LDS LDS: Patriarchial Blessings.. the Claims

[drstevej]

https://www.lds.org/topics/patriarchal-blessings?lang=eng

Every worthy, baptized member is entitled to and should receive a patriarchal blessing, which provides inspired direction from the Lord. Patriarchal blessings include a declaration of a person’s lineage in the house of Israel and contain personal counsel from the Lord. As a person studies his or her patriarchal blessing and follows the counsel it contains, it will provide guidance, comfort, and protection.

A patriarchal blessing includes a declaration of lineage, stating that the person is of the house of Israel—a descendant of Abraham, belonging to a specific tribe of Jacob. Many Latter-day Saints are of the tribe of Ephraim, the tribe given the primary responsibility to lead the latter-day work of the Lord.

Because each of us has many bloodlines running in us, two members of the same family may be declared as being of different tribes in Israel.

It does not matter if a person's lineage in the house of Israel is through bloodlines or by adoption.
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Has there been any demonstration that this declaration of lineage is validated by DNA or geneological research? Or is the "adoption" provision a means of making this connection above challenge?

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https://www.lds.org/topics/patriarchal-blessings?lang=eng

Similarly, the recipient of the blessing should not assume that everything mentioned in it will be fulfilled in this life. A patriarchal blessing is eternal, and its promises may extend into the eternities. If one is worthy, all promises will be fulfilled in the Lord’s due time. Those promises and blessings that are not realized in this life will be fulfilled in the next. Similarly, the recipient of the blessing should not assume that everything mentioned in it will be fulfilled in this life. A patriarchal blessing is eternal, and its promises may extend into the eternities. If one is worthy, all promises will be fulfilled in the Lord’s due time. Those promises and blessings that are not realized in this life will be fulfilled in the next.
​

The "fulfillment in this life or the next" statement also makes challenge of the legitimacy of this "personal revelation" impossible. Add to this the secrecy requirement and this resembles my fraternity's rituals which certainly were not Divine in origin.

This is not Restored Christianity.

 

[drstevej]

"He loves you for the faith you have shown in the life before, and on earth..."

How is this Restored Christianity?

 

[Ironhold]

Has there been any demonstration that this declaration of lineage is validated by DNA or geneological research? Or is the "adoption" provision a means of making this connection above challenge?

It's the latter.

"Lineage", in this sense, refers to the tribe whose blessings a person is entitled to share in.

The "fulfillment in this life or the next" statement also makes challenge of the legitimacy of this "personal revelation" impossible.

In what fashion does the prospect of things taking place in the next life challenge mainline Christian notions?

 

[Ironhold]

"He loves you for the faith you have shown in the life before, and on earth..."

How is this Restored Christianity?

The LDS faith holds that Satan's being cast from Heaven was a result of the "War in Heaven" we see in Revelation.

In this sense, "faith in the life before" could easily refer to what the person did in this conflict.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Jacob was a patriarch and gave blessings to his children, see Gen 49

In the New Testament we read this;

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers”

There really isn’t any explanation in the New Testament as to what the differences is between all of these different callings. There are only two evangelist mentioned in the scriptures;

Act 21:8 “And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Cæsarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist…”

Paul to Timothy
2Tim 4:5“But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.”

Joseph Smith said an evangelist is a patriarch. He ordained his father Joseph Smith Sr. Patriarch of the Church and he gave blessings to many people. After he died his brother Hyrum was ordained Patriarch. There is a list of them, not always related to the Smith family. Eldred G. Smith was the last official presiding “Patriarch to the Church” he was the great great grandson of Joseph’s brother Hyrum. He lived to be 106, but he was given emeritus status way back in 1979. Many other men were ordained as Patriarch also including my husband’s great great grandfather Levi Jackman. Today each
Stake has a Patriarch to give blessings.

 

[Jutta2]

When I read the patriarchal blessing, I had to laugh, because I remembered my own blessing. None of this was fulfilled, which also did not recognize the dangers patriarch of my life. for me is the blessing, as lieles other in the LDS, that what we call in Germany "Verarsche". The word refers to a conscious swindle; to lie and cheat people.
BTW, One of the Patriarchs of the church was gay and married. He died in Hawaii.

 

[fatboys]

When I read the patriarchal blessing, I had to laugh, because I remembered my own blessing. None of this was fulfilled, which also did not recognize the dangers patriarch of my life. for me is the blessing, as lieles other in the LDS, that what we call in Germany "Verarsche". The word refers to a conscious swindle; to lie and cheat people.
BTW, One of the Patriarchs of the church was gay and married. He died in Hawaii.

