On Abortion, and Political Parties

[Stephen3141]

This post follows an article written by Russell Moore,
editor of Christianity Today.

Christianity Today Editor Rips Republicans For Lacking 'Moral Vision' In Abortion Stances

With the cancerous growth of political tribes in America, the true voice of historical Christians is being subsumed by ludicrous conspiracy theories, and golden sneakers.

Although Biden claims to be a Catholic Christian, his loyalty to the Democratic Party's position on abortion, is completely at odds with being a Catholic Christian.

Although Trump claims to be sensitive to Evangelical Protestant Christians, his logically incoherent statements on the law and morality are incompatible both with historic Christianity, and the historic definition of a fair rule of law.

It's time that ALL Christian groups in America realize that there is no American political party that represents them. And this grinding fact, is clear on the topic of abortion.

Russell Moore, editor of Christianity Today, is right. American Christians should never let the political parties presume to speak for historical Christians.

American Christians need to vote for a candidate that will uphold the fair rule of law in America, regardless of the outcome of court decisions. This, at least, will uphold freedom of religion for Christians in America. That is a basic starting point.

Then, at the state level, Christians should be quite clear that our bodies are not our own -- they belong to God. And we have a moral-ethical OUGHT to live in our bodies, in a way that is righteous and brings honor to God. This contradicts the lawless posturing of Donald Trump, who thinks that the law of the land is only valid if it acquits him of dozens of felony charges. This contradicts the immoral tolerance by Joe Biden of abortion on demand, which historic Christians have always associated with murder of a human being.

The teaching of the Bible on how we ought to use our bodies, is offensive to BOTH of the caricatured policies of the American political parties.

And American Christians must come to grips with the fact that orthodox Christian teaching has now become offensive to both of the main political parties.

American Christians must stop voting for political parties, and start to vote strategically first to uphold a fair rule of law, and to uphold public safety, but then also to support freedom of religion for orthodox Christian groups that are increasingly treated as second class citizens.

And Christians in America need to reject the political rhetoric of the political parties, that claims to uphold Christian values and morality. The behavior of the House is despicable. The behavior of Donald Trump is despicable. The claim by Joe Biden to be a Catholic Christian is despicable.

Christians need to extricate themselves from their attachments to either of these political parties. And Christians need to start voting as a completely independent block of voters, cut free of the childish conspiracy theories that Trump trumpets, or the fake Christian associations that Biden claims to have.

 

[Yttrium]

Russell Moore, editor of Christianity Today, is right. American Christians should never let the political parties presume to speak for historical Christians.

Russel Moore should never presume to speak for all Christians.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Those exceptions? “Rape, incest and declining poll numbers,”

That's a pretty sick burn, but I think it'll be lost on a crowd that largely turned their backs on him for rejecting Trump.

 

[Laodicean60]

The teaching of the Bible on how we ought to use our bodies

The key word is "our" and yet we worry about others? How about Love and Prayer keeping our mouths shut and letting God do the rest? I still think God can do it.

 

[Fantine]

Christians aren't an independent bloc. The difference between evangelicals and mainstream Protestants is a chasm.
Catholic voters split equally between the two parties.
There are no homogeneous churches.
If your theoretical independent bloc tried to micro manage my vote, I would still evaluate things on my own.

 

[BCP1928]

This post follows an article written by Russell Moore,
editor of Christianity Today.

Christianity Today Editor Rips Republicans For Lacking 'Moral Vision' In Abortion Stances

With the cancerous growth of political tribes in America, the true voice of historical Christians is being subsumed by ludicrous conspiracy theories, and golden sneakers.

Although Biden claims to be a Catholic Christian, his loyalty to the Democratic Party's position on abortion, is completely at odds with being a Catholic Christian.

Although Trump claims to be sensitive to Evangelical Protestant Christians, his logically incoherent statements on the law and morality are incompatible both with historic Christianity, and the historic definition of a fair rule of law.

