Praying in tongues is part of Biblical Christianity

[Isilwen]

Blessings in Christ Jesus Isilwen. A few years ago I was reading about the gifts of tongues on these very boards. I was curious since I knew that The Lord through me, was using other spiritual gifts as He willed. It was Watchman1 teaching about this gift as He is doing today. Below is what I wrote down, and after I was praying I did.
1 Believe(faith) it is The Lord's will for me to have this gift.
2 Ask The Lord for this gift in prayer.
3. Thank The Lord for this gift(Faith).
4. Now go out and do something you have never done before.
So that night I went to my bedroom to pray and intercede for others.
As I was still on my knees I did 1-3 above.
As I walked out of the bedroom I opened my mouth and out flowed a language I had never spoke before.
It flowed like a river from my lips. There was no practicing, It was a complete language. Matter of fact this language to me seemed more
me than the English I normally speak. I also knew right away this gift was there all along. It just needed to be unwrapped by faith.
So be encouraged.

As I stated, I do not believe that praying/speaking in tongues is for all Christians. God hears my prayers just fine in English. Fater doing it the way you have mentioned and Watchman1 has mentioned, nothing came. That means that the Spirit doesn't always give a prayer language to a Christian.

My prayer language is my native tongue, which God hears just fine. I am good with this.

 

[YahuahSaves]

The fact that the Samaritans were born again when the received Christ

No, they weren't "Born again", they were only baptised by water and believed. They were told that water was only used because they didn't have Jesus, but once Jesus came the Holy Spirit is needed to be truly baptised and born again.

That's called twisting God's Word to suit your own premise.

That's what you're doing saying speaking in tongue's is evidence of being baptised with the spirit. But you seem to contradict yourself in your last response.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"To be truly baptised with the Spirit, one has to be born again and showing the fruit of repentance. The Holy Spirit will not fill an unclean vessel that has not received the righteousness of Christ. Being religious, talking the talk, and joining a church is not the same as being born again. True conversion to Christ is a personal transaction between the person and Jesus Christ, and it is from the heart. Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart." "A person who is truly baptised with the Spirit is fully involved in glorifying Jesus, presenting the true Gospel, showing God's compassion toward the sick and suffering. If all the person is doing is jumping around babbling in gibberish in emotionally charged meetings, all they are doing is performing a display in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit is far from them."

Hey Watchman1.. your making some statements that are no where in the word of God. The gift of the sweet sweet holy Spirit is only for the believer period. See what is written? How much more with your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to theme that ask. That's it no more no less. Any believer that asks will receive the sweet sweet holy Spirit. Not one can receive another spirit or all this is worthless for He can not lie. If we make a statement as in "has to be" then back that up with the word. There is no scripture for "showing the fruit of repentance". So which is it? Well on hand you said they must be showing fruits of repentance yet you also said man looks on the outward appearance but God looks at the heart (Samuel).

What is this "jumping around babbling in gibberish in emotionally" Again God can not lie those believers that are doing that are filled with the holy spirit. There are times to be still and what not abut there are other moments to jump shout praise Him in tongues singing in tongues... Oh yes praise God glory glory glory to Jesus. No matter how "emotionally I get I am still filled with the sweet sweet holy Spirit and I can not ever babble in gibberish. Where you think theses ideas come from? Heaven. Yeah angels jump shout dance. HAHA what are the odds right now this second the words to the song say this "when the spirit of the lord moves in my heart I will dance like David danced". HAHA PRAISE GOD.. I type dance then those words on the song came out.

Anyway they asked some have you received the holy spirit since you believed. That's how it works. Since you believed. Its for ALL believers. He does it not us. Not they way we think it should be. When I was I don't know 14 or so was at my best friends house and his little sister comes running in telling her mom how she and her friend were baptized in a Catholic Church and her friend came out speaking in tongues. That was it.. He did it His way we get no say here. pffft any one that believes in Jesus Christ are righteous and holy. There is no "fruits prove" your righteous. He already died for the sin of this world He can not die again. There is no sin in our life that keeps us from Him. Its what He did not us. The Father right now sees us holy and righteous aka righteousness. That comes not by anything we can do but be just believing in Jesus Christ. This flesh has not been changed. So there will be fruit which comes from the vine not by anything we do. I am saying being filled with the holy spirit is not based on if you show fruits or not. Its not based on how good I am or any work I do. Those will happen because of Christ in me. Anyway..

