Orthodox View on Masturbation - Is it a Sin?

[MariaRegina]

This, like the topic of masturbation in general, isn't something that you're likely to find treatises written on.

To extend Aria's answer a bit (if that isn't too presumptuous),consider the theology expressed in marriage, that it should be a reflection of the relationship of the Trinity: two distinct persons in an insoluble relationship. The kind of love that should be expressed is unselfish and completing. The sex act, as the physical expression of that relationship, would necessarily not be individual, but cooperative. To be somewhat base, both parties should be experiencing fulfillment and genuine love for the other--not a fetishized fantasy or exotic objectification. Without getting into specifics of what is allowed or not allowed, I think that is a good guideline, as it would also be relevant to misuse of sex even in traditional modes of intercourse.

Good answer.

 

[isshinwhat]

I agree, very good answer.

 

[Filia Mariae]

I'm very glad you posted this, James. The idea that sex is sinful (within marriage) if procreation is not intended is NOT a traditional Christian belief. Actually, a lot of what some have said sounded very Roman Catholic, as they tend to view marital sex this way.

Catholics do not view marital sex as sinful, but as an image of the relationship between Christ and the Church. Please do not misrepresent our beliefs. Thank you.

 

[Oblio]

Catholics do not view marital sex as sinful, but as an image of the relationship between Christ and the Church. Please do not misrepresent our beliefs. Thank you.

To be fair, there are Catholics who believe this, GDE stated as such and Neal has cleared up that it is not the belief of your Church. Jumping in with accusations of misrepresentation is unecessary, especially after an apology was made.

I have some family members who are devout RC and have indicated they believed it was sin if not for procreation. I assumed it was something that the RCC taught. Sorry! Is this something that the RCC stance has changed over time, like with Vatican II?

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Thanks, Oblio.

While sex is not meant for ONLY for procreation, children should be the natural consequence of it. It is the natural order of things. You can't exactly have children as a result of oral sex. It also seems like a selfish act IMO.

Wow...........this might be starting to get a little too graphic for me.... I guess it's better to ask about these things rather than live in ignorance or deception, though.

 

[Filia Mariae]

To be fair, there are Catholics who believe this,

There are also Orthodox who believe this. There are Jews who believe this. There are Muslims and Hindus who believe this. When I refer to what any religious group believes, I refer to their actual teaching and not the vast spectrum of beliefs which nominal members of that group may hold as it causes less confusion.

GDE stated as such and Neal has cleared up that it is not the belief of your Church. Jumping in with accusations of misrepresentation is unecessary, especially after an apology was made.

I did not see that exchange. I apologize.

 

[galapogos]

I don't think it should be a sin...

I mean these are just natural urges...

 

[walking.away.123]

Catholics do not view marital sex as sinful, but as an image of the relationship between Christ and the Church. Please do not misrepresent our beliefs. Thank you.

I just finished reading Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales. He said that only holy marriage covers up the sin of sex. It was pretty clear that he felt it was sin but that marriage sanctified it. I doubt many hold that opinion today, but that is the history.

 

[MariaRegina]

Yeah, good old St. Augustine

When you read his Confessions you understand why.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Orthodox does not have "venial" and "mortal" sins. All sin is a seperation from God and needs to be confessed.

Just for clarification, all venial and mortal sins are separation from God as well and need to be confessed.

 

[BlestVessel]

Oblio, can you tell me where this is written in Scripture? That we must effort to search our past for sin? A person can sin 5-50 times a day, in heart, in thought, in deed, in lack of deed, how is a memory to recall this? From what I know of Scripture, it says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" and the saved are adopted sons and daughters, members of the bodies of Christ. The Holy Spirit reveals things from the past that need to be resolved, that's part of His purpose in us, to help us and correct us. Yet He doesn't drill our minds, expect us to set aside days and weeks to recount the past, no, we're to trust in HIS work in us and cooperate accordingly. This recalling to memory is indicative of a lack of faith, or so it appears to me.

 

[Matthias]

I wouldn't be too hasty in your opinion. Plus, why does everything HAVE to be in the Bible? The Bible is ultimately open to interpretation. I've found that posting passages from the Bible can cause debates, and whatnot, so I tend to keep away from posting passages from the Bible to back up my beliefs or the beliefs of a specific denomination.