All blessings depend upon our obedience to the gospel.

 

[withwonderingawe]

All blessings depend upon our obedience to the gospel.

So true!

 

[Jutta2]

All blessings depend upon our obedience to the gospel.

So true!

I want to tell you a story. A true story that relates to my uncle, who is now my aunt (she is transsexual). When my aunt was my uncle, he received from the Patriarch, a patriarchal blessing. It said among other things that God had known his soul in pre-existence (didn't God knows from his transsexuality?), and he was destined to be a leader, a husband and a father.
My uncle could never have children because he had an illness as a child, which made him infertile. During the active church life, he never got a greater appeal than that of a librarian. He was never Bishop, High Priest or stake president. Not even elders quorum president, he was. And, although he tried very young age, he had married only in old age.
Which of the promises in his blessing, although he was strongly believe and obey, fulfilled? None of them. Ergo: A patriarchal blessing is a fraud to tie people to the church.

 

[fatboys]

I want to tell you a story. A true story that relates to my uncle, who is now my aunt (she is transsexual). When my aunt was my uncle, he received from the Patriarch, a patriarchal blessing. It said among other things that God had known his soul in pre-existence (didn't God knows from his transsexuality?), and he was destined to be a leader, a husband and a father.
My uncle could never have children because he had an illness as a child, which made him infertile. During the active church life, he never got a greater appeal than that of a librarian. He was never Bishop, High Priest or stake president. Not even elders quorum president, he was. And, although he tried very young age, he had married only in old age.
Which of the promises in his blessing, although he was strongly believe and obey, fulfilled? None of them. Ergo: A patriarchal blessing is a fraud to tie people to the church.

Each one of us are given challenges in life. For those that are same sex or transgender are given a challenge in their life. Only if they are obedient to the gospel can those blessings be fulfilled. Someone who has same sex or transgender feelings have no greater challenge than someone who has opposite sex feelings. They have to be controlled. Although same sex or transgender people is not the norm it really doesn't matter. A person who is married and has feelings for other women has to control his feelings towards other women as those of same sex or transgender. Can a same sex person live a happy life loving a oppose sex person? Yes they can and many have. The same is true for transgender. If they live the gospel God will give them strength to control thoughts appetites and passions. You have quite w chip on your shoulder towards the LDS church. The patriarchal blessing is not a fraud. Had your uncle/aunt been able to control his feelings he would have fulfilled all the blessings given to him. Suppose he had been put into positions of leadership. The more responsibility one has the greater the judgement would have been. Sounds like God knows what he is doing.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I want to tell you a story. A true story that relates to my uncle, who is now my aunt (she is transsexual). When my aunt was my uncle, he received from the Patriarch, a patriarchal blessing. It said among other things that God had known his soul in pre-existence (didn't God knows from his transsexuality?), and he was destined to be a leader, a husband and a father.
My uncle could never have children because he had an illness as a child, which made him infertile. During the active church life, he never got a greater appeal than that of a librarian. He was never Bishop, High Priest or stake president. Not even elders quorum president, he was. And, although he tried very young age, he had married only in old age.
Which of the promises in his blessing, although he was strongly believe and obey, fulfilled? None of them. Ergo: A patriarchal blessing is a fraud to tie people to the church.

You are coming from the position that your uncle was born that way, I for one do not accept that notion.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. (The Family, A Proclamation to the World)

Your uncle is your uncle and will always be your uncle. Why he has lost his identity is more complicated than anyone of us knows and that’s why we should not judge him. I commend him for not faking it by getting married and forcing this all on a family as so many have done.

D&C 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

You don’t know how long he has been struggling with this. He may have discussed it with his Bishops a long time ago, hence the calling as a librarian, which as former librarian is one of the best callings. Ya get to know everyone in the ward, have the keys to the building but no real responsibilities.

My sister in-law struggled with getting a divorce, her blessing says something about going into the Celestial Kingdom with the father of her children but he stopped being worthy. In this case her blessing was predicated on his obedience and God does not force anyone into the Celestial Kingdom. What he does is bless you in other ways. There was another broken hearted soul out there and when they met they knew God had brought them together.

My husband’s blessing has an odd statement, it says if he was ever called to war and he went with the feeling that he did not want to kill anyone then he would not have to nor would he be killed. Well the Vietnam war came and went and he was never drafted so was it answered? I just don’t see my hubby ever being able to shoot anyone, it’s not in his nature. He feels that because he didn’t want to kill anyone the Lord made sure his number never came up.

It all depends on how one looks at it.

 

[Ironhold]

My uncle could never have children because he had an illness as a child, which made him infertile.