To anyone that does not know. Read Luke 11:13 and yeah just do what He said. He will the Father keep His word. You ask you got it your filled. We walk by Faith. Its that simple

Your post contains so many mixed up issues that I can't reply to it very well. The fruit of repentance is simply the change in lifestyle to show that one has truly repented and not just said they had. Jesus said it in Matthew 3:8: "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Exactly what I have done.

I still do not believe that all will pray/speak in tongues. I'm fine with not receiving it as that means the Spirit has something else for me. I can pray just fine in English and God hears me just fine.

Fine. If you don't believe that being filled with the Spirit is God's will for you, then there is nothing anyone can do about it. I have heard testimonies from people who received the gift of tongues that receiving it was so simple they should have done it years ago. The fact is, one doesn't miss what one has never had. But those who have received have been amazed at the transformation that has occurred in their prayer life and the new power they have in ministry and leading others to Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I would be careful in making such an assumption. As a person who has exhibited some flaky behavior, which I now know was not the Holy Spirit. It is not so much that a person "IS" flaky rather, they are just trying too hard to be spiritual. They are normally people with low understanding, but high zeal. Placing a judgment on such people may case them more harm than good.

Over time I managed to get away from "flakiness" and become more sound in the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I am sure there may still be some area I don't understand fully, but I am sure a lot more stable nowadays.

I think that maturity in God's Word and prayer bring soundness in the way we use spiritual gifts. It says in Hebrews that strong spiritual food belongs to those who through experience and use are able to discern between good and evil. Spiritual babies who are still on spiritual milk are the ones who are flaky and this is why Paul recommends against novices being put forward for leadership, because they will be lifted up with pride and fall into the condemnation of the devil. It is that maturity in the Word and prayer that causes a believer to be able to distinguish what is coming from the Holy Spirit in terms of prophecy and words of knowledge, and whether it is coming from the person's own imagination. Novices are not mature enough to clearly know the difference and so many prophecies and words of knowledge fall short of what is discerned as coming from the Holy Spirit. Much of the problem is that these novices think they know everything about the ministry of the Holy Spirit and they don't listen to more mature people who attempt to correct them. This is why false prophecy and words of knowledge cause so much harm in churches and conferences. If I had my time all over again I would have spent the first five years of my Christian life giving myself to prayer and learning God's Word and not making any attempts at ministry to others until I was totally sure that I was being led by the Holy Spirit and not by my enthusiasm and pride through thinking I was more mature that I actually was.

In fact, I don't think at the age of 75 that I know as much that I did when I was 25. Perhaps after 50 years since after walking with the Lord I realise that there is so much more to learn that what I think I have learned is just a drop in the bucket.

 

[Isilwen]

But those who have received have been amazed at the transformation that has occurred in their prayer life and the new power they have in ministry and leading others to Christ.

My prayer life is doing just fine. I don't have a ministry. Right now I don't have a ministry. Work and taking care if my family is my calling. If people want to know about Christ, they come to me and I can lead them just fine. I don't need to speak/pray in tongues.

Not everything is done the AOG way in the Christian world and it works just fine not doing it that way.

I am curious, why don't you send people to that website of yours anymore. You used to say that you would find good counsel there. I don't see you doing that anymore.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Blessings in Christ Jesus Isilwen. A few years ago I was reading about the gifts of tongues on these very boards. I was curious since I knew that The Lord through me, was using other spiritual gifts as He willed. It was Watchman1 teaching about this gift as He is doing today. Below is what I wrote down, and after I was praying I did.
1 Believe(faith) it is The Lord's will for me to have this gift.
2 Ask The Lord for this gift in prayer.
3. Thank The Lord for this gift(Faith).
4. Now go out and do something you have never done before.
So that night I went to my bedroom to pray and intercede for others.
As I was still on my knees I did 1-3 above.
As I walked out of the bedroom I opened my mouth and out flowed a language I had never spoke before.
It flowed like a river from my lips. There was no practicing, It was a complete language. Matter of fact this language to me seemed more
me than the English I normally speak. I also knew right away this gift was there all along. It just needed to be unwrapped by faith.
So be encouraged.

