Not liking this verse, James 5:14-16, elders praying for the sick,

[Curiousmind]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

If you don't like a verse, either you are reading it wrong, or you are wrong. God's word is right.

But as to your comments, yes, people can abuse it, but there is life in the body of Christ, and this is God's prescribed method. There is, frankly, more of what seems to me the risk of superstition than of abuse of power with the attempt to follow this passage.

But, to your point, if elders are not trustworthy, but abusing power, they must be rebuked and corrected, even if only temporarily. If you think someone is like that, take care of business. Talk to the other elders, and if possible, bring witnesses. And this is to be done with the purpose of correcting and restoring —not of permanent dismissal, unless it is grievous and habitual.

Each individual gathering of the body of believers should have this kind of thing already prepared for in their formal constitution.

As for the elders, there are many many more pitfalls than just this possible abuse.

 

[timothyu]

The whole idea behind Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom is we are to put self behind and focus on others. Self interest is what got Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden

 

[Palmfever]

Not sure why you would have an issue with others praying for you. God has promised never to leave us not forsake us. When Christ said, “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” He did not suggest that he wouldn't be when we are alone. It helps sometimes to have assistance. I believe the key is in verse 16; 'The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.'

When Paul said, “... a messenger of Satan to trouble me—so that I would not become arrogant. 8 I asked the Lord three times about this, that it would depart from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is enough for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness,” He clearly is saying that HE personally prayed, he did not imply that he came before any group of men for prayer. Some may wish to argue that statement, but then some just love to argue.
I've had people ask if they can pray for me. My response is, 'I will take all the prayer I can get.' So, If you are a praying man, I'd appreciate the following prayers:
More of:
His Spirit

Love

wisdom

perspicacity

understanding

Patience

tolerance for the deaf and blind in this world

a better voice and magnificent guitar skills.

The joy of the Lord

Every gift given unto man in scripture including any implied
I believe that last statement was inclusive enough.

I'm not being selfish, I want it all.
Many of these requests overlap. You can see that if we have the first two, we have access to the important ones. Others I suspect, will be a lifetime challenge.

So what if some are prideful.
Philippians 1:15-18
It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

In Christ

 

[bèlla]

Why wouldn't you like a verse that encourages the sick to seek prayer and support from their community? Elders wouldn't be the average person who calls themself a Christian. They're mature members of the body whose lives bear witness to their faith and service. They know how to get a prayer through and that's what you want.

When I'm in need I share my requests with prayer warriors. They have a deep abiding relationship with the Lord and they're on their knees frequently. They know how to wrestle and labor in prayer in ways others don't. They won't throw in the towel or get upset. They persevere.

Some situations require a joining of hands. Sometimes you need another to stand in the gap on your behalf. That's what the verse is describing. It's a prayer shield. If you're unfamiliar with that term reference my post.

There's a difference between praying for something and praying in faith as if it's already done. That's what they're doing.

~bella

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

The other thing 'not to like' is that these elders can pray for you and your sins can be forgiven. But it's just one of those inconvenient verses where the faith doesn't fit our ideas quite right.

 

[Curiousmind]

If you don't like a verse, either you are reading it wrong, or you are wrong. God's word is right.

But as to your comments, yes, people can abuse it, but there is life in the body of Christ, and this is God's prescribed method. There is, frankly, more of what seems to me the risk of superstition than of abuse of power with the attempt to follow this passage.

But, to your point, if elders are not trustworthy, but abusing power, they must be rebuked and corrected, even if only temporarily. If you think someone is like that, take care of business. Talk to the other elders, and if possible, bring witnesses. And this is to be done with the purpose of correcting and restoring —not of permanent dismissal, unless it is grievous and habitual.

Each individual gathering of the body of believers should have this kind of thing already prepared for in their formal constitution.

As for the elders, there are many many more pitfalls than just this possible abuse.

If I was an elder, I would just pray and anoint the sick without expecting anything in return. If I cant think like this, I would not become an elder. I dont want to depend on no human but depend on God alone.

 

[Bobber]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others,

You can pray for you own healing Mk 11:24 states you can what things soever you desire when you pray believe that you receive them and you shall have them. I've known lots that have been healed not going to the elders, but is is available as a choice. But stay away from saying you don't like verses of scripture. God apparently liked the idea of having put it in the Bible.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

I believe this verse is referring back to what Jesus Christ of Nazareth said:

"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

 

[CoreyD]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Hi there.
I really appreciate your honesty here.

