Pulling up the drawbridge

[Woodthrush42]

Our 28-yr-old son is a “gay witch”. How did it happen? I cannot say. We raised him with love and discipline. (Others say we did a good balanced job.) We taught him the scripture, took him to church, homeschooled then sent him to Christian school. He grew up, went to college and eventually told us he was gay. A few years later, he decided he was a witch. He also decided he didn’t want to pay his school loans, so now we have that burden. He’s one of many children and we couldn’t cover his schooling. His siblings had to deal with their loans, but he’s sticking us with the bill. It’s a real crunch on our budget.

Though painful and awkward, we stayed in contact with him in order to encourage him to consider Jesus. He knows the gospel. In fact, he might have more scripture down to memory that any of us, as he has a keen mind and excellent memory. Well, he did. He smokes pot so who knows...

We recently decided to cut off all contact with him. There are only two exceptions: a medical need and if he wants to talk about the Lord. We can’t tell if he was ever saved. There were a couple salvation moments, but it appears they didn’t “stick”.

I wondered if anyone else has had to do this. It just seems wrong to got coffee and talk and laugh with someone who is a gay witch and knows better. His actions fly in the face of everything he knows about God. I have no peace about being with him after all these years of trying to reach him. Also he’s narcissistic. He lies, charms, and uses people. I’m always on guard with him.

 

[dqhall]

Our 28-yr-old son is a “gay witch”. How did it happen? I cannot say. We raised him with love and discipline. (Others say we did a good balanced job.) We taught him the scripture, took him to church, homeschooled then sent him to Christian school. He grew up, went to college and eventually told us he was gay. A few years later, he decided he was a witch. He also decided he didn’t want to pay his school loans, so now we have that burden. He’s one of many children and we couldn’t cover his schooling. His siblings had to deal with their loans, but he’s sticking us with the bill. It’s a real crunch on our budget.

Though painful and awkward, we stayed in contact with him in order to encourage him to consider Jesus. He knows the gospel. In fact, he might have more scripture down to memory that any of us, as he has a keen mind and excellent memory. Well, he did. He smokes pot so who knows...

We recently decided to cut off all contact with him. There are only two exceptions: a medical need and if he wants to talk about the Lord. We can’t tell if he was ever saved. There were a couple salvation moments, but it appears they didn’t “stick”.

I wondered if anyone else has had to do this. It just seems wrong to got coffee and talk and laugh with someone who is a gay witch and knows better. His actions fly in the face of everything he knows about God. I have no peace about being with him after all these years of trying to reach him. Also he’s narcissistic. He lies, charms, and uses people. I’m always on guard with him.

Paul wrote in Romans about people who had memorized the law, taught the law, but did not obey. It is like a person teaching others not to steal, but stealing from a temple.

Smoking pot, the occult and homosexuality are not signs of being saved.

Jesus taught about a family of five. Three will be divided against two and two against three. Sometimes you can not go along with something another family member says or does.

 

[PloverWing]

I see four different issues here:
1) He's gay.
2) He's a witch.
3) He's not taking responsibility for his college loans.
4) He "lies, charms, and uses people".

I want to start with #3. Regardless of a person's sexual orientation or religion, they should take responsibility for their loans. Was the loan taken out in his name, or in yours? If he defaults, are you legally responsible? What were the terms of the loan? If the loan is in his name, and not yours, and if he has a job, then he should be making his own loan payments. If the loan is in your name, then you may be temporarily stuck with the payments, but he should definitely pay you back long-term.

#4 is a serious character flaw, but I don't know what to recommend there. It's possible he'll grow out of it as he learns that manipulating people eventually drives them away.

On #1 and #2: I have some gay family members, and while I don't have any family members who are Pagan, I do have some who are atheist. All are kind, intelligent, responsible people, and the ones who are gay are also devout Christians. Your son will have to take some time to figure out what his sexual orientation means for the shape that his life and family relationships will take; being gay isn't easy. It sounds like he is also figuring out what his religious beliefs are, and he's exploring a religion that is different from what he grew up with. I recommend giving him time and space for this exploration. If he's been surrounded by a purely Christian environment throughout his young years, he may feel that he needs to see what other options are out there in the world. Many people find that a period of exploration helps them settle into a set of religious beliefs that is theirs by choice (rather than just drifting into whatever their parents believed), so maybe it will go this way for your son.

I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I know it's hard.

 

[Woodthrush42]

Thanks for the replies. It’s good to hear other perspectives.

Ploverwing, we co-signed on many of his school loans. Big mistake. We never imagined he wouldn’t pay them. He’s immoral on so many levels.

 

[PloverWing]

Ploverwing, we co-signed on many of his school loans. Big mistake. We never imagined he wouldn’t pay them. He’s immoral on so many levels.

That's tough. You're probably legally stuck with the loans for the time being. I don't suppose he'd consider paying at least part of his fair share? Does he have a job?

Maybe down the road a bit he'll come to his senses and realize how selfish he's being, pushing his financial responsibilities off onto you.

Back when I was taking out student loans, it was the state government, not my parents, who guaranteed the loan. Times have changed, and lending companies have discovered that there's profit to be made.

 

[BeyondTheBirch]

He's your son no matter what, how is his choice of faith and lifestyle affecting you? Let him do his own thing.

