listens to prayers. Not because He is under influence but because of His mercy.

The reason Mary's prayers are so effective is because she only ever does God's will, her will is entirely surrendered to His. Ours is not. She is perfectly humble. We are not. If we ask her to pray for us, she'll pray in accordance with God's will and exactly what is needed. Her prayers are just better. Yes, God does listen to everyone. But the Bible does suggest that not all prayers are equal. As CS Lewis said, if there is equality it is in His love not in us. It builds humility to accept this

God bless.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Has no one mentioned the alarming quote from Ligouri? When he said that when Mary commands something, all things obey, even God!?
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

This is just linking everything back to the wedding at Cana. When Mary asked Jesus to turn the water into wine. He asked her, why.. but He did it.

3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."

4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come." 5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Are you a Catholic?
You don't sound like one

Interesting: my grandmother had a virgin mary in her back yard and would pray to her often. Clearly she was an icon and it appeared that she worshiped her.

If Mary is very influential with Jesus and that is the reason we pray to her, are you suggesting that Jesus doesn't really listen to our prayers? He will take our prayers more seriously if his mother puts in a good word for us?

Interesting in that I was raised to believe that God would listen to our prayers and was omniscient and omnipresent. He was all powerful and above influence. To suggest that God can be persuaded seems to suggest that he isn't all knowing and blows with the wind to be popular with the crowd in Heaven. He doesn't capitulate to peer pressure.

 

[wpiman2]

Are you a Catholic?
You don't sound like one

You weren't raised to believe God was omnipresent and omniscient?

You don't sound Catholic to me.

 

[holysee]

You weren't raised to believe God was omnipresent and omniscient?

You don't sound Catholic to me.

Catholics generally believe James 5:16- Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. And St Paul when he wrote-
Colossians 1:9 9 Therefore we also, from the day that we heard it, cease not to pray for you, and to beg that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom, and spiritual understanding:

St James knowing God to be omnipresent and omniscient is inspired by the Holy Spirit to point out that the continual prayer of a just person (like Mary) is of great avail. Likewise St Paul did not say to the Colossians "your prayer alone is sufficient for your needs" he says "I will intercede for you with God". And how does all this interceding help? Because praying for others, praying in solidarity with others is an act of love and all acts of love have value in the eye of God whi is love itself.

 

[Budgie]

Hi, you all.
I think it's common for Protestants to misunderstand the role of Mary in the Catholic Church. We believe that Christ is both God and Man but Mary is only Woman. Christ got his humanity from Mary and his divinity from God the Father. However, sometimes Mary is misportrayed in heretical doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption which were introduced by Pope Pius IX. We do not have many female role models in the Catholic Church so Mary is important to us. You are not forced to pray to Mary however, in the Gospel of Luke Mary says that generations will call her blessed and that is why we say the Hail Mary aswell as the Magnificat.

My husband's a protestant so I understand.

 

[Protoevangel]

Hi, you all.
I think it's common for Protestants to misunderstand the role of Mary in the Catholic Church. We believe that Christ is both God and Man but Mary is only Woman. Christ got his humanity from Mary and his divinity from God the Father. However, sometimes Mary is misportrayed in heretical doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption which were introduced by Pope Pius IX. We do not have many female role models in the Catholic Church so Mary is important to us. You are not forced to pray to Mary however, in the Gospel of Luke Mary says that generations will call her blessed and that is why we say the Hail Mary aswell as the Magnificat.

My husband's a protestant so I understand.

(My highlight)

Just out of curiosity, are you saying that as a Catholic, you believe that the Roman Catholic Dogmas about the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary are Heretical? What would that say about the Catholic Church, in your opinion?

Just for your information, the Assumption of Mary was not introduced by Pope Pius IX. It has been believed by Christians since the beginning. The evidence of this fact goes back to such Holy and God-Bearing Fathers as Saint John Damascene (676 – 749), Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (315 – 386) and Saint Evodius of Rome (died c. A.D. 69).

Perhaps I misunderstood your post. I'm not trying to be argumentative.