How about the idea of being baptised? There are numerous passages in the Bible on the theme of being baptised and the consequences of not doing so; it's how someone interprets them that matters. Burt might interpret a certain passage as saying this, George might interpret it as saying something else, and Doug might not agree with either of them.

Oblio can post the passages from the Bible for you; the question is if you will believe them to mean what us Orthodox believe them to mean...

 

[Matthias]

Call me stupid, but I thought the idea of sex was to create offspring? Why on earth would a church of any denomination allow the use of condoms and birth control? Surely, God made us able to have sex to have OFFSPRING; and nothing else?

Honestly, I can't see a reason for sex other than to have children. I must be old fashioned...

 

[Matthias]

Honestly, I mean no offence to anyone, I am really curious though. Why is sex allowed in certain churches, for the purpose of enjoyment, and not to make offspring?

 

[Rising_Suns]

From a Catholic standpoint, sex within marriage is meant to be both procreative and unitive; procreative, in the sense that the couple must always be open to new life. And unitive, in the sense that it is an expression of love and a divine reflection of the unity of the spousal relationship between Christ and the Church.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

From a Catholic standpoint, sex within marriage is meant to be both procreative and unitive; procreative, in the sense that the couple must always be open to new life. And unitive, in the sense that it is an expression of love and a divine reflection of the unity of the spousal relationship between Christ and the Church.

I agree, and from what I've read so far Orthodox teaching would support this. Only thing is that the unitive aspect of it leaves some grey area where other sex acts are concerned. One could still claim that love and unity are shared (as well as mutual satisfaction) in non-procreative sex acts. I really don't know the answer to this.

 

[Oblio]

Oblio, can you tell me where this is written in Scripture? That we must effort to search our past for sin? A person can sin 5-50 times a day, in heart, in thought, in deed, in lack of deed, how is a memory to recall this?

We are called to confess our sins and repent. These commandments are throughout Scripture both in example and as a directive. If we do not search and examine our heart completely, how can we be expected to change it's direction (metanoia or what is translated as repent is literally the change of the nous, or the heart. We must examine thoroughly that which we wish to change) ?? The memory recalls what it can, as we progress further towards theosis, the mind becomes more adapt at recalling that which is counter to God's will, that is sin, for it is counter to that which it is progressing towards.

From what I know of Scripture, it says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" and the saved are adopted sons and daughters, members of the bodies of Christ.

... And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
(Acts 16:32)

Now the question is, what is the word of the Lord ?

The Holy Spirit reveals things from the past that need to be resolved, that's part of His purpose in us, to help us and correct us. Yet He doesn't drill our minds, expect us to set aside days and weeks to recount the past, no, we're to trust in HIS work in us and cooperate accordingly. This recalling to memory is indicative of a lack of faith, or so it appears to me.

Perhaps you misunderstand, this life confession is a one time event, prior to Baptism/Chrismation. It is in some ways similar yet more exhaustive than the impromptu confessions given by Evangelicals at 'altar calls'. Later confessions are prepared for with only a search of the recent past (perhaps similar to repeat responses to altar calls). His work in us is precisely that, to help us to see with new eyes that where we fall short, and with a new tongue confess those things to Him. I fail to see how this is indicative of a lack of faith.

With all respect, the idea that we just trust in His work and go along for the ride so to speak with a simple sinners prayer (a general confession) and the Bible under your arm is a modern Protestant idea and has no basis in Christianity.

 

[Rising_Suns]

One could still claim that love and unity are shared (as well as mutual satisfaction) in non-procreative sex acts.

Then from the Catholic Church's standpoint, this would be disordered against God's will, since sex must be both procreative and unitive, not either or.

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Then from the Catholic Church's standpoint, this would be disordered against God's will, since sex must be both procreative and unitive, not either or.

Makes sense. What if the couple is infertile? Does that mean they're not suppose to have "relations"?

 

[Oblio]

Then from the Catholic Church's standpoint, this would be disordered against God's will, since sex must be both procreative and unitive, not either or.

So does that mean that catholics believe that sex, for purposes other than procreation is sinful. This seems to fly counter to Carly's assertion that the Church does not teach that sex for purposes other than procreation is sinful.