I can understand your concerns, especially in a world where "many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 and Jesus warned to be on the lookout for them. Matthew 7:15

The elders in the Christian congregation are a special provision, and also a loving provision, because they are to care for God's sheep, as caring shepherds do.
What sheep doesn't need loving shepherds? Without a shepherd the sheep will be lost, and even killed, especially by that roaring lion. 1 Peter 5:8

The scriptures in the Bible about how and why God provides shepherds in the congregation, are too numerous to mention now. However, here are at least three. John 21:16; Hebrews 13:17; 1 Peter 5:1-4

Regarding the application of James 5:13-16, you notice James starts out with, "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms."
So, this helps us appreciate that the elders expect each person to go to God in prayer, on that one's behalf. So the person must have faith in God, and rely on God to help them through their sufferings.

James then says, "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

This is obviously referring to a spiritual sickness - that is, the person is in need of spiritual help.
If they themselves recognize it, they are urged to seek the help of the elders, so that they do not drift away from God, and their faith be shipwrecked.

This is seen clearly from the words that follow - "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."
The person may need to confess a weakness they are struggling with, or they may be slowing down in their service, or losing their joy, etc.
Whatever the case, they are in urgent need of spiritual support, and this is what spiritually mature individuals in the congregation, can supply. The elders are spiritually qualified, so they 'fit the bill'.
Galatians 6:1

The elders In the Christian congregation under Christ's leadership, are a gift from Christ himself, which his sheep are truly thankful for. Ephesian 4:8

 

[timothyu]

The elders In the Christian congregation under Christ's leadership, are a gift from Christ himself, which his sheep are truly thankful for. Ephesian 4:8

When they stick to scripture and not enforcing the tenets of their particular church. Scripture has taken second place and people have been taught to defend their denomination first and foremost, a huge diversion from being open to scriptural truth. The Adversary works discretely.

 

[CoreyD]

When they stick to scripture and not enforcing the tenets of their particular church. Scripture has taken second place and people have been taught to defend their denomination first and foremost, a huge diversion from being open to scriptural truth. The Adversary works discretely.

This can happen, of course.
This is why it is important for us to know if what we are learning is the truth from the scriptures.
We will then know the Christian congregation Christ heads.

Once we know this, we appreciate the gifts, for we learn from scripture that God and Christ, corrects, refines, or removes those whom they give as gifts.
So even if they allow these gifts to function for a time before taking the necessary action, the sheep take the attitude of king David, who said of Saul the king, "And he said to his men, “The LORD forbid that I should do this thing to my master, the LORD’s anointed, to stretch out my hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD.”" 1 Samuel 24:6

They submit, leaving any other action to God, and Christ.

 

[timothyu]

We will then know the Christian congregation Christ heads.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

[CoreyD]

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Yes.

 

[Paul4JC]

Your problem is not the verse, but that you have isolated it from the context of the passage.

[Jas 5:13-18 ESV] Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.


Let him pray

Let them pray

Pray for one another

Elijah was like us, he prayed.

Prayer has no boundaries, so pray.

Pray alone, pray with others.

Pray!

 

[AlexB23]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Hello, my fellow Christian. You are forgetting about Mark 11:24 as well, as @Bobber kindly pointed out. James and Mark are both important in the context of prayer for healing, but they emphasize different aspects. I'll start with Mark, which talks about praying for ourselves.


Mark 11:24 says, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." This verse emphasizes the importance of having faith and believing in the power of God to heal us. It encourages individual prayer and trusting God for healing, regardless of whether or not we have church leaders praying for us.

On the other hand, James 5:14-16 says, "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working." This passage emphasizes the role of church leaders in praying for the sick and anointing them with oil. It does not necessarily contradict Mark 11:24, but rather complements it by recognizing the importance of community and spiritual support in times of need.

There are indeed other Bible verses that allow us to pray on our own for healing or for others. For example, Jesus himself taught his disciples to pray for healing when he sent them out on mission (Matthew 10:8). In addition, several passages in the New Testament encourage individual prayer for healing and well-being. For instance, Paul urges the Corinthians to "pray for one another" as we are one body (1 Corinthians 12), and he himself prays for the Ephesian believers that they may be healed of their infirmities (Ephesians 1:15-23).

So, while James 5:14-16 highlights the importance of church leaders praying for the sick, it does not negate the role of individual prayer. Both are important aspects of Christian life and faith.

 

[com7fy8]

Hi,

So I dont like this verse, reason is why cant we as christians pray for our own healing, why depend on others, why depend on the elders. Depending on others, people can abuse if u know what I mean, some elders think, I have the power, u not or something like this.

James 5:14-16 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

God is able to guide us to the leaders whom He trusts.

And He includes us to minister to each other how He blesses us and matures us in Jesus, so we are sharing as family in prayer and His word and all else of His good.

No one is to isolate by one's own self; or how can you discover real loving while you do not trust anyone?

I mean how God is able to guide you about who to trust. Trust is not blind, but guided reliably by God.