You can't imagine how this encourages me. It is just such a clear confirmation that the steps are what the Lord showed me so many years ago. A wonderful testimony! The Lord really does honour faith in HIs promise!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, they weren't "Born again", they were only baptised by water and believed. They were told that water was only used because they didn't have Jesus, but once Jesus came the Holy Spirit is needed to be truly baptised and born again.


That's what you're doing saying speaking in tongue's is evidence of being baptised with the spirit. But you seem to contradict yourself in your last response.

It really doesn't matter what I say, you only going to argue against it based on your own view of what constitutes being born again and baptised with the Spirit. So I don't have any more answers for you.

 

[YahuahSaves]

It really doesn't matter what I say, you only going to argue against it based on your own view of what constitutes being born again and baptised with the Spirit. So I don't have any more answers for you.

That's what you have been doing with this entire thread! Telling people they need to speak in tongues is a sign of the baptism of the Spirit is wrong.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My prayer life is doing just fine. I don't have a ministry. Right now I don't have a ministry. Work and taking care if my family is my calling. If people want to know about Christ, they come to me and I can lead them just fine. I don't need to speak/pray in tongues.

Not everything is done the AOG way in the Christian world and it works just fine not doing it that way.

I am curious, why don't you send people to that website of yours anymore. You used to say that you would find good counsel there. I don't see you doing that anymore.

I find that is easier to give my views here for all who read these threads to see. I am a trained typist so I can type a lot of content quiet easily. I do update my website from time to time, depending if there is something appropriate to add.

I will tell you that when my daughter at the age of 17 went through a clinical depression and we were on suicide watch for her for six weeks, just being able to pray from my mind just wasn't enough. I needed a more powerful spirit of intercession for her and so I asked the Lord to guide my tongues gift to provide it. I prayed more in tongues during the nine months she was depressed than I had ever prayed before. As a result my language changed several times, and after nine months she came right out of the depression, kicked her addiction to codeine, got off her methadone programme so quickly the pharmacist was amazed because she had never seen anyone get free of it so quickly. She did half a degree in psychology, went and became a gym trainer, and got a permanent position in administration and is now an assistance manager. It confirms that the fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much, especially when the person praying is for his daughter.

Another memorable episode was when I was first involved in CF, a member told me about his mother who was suffering a life threatening stomach bleed in an English hospital. The doctors couldn't stop the bleeding and it was feared that she might not last the night. I live in New Zealand, 12.000 miles away. I was driving somewhere in my car, and I asked the Lord to help me intercede for her. Immediately, when I started praying in tongues, a whole new intense language came out, a combination of Japanese and a fax machine, it was so fast. It lasted for 20 minutes and I felt really drained afterward. It was around midday in New Zealand, so it would have been midnight in England. The member came back to me a couple of days later to tell me that around midnight in the hospital the bleeding suddenly stopped and now she is well on the way to recovery. This also show the power of tongues in intercession.

We will never know when we will be called upon to intercede for a family member in deep trouble, especially when that trouble is life-threatening, or when someone in your church or on CF asks you to intercede in prayer for someone having serious medical issues that could end their life. One needs more than just our own language to be able to wrestle and travail in fervent and effectual prayer. The Scripture says that we need to pray and not faint. If we are depending on our finite mind in prayer we very quickly run out of words. The only answer is to be able to pray in the Spirit. One cannot manufacture deep intercessory prayer in the Spirit. It has to flow right out of our innermost being. But if the flow of the Spirit is not already there in our normal prayer times, then when a deeper intercession is needed, there will be nothing to support it.

But then, if you have never experienced anything like that, then you would have no idea of it and therefore would be satisfied with what you have. I was so glad that I had the gift of tongues when it came to interceding for my daughter when she needed it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's what you have been doing with this entire thread! Telling people they need to speak in tongues is a sign of the baptism of the Spirit is wrong.