...And adoption was never considered?

In all seriousness, I've heard of numerous instances in which people who were infertile for one reason or another responded by adopting children. This includes one woman who was born infertile while her sister wasn't; she wound up having to adopt her sister's children when some bad stuff went down.

During the active church life, he never got a greater appeal than that of a librarian.

Did the blessing specifically say "leader in the church", or just a leader?

And, although he tried very young age, he had married only in old age.

I'm 31 (soon to be 32) with absolutely zero prospects on the horizon thanks in large part to my financial situation. (In particular, I'm now staring at the prospect of bankruptcy because my Obamacare policy is total garbage and left me on the hook for a massive payment after a medical issue.)

Doesn't mean that marriage won't happen; it just won't happen in the near future.

Ergo: A patriarchal blessing is a fraud to tie people to the church.

No, what we have here is a story in desperate need of additional details.

 

[Jutta2]

You are coming from the position that your uncle was born that way, I for one do not accept that notion.

That is not my position, but the position of science.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. (The Family, A Proclamation to the World)

That the Church believes, and I have also believed for many years. Until that happened with my uncle, and I was able to read her diaries. Opened to me not only a new world, it also showed me that the Church has erred. There is no shame in being wrong, because, "To err is human" (not to say that to err is male). But it's a shame to persevere in one's own errors, only the error not to admit!

Your uncle is your uncle and will always be your uncle. Why he has lost his identity is more complicated than anyone of us knows and that’s why we should not judge him. I commend him for not faking it by getting married and forcing this all on a family as so many have done.

My uncle is now my aunt. In my family I am the only person that she accepted as she is. My family shuns her. My former church denied her access to the church as a woman. As a "man" she would be welcome at any time. She has changed her gender legally. All documents, to her birth certificate, she point out as a woman. The LDS Church discriminated my aunt!

You don’t know how long he has been struggling with this. He may have discussed it with his Bishops a long time ago, hence the calling as a librarian, which as former librarian is one of the best callings. Ya get to know everyone in the ward, have the keys to the building but no real responsibilities.

She struggled for over thirty years against her feelings. No one in the church wanted to help her. Everyone wanted to, with pressure that they "normally" again is. For the purposes of the LDS Church works. That has made them physically and mentally ill. Two suicide attempts speak a very clear language.

 

[Hammster]

I see that these blessings are just like the promises of the Word of Faith crew. It all depends on your faith, and if you aren't blessed, it's because you didn't have enough.

 

[Jutta2]

I see that these blessings are just like the promises of the Word of Faith crew. It all depends on your faith, and if you aren't blessed, it's because you didn't have enough.

I think it is much more complicated than many people who are in sects believe. For the non-fulfillment of a prophecy to blame those for whom this prophecy was: the believer.
A prophecy is not fulfilled? Then the believer is to blame, but never the prophecy or the patriarch / prophet!
The idea that someone has not spoken as a prophet / Patriarch of God; but he spoke of itself, this idea come not members of sects / cults! Because that would mean to put his own faith into question.

 

[withwonderingawe]

That is not my position, but the position of science.



That the Church believes, and I have also believed for many years. Until that happened with my uncle, and I was able to read her diaries. Opened to me not only a new world, it also showed me that the Church has erred. There is no shame in being wrong, because, "To err is human" (not to say that to err is male). But it's a shame to persevere in one's own errors, only the error not to admit!



My uncle is now my aunt. In my family I am the only person that she accepted as she is. My family shuns her. My former church denied her access to the church as a woman. As a "man" she would be welcome at any time. She has changed her gender legally. All documents, to her birth certificate, she point out as a woman. The LDS Church discriminated my aunt!



She struggled for over thirty years against her feelings. No one in the church wanted to help her. Everyone wanted to, with pressure that they "normally" again is. For the purposes of the LDS Church works. That has made them physically and mentally ill. Two suicide attempts speak a very clear language.

*That is not my position, but the position of science.


No, there is no proof that this is in born, there is no gay gene! The X and Y Chromosome have been full taken apart and put back together again and there is no particle of it which can be called a gay gene.

No, Scientists Have Not Found the ‘Gay Gene’
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/no-scientists-have-not-found-the-gay-gene/410059/

 

[drstevej]

Off topic, again.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Off topic, again.

we're talking about Jutta's uncle's blessing, why is that off topic?

 

[drstevej]

okie dokie, the gay gene thing distracted me.

 

[Jutta2]

we're talking about Jutta's uncle's blessing, why is that off topic?

My aunt (formerly my uncle) is transsexual, not homosexual. That's a huge difference.