Orthodox Jew stopping by temporarily

[Slibhin]

View attachment 346312

Okay?

 

[Yusuphhai]

Okay?

In my understanding, Jews tacitly agree to the Passover Mouse because Jews need to be understood. China's knowledge of Judaism is less than one percent of that of the United States, and I also have to endure misunderstandings due to a lack of common knowledge.

 

[Grip Docility]

To be honest not really, but I try to get through it once a year. When my husband was killed I spent a considerable amount of time reading Job. I'm usually up for anything if one wishes to discuss.

I am so sorry about your loss! Job is one of the most important books, in my mind! It genuinely lays a relational idea of how HaShem wishes no evil upon us, in a world chalked full of it… and spirits that are most definitely malevolent!

Would you do me the honor of maybe starting a long term discussion on the book of Job? I am a mega Goy, Jewish by blood… but you have my word that I will keep it Jewish. Your deep insight into Job from studying it so fervently would do much good!

I created a thread in an area that isn't for "Christians Only", that I believe applies to you and could foster a place for you to share and discuss matters. Please take a look at it and drop a post there if you are interested... This is the Link <-

 

[Lukaris]

From post #52:


“The laws of Noah basically means what is required of a non-Jew by G-d. Don't kill, steal, don't blaspheme, be just, don't be cruel to animals and so on.”


No theology debate intended, these are actually the basic moral commandments of Christianity per Jesus Christ ( Matthew 19:16-19 etc.) St. Paul (Romans 13:8-10). These apply primarily to the individual person as in Romans 2:1-29 as opposed to the greater focus of humanity in general one finds in Romans 1 & 3 for ex.

Again, I am not intending subtle theology here. I believe the 7 laws of Noah have often ( not always) gotten lost in the shuffle in Christian relations with the world. C.S. Lewis was observant of this underlying moral code and his book: The Abolition of Man is basically about this.


The thing is some sort of paradigm shift or whatever is underway and probably greater human conflict.

 

[Slibhin]

In my understanding, Jews tacitly agree to the Passover Mouse because Jews need to be understood. China's knowledge of Judaism is less than one percent of that of the United States, and I also have to endure misunderstandings due to a lack of common knowledge.

Passover mouse??

 

[Slibhin]

From post #52:


“The laws of Noah basically means what is required of a non-Jew by G-d. Don't kill, steal, don't blaspheme, be just, don't be cruel to animals and so on.”


No theology debate intended, these are actually the basic moral commandments of Christianity per Jesus Christ ( Matthew 19:16-19 etc.) St. Paul (Romans 13:8-10). These apply primarily to the individual person as in Romans 2:1-29 as opposed to the greater focus of humanity in general one finds in Romans 1 & 3 for ex.

Again, I am not intending subtle theology here. I believe the 7 laws of Noah have often ( not always) gotten lost in the shuffle in Christian relations with the world. C.S. Lewis was observant of this underlying moral code and his book: The Abolition of Man is basically about this.


The thing is some sort of paradigm shift or whatever is underway and probably greater human conflict.

It's not lost, just ignored. My experience with evangelicals is they consider anything their bible says as a suggestion. Since supposedly Jesus is going to save them merely for having the correct thoughts in their head, i.e. accepting Jesus as their saviour, conduct doesn't really matter. Anytime I've pointed out to a specific verse, even in their own bible, that contradicts or repudiates their behaviour I almost always get a bunch of lawyering and asterisks. They always somehow manage to come around to continuing the contradictory and pernicious behaviour.

"Well I know Jesus and the Torah specifically said to give to the poor, but he actually meant pull yourself up by your bootstraps and was promoting rugged individualism".

"Well when Jesus said he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword, he actually meant arm yourself to the teeth and shoot first"

"Well when Jesus said don't divorce he actually meant it's perfectly fine for your pastor to be on his second or third marriage as long as he's sorry."

"Well, when Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter heaven, he actually meant he wants you to be as rich as possible."

"When Jesus said give to Caesar, what he actually meant was try not to pay your taxes."

"Well, when Jesus said what you do unto the least of me, and the Torah says to feed the hungry it actually means to vote in people who cancel food stamps, free health care and free school lunches."

They're don't say it this bluntly but, essentially, this is what I am told over and over. I attribute the shift to the political nihilism and infinite feedback loop of rage in right wing American media, along with the fact that many evangelicals seem to live in a pretty self insulating information bubble.

