Is it Necessary to Keep the Law?

[oikonomia]

They were not even given to the Gentiles.
Now, Christians, Jews included if they embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior, have a truly righteous high priest.

[Heb 8:1-6 KJV] 1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

I would like to offer a song or two on A Great High Priest from the book of Hebrews.

 

[oikonomia]

No today, we walk in the Spirit and no longer under the old covenant.
We are under grace.

Amen. For freedom Christ has set us free.

 

[oikonomia]

So by not keeping the 4th commandment we are establishing the law?

Paul did not mean by "Rather, we establish the law" (Rom. 3:30) "Rather, we return to the law keeping of Judaism"
If we back up three verses to v. 28 he has just told us -
For we account that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

The establishing of the law there has to do with realizing that the law has proved the
absolute necessity for salvation in Christ from its condemnation.

 

[oikonomia]

Let's take a look at the NC.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Everyone, including myself, has been focusing on the legal aspect of the NC. I want to focus on the last verse. The NC was given so that everyone under the NC would know God. That is salvation.

It is good to also focus on that no need for teaching to know God because all in the new covenant will know Him.
This has to correspond to the Apostle John saying we ought to abide in the anointing which teaches us all things.

And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him. (1 John 2:27)

Notice the similarity.
Jeremiah - they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me,
Compare:
John - and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie,

The anointing is a kind of rubbing of an ointment into us. Think of Vick's Vapor Rub as an example.
The living Spirit of the Triune God rubs God's life and nature into our being.

No human teaching is so minute, granular, on a quantum level of intimacy. The moving around and
pressing of the Holy Spirit into our personality is the anointing that teaches.

Yet there is still the need to cooperate and "abide in Him" which is to abide in the anointing.
In fact this is the primary thing the anointing teaches - to abide in Him - remain in Him - linger and log more and more
of our moments in Him.

, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested, we may have boldness and not be put to shame from Him at His coming. (vs. 27,28)
Compare:
As for you, that which you heard from the beginning, let it abide in you. If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. (v.24)

Do we have a strong relationship with God? Do we know God intimately and talk to Him as our friend? If so Jesus will not say to us depart from me you who work iniquity.

That is the purpose of the NC. So can you say I know God very well? He is my friend. Only you know.

Many here know Him. We need all to know Him much more.
We need to abide in Him. We need to learn the anointing and abide in this more.

Like the Apostle Paul was very mature. Yet he only wanted to gain Christ. That means he was not self satisfied.
He wanted to encrease in Christ. He wanted Christ to spread into all of his living.

I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ (Phil.3:8)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Many here know Him. We need all to know Him much more.
We need to abide in Him. We need to learn the anointing and abide in this more.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

 

[Gary K]

It is good to also focus on that no need for teaching to know God because all in the new covenant will know Him.
This has to correspond to the Apostle John saying we ought to abide in the anointing which teaches us all things.

And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him. (1 John 2:27)

Notice the similarity.
Jeremiah - they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me,
Compare:
John - and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie,

The anointing is a kind of rubbing of an ointment into us. Think of Vick's Vapor Rub as an example.
The living Spirit of the Triune God rubs God's life and nature into our being.

No human teaching is so minute, granular, on a quantum level of intimacy. The moving around and
pressing of the Holy Spirit into our personality is the anointing that teaches.

Yet there is still the need to cooperate and "abide in Him" which is to abide in the anointing.
In fact this is the primary thing the anointing teaches - to abidee in Him - remain in Him - linger and log more and more
of our moment in Him.

, and you have no need that anyone teach you; but as His anointing teaches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, so that if He is manifested, we may have boldness and not be put to shame from Him at His coming. (vs. 27,28)
Compare:
As for you, that which you heard from the beginning, let it abide in you. If that which you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. (v.24)


Many here know Him. We need all to know Him much more.
We need to abide in Him. We need to learn the anointing and abide in this more.

Like the Apostle Paul was very mature. Yet he only wanted to gain Christ. That means he was not self satisfied.
He wanted to encrease in Christ. He wanted Christ to spread into all of his living.