Well, every person that I have assisted over the last 50 years to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit have flowed out in tongues. It certainly was a sign to me that they had genuinely received the baptism. And it was receiving tongues that they wanted the sign to be for them as well, and they were very thankful to me for encouraging them to step out in faith to start speaking in tongues. If the Lord thinks it is wrong to encourage speaking in tongues as a sign of receiving the baptism then He would not have included it in the steps he showed me.

Here is a testimony that shows that Jesus is the baptiser with the Holy Spirit and the giver of the gift of tongues. I took a young believer through the steps (in the late 1970s) and when he had said to the Lord that he received the baptism, I said that he could speak in tongues. He wanted to but could not take that step of faith. I worked with him for round 15 minutes with no success. I then said to the Lord, "You are the baptiser with the Spirit so all I can do now is to leave him up to You." Immediately I said that, the young guy went, "Oh!" and immediately burst out in a fluent expressive language in tongues. It appeared that the bondage in his mind was broken and the Holy Spirit broke through and the river of living water burst out of him in a flow of tongues. The Lord then told me that it wasn't just my technique in using the steps that achieved it, but the Holy Spirit honouring my and the young guy's faith in Jesus and His promise of giving the baptism with the Spirit to those who asked for it.

I heard just recently that the young guy (14 years old at the time) has gone on for the Lord all these years and is now retired. So the fruit of that encounter with the Holy Spirit has lasted all these years. It occurs to me that a 14 year old boy had more faith to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues than you have...just sayin'...

 

[GTW27]

As I stated, I do not believe that praying/speaking in tongues is for all Christians. God hears my prayers just fine in English. Fater doing it the way you have mentioned and Watchman1 has mentioned, nothing came. That means that the Spirit doesn't always give a prayer language to a Christian.

My prayer language is my native tongue, which God hears just fine. I am good with this.

Blessings in Christ Jesus. I do not disagree with you. not all will. But you should be able see in the words I wrote, my intentions where good. It was just a true testimony.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Being baptised with the Spirit is not rocket science. It is as simple and easy as taking the steps to receive Christ as Saviour. Here are the steps to salvation:
1. Accept that you are a sinner deserving of God's wrath and hell
2. Believe that Jesus bled and died on the Cross to pay the debt to God for your sins.
3. Come boldly to the throne of grace to ask for mercy and God's grace in your time of need for a Saviour.
4. Receive the salvation that Christ hands out to you.
5. Repent of your sinful lifestyle and ask the Holy Spirit to help you forsake the things in your life that are not holy.
6. Take advantage of the means to enable you to become a true disciple of Christ (prayer, learning God's Word, fellowshiping with other believers, etc).

The promise from God is that if you take the steps to salvation you will receive the baptism with the Spirit to give you the power from on high. Here are the steps:

1. Know that it is God's will for you ("Be filled with the Spirit, singing psalms and spiritual songs, making melody in your heart to the Lord').
2. Ask for the baptism with the Spirit. ("Everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving make your requests known to the Lord")
3.Tell the Lord that you receive the baptism with the Spirit (Anything you ask for in the will of God you will receive.)
4. At this stage accept that you are now baptised with the Spirit irrespective of any sense or feeling of it. Also accept that you can now speak in tongues to allow the Spirit to flow out of you.
5. Use your faith to start speaking. It is best to think of an issue that needs real prayer and ask the Lord to guide your tongue to be able to express the prayer in a language you have never learned. As you step out in faith, the Spirit will flow out of you in an expressive and articulate language to the Lord. You will know it is from the Spirit because it will flow out of you without you having any time to make any of it up.

In both cases, we follow the simple steps, and God does the difficult part. In receiving Christ, we follow the steps to salvation, and God does the miracle of us being born again of the Spirit. In the case of the baptism with the Spirit, we again follow the simple steps, and God causes the flow of the Spirit from our innermost being.

 

[YahuahSaves]

One needs more than just our own language to be able to wrestle and travail in fervent and effectual prayer.

You're suggesting God doesn't intercede or answer prayer without the use of tongues which is wrong. tell me where this view of yours is supported by scripture.