*I know some people are going to smash the report button. This is MY EXPERIENCE and not a broad declaration.

 

[Grip Docility]

Just so you know, goy is a slur. I am not expecting people on a Christian forum to "keep things Jewish"... unlike most of the evangelicals I meet I'm not so soft that I can't handle being contradicted. However I have already been given a non-expiring warning for that thread, so it's clear no one here wants to hear what I think.

It's interesting. On other forums I've been to such as Jewish or atheist run I see evangelicals all the time trying to convert and spread their message, and the users there will engage them. When you go on a Christian forum however, if you in any way say something contrary to what they believe you get banned, censored or shut down immediately. My conclusion is their beliefs must be extremely fragile.

I’ll be honest… if faith is rooted in a building… it’s pretty much store bought.

That Job type faith on the other hand… that is suffered for and well tested.

You saw the thread I opened for you?

 

[Lukaris]

It's not lost, just ignored. My experience with evangelicals is they consider anything their bible says as a suggestion. Since supposedly Jesus is going to save them merely for having the correct thoughts in their head, i.e. accepting Jesus as their saviour, conduct doesn't really matter. Anytime I've pointed out to a specific verse, even in their own bible, that contradicts or repudiates their behaviour I almost always get a bunch of lawyering and asterisks. They always somehow manage to come around to continuing the contradictory and pernicious behaviour.

"Well I know Jesus and the Torah specifically said to give to the poor, but he actually meant pull yourself up by your bootstraps and was promoting rugged individualism".

"Well when Jesus said he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword, he actually meant arm yourself to the teeth and shoot first"

"Well when Jesus said don't divorce he actually meant it's perfectly fine for your pastor to be on his second or third marriage as long as he's sorry."

"Well, when Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter heaven, he actually meant he wants you to be as rich as possible."

"When Jesus said give to Caesar, what he actually meant was try not to pay your taxes."

"Well, when Jesus said what you do unto the least of me, and the Torah says to feed the hungry it actually means to vote in people who cancel food stamps, free health care and free school lunches."

They're don't say it this bluntly but, essentially, this is what I am told over and over. I attribute the shift to the political nihilism and infinite feedback loop of rage in right wing American media, along with the fact that many evangelicals seem to live in a pretty self insulating information bubble.

*I know some people are going to smash the report button. This is MY EXPERIENCE and not a broad declaration.

I am sure you have had your fill from certain people who are Christian but need to work on their personal disposition. People vary in all groups like within Islam, Hinduism, secularism etc.

 

[Slibhin]

I’ll be honest… if faith is rooted in a building… it’s pretty much store bought.

That Job type faith on the other hand… that is suffered for and well tested.

You saw the thread I opened for you?

I saw it, but like I said I'm not allowed to discuss my theology here.

 

[Grip Docility]

I saw it, but like I said I'm not allowed to discuss my theology here.

Okay, respect.

 

[Slibhin]

Okay, respect.

Sorry. If I get the go ahead from administration then I'm happy to talk.

 

[Grip Docility]

Sorry. If I get the go ahead from administration then I'm happy to talk.

Just drop a mention and I would genuinely enjoy learning your perspective on the Tanakh…

All blessings in HaShem to you!

 

[Yusuphhai]

Passover mouse??

The Passover Mouse by Joy Nelkin Wieder, illustrated by Shahar Kober

Find it: Bookshop | Amazon

This sweet and laugh-out-loud Passover tale, taken from a story in the Babylonian Talmud, emphasizes themes of kindness, forgiveness and community. The families in a Jewish village have finished sweeping their houses of any traces of chametz (leavened bread) when a mouse grabs a piece of bread and travels from house to house, thus undoing all the hard work of the villagers. The community must work together to get ready for the seder, chasing after the mouse, enduring the complications of a cat and making sure all the crumbs gone.

 

[oikonomia]

I've been aware of this forum for quite a while because my Christian sister in law uses it. I held off on joining for numerous reasons but now I have decided to stop by and post some rambling.

I just spent a couple of years on several Christian forums, mostly American Evangelicals, and have come away with all kinds of new insights and opinions. Most of them are negative, but educational none the less. I'm working on an essay about my experience with these groups that I may have published and thought I would share my thoughts here over a series of posts to see what people think. Because this forum is pretty diverse I am hoping to get some diverse opinions as well.