It's time that ALL Christian groups in America realize that there is no American political party that represents them. And this grinding fact, is clear on the topic of abortion.

Russell Moore, editor of Christianity Today, is right. American Christians should never let the political parties presume to speak for historical Christians.

American Christians need to vote for a candidate that will uphold the fair rule of law in America, regardless of the outcome of court decisions. This, at least, will uphold freedom of religion for Christians in America. That is a basic starting point.

Then, at the state level, Christians should be quite clear that our bodies are not our own -- they belong to God. And we have a moral-ethical OUGHT to live in our bodies, in a way that is righteous and brings honor to God. This contradicts the lawless posturing of Donald Trump, who thinks that the law of the land is only valid if it acquits him of dozens of felony charges. This contradicts the immoral tolerance by Joe Biden of abortion on demand, which historic Christians have always associated with murder of a human being.

The teaching of the Bible on how we ought to use our bodies, is offensive to BOTH of the caricatured policies of the American political parties.

And American Christians must come to grips with the fact that orthodox Christian teaching has now become offensive to both of the main political parties.

American Christians must stop voting for political parties, and start to vote strategically first to uphold a fair rule of law, and to uphold public safety, but then also to support freedom of religion for orthodox Christian groups that are increasingly treated as second class citizens.

And Christians in America need to reject the political rhetoric of the political parties, that claims to uphold Christian values and morality. The behavior of the House is despicable. The behavior of Donald Trump is despicable. The claim by Joe Biden to be a Catholic Christian is despicable.

Christians need to extricate themselves from their attachments to either of these political parties. And Christians need to start voting as a completely independent block of voters, cut free of the childish conspiracy theories that Trump trumpets, or the fake Christian associations that Biden claims to have.

Biden may be a fake Christian as you see it but as President he has no mandate to criminalize a Christian sin for non-Christian citizens of a secular republic.

 

[camille70]

The magazine used to have a more neutral stance.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480

 

[Pommer]

Christians aren't an independent bloc. The difference between evangelicals and mainstream Protestants is a chasm.
Catholic voters split equally between the two parties.
There are no homogeneous churches.
If your theoretical independent bloc tried to micro manage my vote, I would still evaluate things on my own.

Once the most “correct Christians” are in control, then we’ll see things “improve”, yessiree.

 

[Pommer]

The magazine used to have a more neutral stance.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480

I’m sorry, how is reporting on verifiable history from 50ish years ago too “biased”?

 

[Stephen3141]

My take on Russell Moore's article, is that SUDDENLY, many Christians in
America are realizing that Trump is not a representative of Christian
moral-ethical values.

My point is that neither political party in America, represents Christian
ME values. And, that the fair rule of law in America, needs to be upheld
in America, to guarantee freedom of religion in America.

Some of the responses here, are not dealing with these basic assertions.
They may be relevant ME topics, but do not deal with they basic sea
change in the attitude of Christianity Today.

I think that Christians in America, should NOT automatically identify with
either of the main political parties in America.

 

[Stephen3141]

Biden may be a fake Christian as you see it but as President he has no mandate to criminalize a Christian sin for non-Christian citizens of a secular republic.

I'm not sure what you're asserting.

The president in the United States does not write the laws, and so cannot criminalize
anything.

As for the rule of law, ANY fair rule of law criminalizes somethings, and promotes
some other things. If you claim that a fair rule of law CANNOT criminalize ANYTHING,
then you are standing against most moral-ethical thinkers throughout history.

What exactly, are you asserting?

 

[Hans Blaster]

My take on Russell Moore's article, is that SUDDENLY, many Christians in
America are realizing that Trump is not a representative of Christian
moral-ethical values.

Then they are rather slow on the uptake or just didn't pay attention. Whatever variety of Christian moral-ethical values you subscribe to or express, Trump never really fit any of them.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Then they are rather slow on the uptake or just didn't pay attention. Whatever variety of Christian moral-ethical values you subscribe to or express, Trump never really fit any of them.

