Missionary

[Tellyontellyon]

The missionary position got its name because it was the only sexual position that missionaries thought was ok..

But is there actually any actual Christian teachings on this, whether from scripture or church tradition?

Are there any sexual positions that Christians should not engage with?

 

[jacks]

As long as you're married (and it's consensual), anything goes.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The missionary position got its name because it was the only sexual position that missionaries thought was ok..

Which missionaries? What brand of missionaries? What's the history of this teaching?

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Serving from memory I believe Christian missionaries were especially advocating 'missionary' position in Africa because they thought proper Bible-compatible intimacy required the partners at least facing one another - instead of 'animalistic' positions in which verbal/facial communication would be much harder.

I'm not into the position advocacy business but regardless indeed heart-to-heart communication would be core to Biblical sex, as it is supposed to be confirming/celebrating the husband/wife relationship on an emotional/spiritual level.

By the way - the view of the Early Church and with that several Church Fathers on sexuality was deeply disturbing; one wonders in what ways Christian culture still carries the burden of that.

I guess ChatGPT is your friend on this issue.

@Tellyontellyon: you usually come with interesting original questions Your profile states you're Buddhist, but you delve into Christianity to explore or otherwise?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Serving from memory I believe Christian missionaries were especially advocating 'missionary' position in Africa because they thought proper Bible-compatible intimacy required the partners at least facing one another - instead of 'animalistic' positions in which verbal/facial communication would be much harder.

I'm not into the position advocacy business but regardless indeed heart-to-heart communication would be core to Biblical sex, as it is supposed to be confirming/celebrating the husband/wife relationship on an emotional/spiritual level.

By the way - the view of the Early Church and with that several Church Fathers on sexuality was deeply disturbing; one wonders in what ways Christian culture still carries the burden of that.

I guess ChatGPT is your friend on this issue.

@Tellyontellyon: you usually come with interesting original questions Your profile states you're Buddhist, but you delve into Christianity to explore or otherwise?

I'm interested in all religions, I am open minded about Christianity... as I like the idea of a God to pray to (in Buddhism you have to do all the work yourself!)
However, I usually tell people on here that I'd never convert (mainly to keep the aggressive preaching at bay)..
I might convert, you never know!
It's something that would happen naturally, not through people offering me the gospel for the hundredth time, lol.

Your point about intimacy is interesting. Christianity seems to reject sex that isn't loving and committed (sex for kicks)

What were the disturbing ideas in the early church?

 

[Peacemaker1]

The world is ending ( all are unaware as He comes as a thief in the night) and your idea of holy conversation at Christmas time shows lots of godliness I'm sure...



1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

 

[Peacemaker1]

The liar denies that Jesus is the Christ, denying God, deceivers, who do not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

 

[Peacemaker1]

If your forum wants to explore Christianity, explore it as God says, not adding deception to the warnings we have from God.

 

[d taylor]

I'm interested in all religions, I am open minded about Christianity... as I like the idea of a God to pray to (in Buddhism you have to do all the work yourself!)
However, I usually tell people on here that I'd never convert (mainly to keep the aggressive preaching at bay)..
I might convert, you never know!
It's something that would happen naturally, not through people offering me the gospel for the hundredth time, lol.

Your point about intimacy is interesting. Christianity seems to reject sex that isn't loving and committed (sex for kicks)

What were the disturbing ideas in the early church?

Well there is no converting to it. It is simply believing* in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Converting to a certain denomination and their beliefs gives no one God's free gift of Eternal Life.

*The believing in Jesus is to believe He Jesus is the ressurection and the life, The promised Messiah/Christ Son of God. Son of God and Messiah are interchangeable terms meaning the same thing, God incarnate

 

[Peacemaker1]

Well there is no converting to it. It is simply believing* in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Converting to a certain denomination and their beliefs gives no one God's free gift of Eternal Life.

*The believing in Jesus is to believe He Jesus is the ressurection and the life, The promised Messiah/Christ Son of God. Son of God and Messiah are interchangeable terms meaning the same thing, God incarnate

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

[d taylor]

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I was addressing receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life and becoming a born again child of God. Which your verses do not address, so why post them.

If you will look at the whole context of the verse you posted and singled out to support your theology. It is seen the disciples are asking about greatness in the Kingdom and not receiving Eternal Life.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

 

[Peacemaker1]

I was addressing receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life and becoming a born again child of God. Which your verses do not address, so why post them.