About me:

I'm an Orthodox Jew
I'm a widow (yes at 27 years old)
I was born in Israel, raised in Ireland
I work as a multimedia editor
I was once a professional model
I was married to a Christian husband (I don't recommend interfaith marriages)

Good you come by to participate.

I use to frequent Jews4Jesus where at least one strong Judaism believer (Orthodox or not I am not sure) and
I had discussions. I have not been back there for years. But they did not at all shy away from allowing debates with
professed "anti-missionary" Jews. The discussion was I think constructive and interesting.

My God is the man Jesus. I met God on an intimate and personal level the day I got subdued by this gentle Savior.
He subued me with longsuffering patience and allowing me to go as far as I wanted supposedly running away from God.

Or I thought I was leaving the Christian faith far behind and launching into Zen, Sin, psychodelics, and just seaching for the meaning of it all. I had a girl friend type who infuriated me when she told me "You're a lost sheep." She was a Christian.
I went home very angry that she had called me some kind of "lost sheep."
"I'm no lost sheep!" I said to myself in anger.

Some months latter guess what? I found out I was indeed a lost sheep.
I never intended for God to do ANYTHING but help me out with a very knotty problem.
My attitude was like "Don't go away too far now. I may need you again."
But I never imagined I would so encrease in love of Yeshua - the Son of God.

That's enough for a little introduction. But one of my hobbies is putting the Scritpure to singable songs
for spiritual nourishment and memorization. I do mostly New Testament. But following if you're interested are a couple
of Hebrew Bible passages. One is a quote in the NT book of Hebrews of a Jeremiah passage. English of course is the translation.
I do not read or write ancient Hebrew.

 

[FireDragon76]

I appreciate the well wishes. I noticed there are very few religious Jews here so I am hoping I can lend something productive to the community and always welcome any questions about the Torah, the Talmud or Judaism in general.

A little more about me:
- I am 27.
- I was widowed almost 3 years ago.
- I have a degree in multimedia and work as an editor and also do design work.
- I am a professional model and have been to many countries because of this career, including Japan, Korea, Finland, Sweden, the USA, Norway, Germany, Canada (where I currently live), Italy, the UK.
- I was born in Israel and raised in Ireland.
- I've been an Orthodox Jew (or modern Orthodox, whatever that means) my whole life.

My likes:
- I love animals, especially guinea pigs and capybaras.
- I love clothes and have piles I have never even gotten around to wearing.
- I like movies, especially horror and mystery.
- My favourite music genres are rock, metal and classical.
- I like theater. My favourite plays are Wicked and Rent.
- I love Reading, usually about the Torah or Jewish history but other subjects also.

My dislikes:
- Animal cruelty.
- Cruelty to children.
- "Messianic" Jews/Jews for Jesus types.
- Racists and assorted bigots.
- People who can't be bothered to look things up.
- Ignorance in general.
- Christian Zionists.
- The MAGA cult.
- Anti-science/anti-vaxxers.

I don't like those things either, generally speaking.

Peace and welcome to you.

 

[Slibhin]

Good you come by to participate.

I use to frequent Jews4Jesus where at least one strong Judaism believer (Orthodox or not I am not sure) and
I had discussions. I have not been back there for years. But they did not at all shy away from allowing debates with
professed "anti-missionary" Jews. The discussion was I think constructive and interesting.

My God is the man Jesus. I met God on an intimate and personal level the day I got subdued by this gentle Savior.
He subued me with longsuffering patience and allowing me to go as far as I wanted supposedly running away from God.

Or I thought I was leaving the Christian faith far behind and launching into Zen, Sin, psychodelics, and just seaching for the meaning of it all. I had a girl friend type who infuriated me when she told me "You're a lost sheep." She was a Christian.
I went home very angry that she had called me some kind of "lost sheep."
"I'm no lost sheep!" I said to myself in anger.

Some months latter guess what? I found out I was indeed a lost sheep.
I never intended for God to do ANYTHING but help me out with a very knotty problem.
My attitude was like "Don't go away too far now. I may need you again."
But I never imagined I would so encrease in love of Yeshua - the Son of God.

That's enough for a little introduction. But one of my hobbies is putting the Scritpure to singable songs
for spiritual nourishment and memorization. I do mostly New Testament. But following if you're interested are a couple
of Hebrew Bible passages. One is a quote in the NT book of Hebrews of a Jeremiah passage. English of course is the translation.
I do not read or write ancient Hebrew.