 

[Woodthrush42]

Sorry for the delay in answering. As a mom of many and grandmother of you, I get busy ...

My response -

Of course, he is my son and I will always love him! I pray for him daily and sometimes fast and pray on his behalf.

Being with my son does affect me. He is narcissistic and takes pleasure in tweaking me. For example, he’ll make little digging comments about my belief system. However, I’m not allowed to question his beliefs. He has tricky Waze of shutting down a subject or changing the subject, or he will say, “That makes me uncomfortable.” So he can push the limits with me, but different rules for him.

I love him and have extremely limited contact with him. I might text him once every couple of months to ask him how he’s doing. He answers briefly and tells me he loves me. I tell him that I love him. And we may not communicate for another couple of months. Spending a lot of time with him is stressful. I feel like I am always at risk. This is because I believe he has the capacity to use my own words and actions against me. He’s very charming and can set you at ease. But I am afraid he is in information collection mode at that time. OR he’s earning niceness points. Sometimes, he’ll ask me for a favor that is inconvenient. And it is almost always spontaneous with very little warning to arrange my day around it. If I refuse him, he gets very angry! Then will come a torrent of ugly words and false accusations. I will never forget the time that I had just had shoulder surgery and he was very upset with me that I was not going to help him move from one apartment to another. He made the decision to move knowing I had shoulder surgery coming up. He could’ve arranged for other people to help him, but at the last minute, he was asking ME, two or three days after my surgery! I wasn’t even cleared for driving, let alone moving things. This is the kind of person he is.

My husband also thinks he needs to feel the consequences of being abusive to people.

I am available if he has a medical emergency or wants to talk about the Lord. But otherwise, distance is best.

 

[blackribbon]

The most important statement is one you seem to think isn't much of the problem. He is a narcissist. He is going to do what narcissists do. He can't help it and doesn't see that he has a problem (and likely never will). I suggest that you go to counseling to learn more about this, how to deal with him, and deal with how this affects you mentally.

 

[Woodthrush42]

I didn’t mean to make narcissism sound unimportant. It is important and flavors our relationship. It is one of the reasons we keep him at a distance.

Perhaps I will try to find a Christian counselor for advice on the odd little things of living this way. I was hoping to meet someone on here who is going through what I am going through. Perhaps someone further ahead who can advise me. It would save me $50 every time I go to a psychologists office. It’s a strange place that I’m in. None of my friends are in this place (and I have a lot of friends).

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I see four different issues here:
1) He's gay.
2) He's a witch.
3) He's not taking responsibility for his college loans.
4) He "lies, charms, and uses people".

I want to start with #3. Regardless of a person's sexual orientation or religion, they should take responsibility for their loans. Was the loan taken out in his name, or in yours? If he defaults, are you legally responsible? What were the terms of the loan? If the loan is in his name, and not yours, and if he has a job, then he should be making his own loan payments. If the loan is in your name, then you may be temporarily stuck with the payments, but he should definitely pay you back long-term.
(snip).

I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I know it's hard.

This! The dumping the school loans on you is a BIG FAT no, regardless of all the rest. Sounds like you co-signed and are getting stuck. I'm sorry.

I wouldn't stop speaking to him but I would insist that he begin paying back, no matter how small the payments. He just can't do that to the rest of the family. Not ok.

And pray, a lot. It's hard.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Sorry for the delay in answering. As a mom of many and grandmother of you, I get busy ...

My response -

Of course, he is my son and I will always love him! I pray for him daily and sometimes fast and pray on his behalf.

Being with my son does affect me. He is narcissistic and takes pleasure in tweaking me. For example, he’ll make little digging comments about my belief system. However, I’m not allowed to question his beliefs. He has tricky Waze of shutting down a subject or changing the subject, or he will say, “That makes me uncomfortable.” So he can push the limits with me, but different rules for him.

I love him and have extremely limited contact with him. I might text him once every couple of months to ask him how he’s doing. He answers briefly and tells me he loves me. I tell him that I love him. And we may not communicate for another couple of months. Spending a lot of time with him is stressful. I feel like I am always at risk. This is because I believe he has the capacity to use my own words and actions against me. He’s very charming and can set you at ease. But I am afraid he is in information collection mode at that time. OR he’s earning niceness points. Sometimes, he’ll ask me for a favor that is inconvenient. And it is almost always spontaneous with very little warning to arrange my day around it. If I refuse him, he gets very angry! Then will come a torrent of ugly words and false accusations. I will never forget the time that I had just had shoulder surgery and he was very upset with me that I was not going to help him move from one apartment to another. He made the decision to move knowing I had shoulder surgery coming up. He could’ve arranged for other people to help him, but at the last minute, he was asking ME, two or three days after my surgery! I wasn’t even cleared for driving, let alone moving things. This is the kind of person he is.

My husband also thinks he needs to feel the consequences of being abusive to people.

I am available if he has a medical emergency or wants to talk about the Lord. But otherwise, distance is best.

All scammers have different rules for themselves than for everyone else and will shut down any legitimate conversation.

Wow, on the demand that you help him move after shoulder surgery. He needs deliverance. Keep praying. And again, I'm sorry, but nothing is impossible for the Lord.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

He's your son no matter what, how is his choice of faith and lifestyle affecting you? Let him do his own thing.

It sounds as if his choices are affecting his whole family quite a bit. Did you read the rest of the responses?