1 Timothy 6:3-5

It occurs to me that a 14 year old boy had more faith to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues than you have...just sayin'...

That's Bull^ it sounds like you convinced a 14 year old boy that he needed to speak in tongues to truly be baptised with the Spirit and have an effective prayer life. That's built on coercion, not faith.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You're suggesting God doesn't intercede or answer prayer without the use of tongues which is wrong. tell me where this view of yours is supported by scripture.


That's Bull^ it sounds like you convinced a 14 year old boy that he needed to speak in tongues to truly be baptised with the Spirit and have an effective prayer life. That's built on coercion, not faith.

Let's get one thing clear. I never said that God doesn't answer prayer without the gift of tongues. You are putting words into my mouth. What I said was to show the power of the gift of tongues in intercession. What you are really saying is that you don't want the gift of tongues because it isn't for you. The Scripture says not to quench the Spirit. If you don't agree with what I and others are saying about the baptism with the Spirit in this thread, then go and start your own thread in the Controversial Theology forum to continue your argument against tongues, instead of arguing against everything I say. Paul told the Corinthians not to forbid speaking in tongues. I know that Paul asked "Do all speak in tongues" but he was talking about the ministry gift in church, not private prayer in tongues which he fully supported by saying, "I would you all speak in tongues, yet in the church I would rather...prophesy."

Accusing me of coercing a 14 year old boy to speak in tongues is totally false. He approached me wanting to speak in tongues and all I did was to show him the steps of faith to receive it. He spoke in tongues only when I turned him over to the Lord. It was the Holy Spirit who enabled him to speak in tongues, and you, accusing me, could be in danger of criticising the Holy Spirit who was the One who started the tongues flow from him.

So our exchange is now over. I think any further discussion between us will be of no value.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hey folks. I think that the most productive way of continuing this thread would be for those who have positive testimonies about receiving the baptism of the Spirit and the gift of tongues and the other gifts. I don't want my thread to descend into tit for tat useless arguments about whether the baptism with the Spirit includes tongues or not. This forum is actually for those who believe that the gift of tongues does accompany the baptism with the Spirit and it exists to encourage believers to enter into the place where they can receive the power from on high and be able to manifest the gifts of the Spirit as He directs.

So let's not quench the Spirit in those who are genuinely seeking Him in their lives, and let's not give the wrong impression that just because Paul implied that not all speak in tongues, it doesn't mean that no one should have the gift. I know that there are Charismania groups that are misusing tongues and prophecy and muddying the waters for many people, creating suspicion and fear in those who would otherwise be encouraged to have the faith to receive the genuine gift.

So let's concentrate on testimonies about receiving genuine tongues and prophecy and the wonderful fruit in the lives of people resulting from it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I do not think so. I have never spoken or prayed in any other tongue but my own. Not for a lack of trying either. Prayed for it to come and nothing. I do not believe that all will speak/pray in tongues.

I'm talking about how before we learned the language of our parents as children, we have a period of time where we reasoned in a language that only made sense to us.

This is not what the bible talks about, but this is what a lot of people experience when they speak in tongues. That layer of consciousness that formed prior to learning a common language, is laid bare due to stress or the mind being overwhelmed. However, the gift of tongues is more than this.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What I do when I am helping others to receive the baptism with the Spirit is not theology but it is Bible - the Bible way of receiving what God has for us. What quenches the Spirit in so many people is non-Biblical teaching on the basis of random, out-of-context verses dragged out to support the erroneous teaching.

I tend to be skeptical when anyone from a pentecostalesque background starts talking about erroneous teaching, it's fine as a conversation. However, I just don't accept the authority of pentecostalism.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Actual experience wins over an argument every time.

Okay, will go with experience as someone who speaks in genuine tongues and prayed to interpret as the scripture instructed. My experience wins over what you're saying, thanks for that.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I tend to be skeptical when anyone from a pentecostalesque background starts talking about erroneous teaching, it's fine as a conversation. However, I just don't accept the authority of pentecostalism.

I accept the authority of Scripture. Also, please take notice of my request for positive testimonies and refraining from pointless arguing over denomination labels and diverse theologies.