I am not an antimissionary. I am very libertarian in most ways and think people are free to believe as they wish. I don't like Jews for Jesus and Messianic "Jews" because they target and pilfer the Jewish community.

 

[FireDragon76]

Oh, so when HaShem said to keep his laws and statutes he actually meant not to keep his laws and statutes?

The Torah says in Leviticus 19:15 to judge people fairly and not show favouritism. "Never judge others" is a statement that does not appear in the Torah or the entire Tanakh. We do however have a teaching that goes "Do not judge others until you've arrived in their place", in others words walked a mile in their shoes. Therefore I guess I am pretty Orthodox since at least I've actually read the Torah and try to follow it.

I don't think Christianity and Judaism necessarily differ on this point in essential ways. Being a "respecter of persons" and partiality are also condemned in the Christian Scriptures in the New Testament.

What Jesus taught concerning judgement was that what we judge about others will be judged against us by the same standard. People just say "judge not" as a shorthard for that expression, often times.

You were obviously not a religious Jew and I don't say that as a dig or insult. G-d deals with sin through sincere contrition and repentance. There is no temple therefore sacrifices are not possible... nor are they required and never were. Hosea 6:6 says G-d wants kindness and devotion to him more then sacrifices... and there are many times where he forgave people without benefit of such.

I think one Christian response to this is to say that is certainly true and we don't disagree with the Hebrew prophets. Jesus did not have to die for God to forgive sin, as God isn't bound to something outside God's nature, but we believe it was in keeping with Jesus' mission in the world to be crucified and killed, to liberate us from the power of sin and death.

A minority of Christians, particularly certain Evangelicals, are very attached to the notion of sacrifices being necessary to forgive sin, but often times this goes hand in hand with a myth of redemptive violence and scapegoating. I don't believe God endorses violence of any kind (I'm a Vegan and I believe in a Just Peace or Reverence for Life ethic), so I don't follow that theology. Alot of the love of authoritarianism and violence of American-style Evangelicals is due to American culture in general being violent and authoritarian, unfortunately (just keep in mind many American Christians are such for cultural reasons and aren't particularly educated or critical in their approach to religion).

 

[oikonomia]

I am not an antimissionary. I am very libertarian in most ways and think people are free to believe as they wish. I don't like Jews for Jesus and Messianic "Jews" because they target and pilfer the Jewish community.

It is great that they announce the gospel to their Jewish people.
God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.

Now you would expect me a to say that on a Christian forum wouldn't you?

If by pilfer you mean swindle or extract money in some devious way, I don't endorse that.

 

[Slibhin]

It is great that they announce the gospel to their Jewish people.
God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.

Now you would expect me a to say that on a Christian forum wouldn't you?

If by pilfer you mean swindle or extract money in some devious way, I don't endorse that.

I don't think it's great, especially when they follow me being pushy or yelling. By pilfer I mean trying to convince Jews to convert and leave the community.

 

[Slibhin]

I don't think Christianity and Judaism necessarily differ on this point in essential ways. Being a "respecter of persons" and partiality are also condemned in the Christian Scriptures in the New Testament.

What Jesus taught concerning judgement was that what we judge about others will be judged against us by the same standard. People just say "judge not" as a shorthard for that expression, often times.



I think one Christian response to this is to say that is certainly true and we don't disagree with the Hebrew prophets. Jesus did not have to die for God to forgive sin, as God isn't bound to something outside God's nature, but we believe it was in keeping with Jesus' mission in the world to be crucified and killed, to liberate us from the power of sin and death.

A minority of Christians, particularly certain Evangelicals, are very attached to the notion of sacrifices being necessary to forgive sin, but often times this goes hand in hand with a myth of redemptive violence and scapegoating. I don't believe God endorses violence of any kind (I'm a Vegan and I believe in a Just Peace or Reverence for Life ethic), so I don't follow that theology. Alot of the love of authoritarianism and violence of American-style Evangelicals is due to American culture in general being violent and authoritarian, unfortunately (just keep in mind many American Christians are such for cultural reasons and aren't particularly educated or critical in their approach to religion).

American evangelicals live in a bubble filled with people blaming "liberals" and immigrants as the source of their problems and grievances. I'm not even convinced many of them even actually believe in their bible since they ignore and discard it when convenient. They have become rage filled, political nihilists who want to control everyone else and enforce their religion through force of law.