This is why I was against Trump in 2016. Heck, my position on him even got me temp-banned from my favorite political form, a member of which I have been since 1997. But then he became president. Based on what he did as president I consider him the best president of the last 120 years. But I wouldn't want my sister marrying him.

One of the logical flaws a lot of us Christians share when it comes to selecting political leaders is that we are looking for Jesus II. Problem is, when you are limited to normal human beings in the talent pool, perfection is the enemy of excellence.

Maybe that is why God still called a murderer and adulterer a man after His own heart.

 

[Fantine]

Your opinion of Trump's presidency is refuted by almost all of his cabinet members and staffers who use words like moron, incompetent and worse to describe his "leadership."

 

[Laodicean60]

One of the logical flaws a lot of us Christians share when it comes to selecting political leaders is that we are looking for Jesus II. Problem is, when you are limited to normal human beings in the talent pool, perfection is the enemy of excellence.

Maybe that is why God still called a murderer and adulterer a man after His own heart.

Preach it, brother! I thank God for his love because of my adultery. Maybe David was cut some slack because the Lord knew David loved him, Psalms is proof of it. It's not all about my actions. I used to think we needed more Christians in government but no longer because looking back for 50 years we were hard-loaded with "Christians" in government and look at today. I think we need to get all those old tractors out government put some youth. The millennials are smart or at least the ones I've met.

 

[Nithavela]

The key word is "our" and yet we worry about others?

I think the word "our" in that sentence implies the bodies of all of mankind, collectively. Even the bodies of non-christians should be used according to the standards of a certain sub-group of christianity.

 

[BCP1928]

I'm not sure what you're asserting.

The president in the United States does not write the laws, and so cannot criminalize
anything.

As for the rule of law, ANY fair rule of law criminalizes somethings, and promotes
some other things. If you claim that a fair rule of law CANNOT criminalize ANYTHING,
then you are standing against most moral-ethical thinkers throughout history.

What exactly, are you asserting?

That abortion being a Christian sin is not enough of a reason to criminalize it for the non-Christians citizens of a secular state.

 

[Fantine]

That abortion being a Christian sin is not enough of a reason to criminalize it for the non-Christians citizens of a secular state.

And some mainstream Protestant denominations do not prohibit abortion.

 

[Laodicean60]

My take on Russell Moore's article, is that SUDDENLY, many Christians in
America are realizing that Trump is not a representative of Christian
moral-ethical values.

My point is that neither political party in America, represents Christian
ME values. And, that the fair rule of law in America, needs to be upheld
in America, to guarantee freedom of religion in America.

Some of the responses here, are not dealing with these basic assertions.
They may be relevant ME topics, but do not deal with they basic sea
change in the attitude of Christianity Today.

I think that Christians in America, should NOT automatically identify with
either of the main political parties in America.

I kind of agree with you because it's tribalism. Humans like to be in tribes so it takes a special person to step outside their comfort zone. I'd like to think this human evolved from my animal instincts. Except for my Cowboys even when they were snorting cocaine.

I have to ask when are your morals my morals because every Christian will be shown their shortcomings and I have plenty. But Russel's persuasion can go too extreme like everything else in this country, Christians resort to names like "baby killer". I've heard and thought that back in the day. I think we should worry about our salvation and let others work out their own.

"I think he’s trying to make this intentionally murky,” Moore said. “The problem is that a pro-life vision requires a moral vision, requires persuasion as to why every human life is valuable. And that requires a particular view of human dignity, of vulnerability. And we don’t have that here."

For whatever reason Trump chose his stance on abortion law, I don't care because I agree. That law is imposing morals on people who'd like to live otherwise (Liberty?). You can see also the extremism on the right and left if you look for it. Peace

 

[FireDragon76]

Christians aren't an independent bloc. The difference between evangelicals and mainstream Protestants is a chasm.

It's more at the denominational level, that you see wildly different politics from Mainline Protestants. Depending on the denomination, you can find congregants that are Evangelical-adjacent in many Mainline Protestant churches.