If you will look at the whole context of the verse you posted and singled out to support your theology. It is seen the disciples are asking about greatness in the Kingdom and not receiving Eternal Life.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

Acts 15:3
And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

 

[Peacemaker1]

there is a lot of converting, mostly to be the least, the lowest and the last.


Matthew 13:32
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Luke 9:48
And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Luke 14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

 

[Peacemaker1]

why does this guy try to cover up that there is a converting going on, when he cant cover up any single thing, when we can know the teachers of this forum try to create something, and instead of being out as Christ to walk as He walked, they talk subtilty instead as someone we know did.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

I'm interested in all religions, I am open minded about Christianity... as I like the idea of a God to pray to (in Buddhism you have to do all the work yourself!)
However, I usually tell people on here that I'd never convert (mainly to keep the aggressive preaching at bay)..
I might convert, you never know!
It's something that would happen naturally, not through people offering me the gospel for the hundredth time, lol.

Your point about intimacy is interesting. Christianity seems to reject sex that isn't loving and committed (sex for kicks)

What were the disturbing ideas in the early church?

Great to hear, welcome ... the God of the Bible is the God of love, grace, mercy, righteousness, light, life ... it's amazing to discover that. Once you realise who He is you simply can't let go - and life doesn't have meaning anymore apart from Him. No one can force that upon you, God Himself may reveal that reality to you, and/or you may be struck by the testimony of others that displays the reality of God's actions in this day and age. Reading the Bible is a good start if you have a desire to find that God and the One whom He has sent (Jesus) and ask Him ...

The Bible is very positive about sex (see the book 'Song of Songs'), but only in the intended context of a life-long covenant where there is trust, safety (no fear of abandonment, consequences (pregnancy, hygiene) are OK), commitment, etc. Sex as the apex of knowing the other. The Hebrew word for 'intercourse' in the Bible is 'to know' ('yada') (intimately).

The Early Church was partially influenced by Greek thinking and quickly inclined to asceticism where anything related to the body is somehow bad. In Christian thinking during those centuries sex became an inherently evil thing that was barely tolerated for the sole purpose of procreation. E.g. if a married man would become Bishop his wife was expected to be sent to a monastery to live as a nun from then on.

Mary, the mother of Jesus, 'had' to remain an eternal virgin because obviously even married sex would have tainted her.

Some eyebrow raising quotes from well-known significant Church Fathers on sexuality and women/wives:

• "We Christians marry only to produce children." - Justin Martyr (c. 100–165 CE)
• "Do you imagine that we approve of any sexual intercourse except for the procreation of children? He who is too ardent a lover of his own wife is an adulterer." - St Jerome (c. 320-420 CE)
• "Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil's gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert even the Son of God had to die." - St. Tertullian (150-230 CE)
• "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman. I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children." - St Augustine (c. 430 CE)

These views echoed widely in the Early Christian Church deviate substantially from the Hebrew attitude towards marriage, sexuality and women as one can find in the TNK and even Paul's writings.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Great to hear, welcome ... the God of the Bible is the God of love, grace, mercy, righteousness, light, life ... it's amazing to discover that. Once you realise who He is you simply can't let go - and life doesn't have meaning anymore apart from Him. No one can force that upon you, God Himself may reveal that reality to you, and/or you may be struck by the testimony of others that displays the reality of God's actions in this day and age. Reading the Bible is a good start if you have a desire to find that God and the One whom He has sent (Jesus) and ask Him ...

if you say God may or may not reveal to someone, what have you got to say, or do you think you are revealing ALSO.



Matthew 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

 

[d taylor]

Acts 15:3
And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

-
​

If it is converting that makes a person a born again child of God. Then post a verse stating to receive Eternal Life and become a born again child of God, a person converts to Christianity.

 

[Peacemaker1]

-
​

If it is converting that makes a person a born again child of God. Then post a verse stating to receive Eternal Life and become a born again child of God, a person converts to Christianity.

2 Timothy 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[Peacemaker1]

convert it the way in, it is not told, to n ot be the way.


Psalm 51:13
Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Isaiah 1:27
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Isaiah 60:5
Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Luke 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

if you say God may or may not reveal to someone, what have you got to say, or do you think you are revealing ALSO.

I don't fully get what you are trying to say or ask me.

My replies are an honest reaction to the OP's questions; I did just that; in addition inviting a seeker to seek and receive God's truth as the Bible reveals that to us - and also sharing that the Early Christian Church historically had a very troubled view on sexuality.

Are you addressing something in particular in my replies in this thread?

I don't reveal, I'm not a Prophet - just a believer in Yeshua who is forgiven and honestly and diligently tries to understand God's truth as found in the Bible.