I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ (Phil.3:8)

According to the NC what is it that causes us to know God? Writing His law in our hearts. Jesus had the law written in His heart and that's what enabled Him to keep the law of God. God promises to do the same for us. His promises are always true.

 

[oikonomia]

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

This is the same thing as what I said before.
That is we who are Christians know Him and need to know Him more.

The more we know Him the more our walk will be as He walked.
That is why in John's epistle there are levels of maturity corresponding to levels of knowing Him and walking like Him.

There are children, young men, and fathers.
They all know Him but they are at different levels of maturity in walk.

I write to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you because of His name.
I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. (1 John 2:12-13b)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is the same thing as what I said before.
That is we who are Christians know Him and need to know Him more.

The more we know Him the more our walk will be as He walked.
That is why in JOhn's epistles there are levels of maturity corresponding to levels of knowing Him and walking like Him.

There are children, young men, and fathers.
They all know Him but they are at different levels of maturity in walk.

I write to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you because of His name.
I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. (1 John 2:12-13b)

Yes, but where we seem to disagree is keeping the Ten Commandments. Jesus kept them all including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 Luke 13:10 Mark 3:1-6 Luke 4:31 Mark 6:2 and we are to walk just as He walked 1 John 2:6 as He is our example to follow. 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

Sin is breaking God's law Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4 we have a very merciful Savior who gave His life to pay the penalty for sin and once Jesus heals He says go and sin no more. John 8:11 as our salvation is from sin. Mat 1:21

If we are in Christ - we too need to bury our sins with Christ - Romans 6:2 How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. John 14:15-18

 

[Leaf473]

This passage came to my mind

Bible Gateway passage: John 5:45 - New American Standard Bible

Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have put your hope.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[fhansen]

Is it important to God that Christians keep the Law, as this is a question which many false ideas and beliefs have created confusion for many Christians. Now, if the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Paul hits on this in Romans 6..

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? And we see his answer, 'God forbid.' especially if we ' that are dead to sin'. And if we look we find many ways that Christians try to invent their own definitions which allow or condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments, the law which has been described as done away with or abolished or not applying to Christians. Is this true or are the moral precepts just as needed today as they were when God wrote them on the tables of stone. If you think about it, nothing has happened to make them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, scripture shows that Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual meaning and application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. From Christ's perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual essence of keeping the law which many wouldn't recognize, nor made possible apart from Him.

Even though the law points out sin, it has no power to save from sin. There is no justifying, cleansing grace in it. All the works of all the laws would not be sufficient to save a single soul, for the simple reason that we are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us the 'knowledge of sin' and our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ. And it also tells us...
James 1:23-25
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The Church has always taught that we must obey the moral law, the ten commandments specifically, but with the power of the Spirit, in union with God, not solely by my own efforts, apart from Him, which is what it means to be "under the law". We are now under grace, under the new covenant, where God 'puts His law in our minds and writes it on our hearts' (Jer 31). Now His people, we can and must act like it, cooperating in His work as we pick our our cross and follow Him daily.

 

[TPop]

How can we get it wrong when the Comforter was sent to lead us into all truth? Seems to me if we do we aren't listening to the Spirit.

So you don't believe Paul? There is nothing in that passage that indicates what you assert.

I don't know. Will some people get it wrong? Can you observe any day as the Sabbath? Or is the Sabbath for man? Where we rest in God's work. Most use the Sabbath to get saved or strengthen their beliefs. Is that Resting in the completed Works of Christ? Or is that works.

I believe Paul. Paul is one of and probably my biggest bible hero. I trust Paul because I trust God. And Paul received it directly, mind to mind, spirit to spirit from Jesus.

Consider reading some commentaries on the Fruit of the Spirt as Paul writes about it.

Peace and Blessings.

 

[TPop]

Let's take a look at the NC.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Everyone, including myself, has been focusing on the legal aspect of the NC. I want to focus on the last verse. The NC was given so that everyone under the NC would know God. That is salvation.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So it is life eternal to personally know God. If we do the following won't happen to us.

Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do we have a strong relationship with God? Do we know God intimately and talk to Him as our friend? If so Jesus will not say to us depart from me you who work iniquity.

That is the purpose of the NC. So can you say I know God very well? He is my friend. Only you know.

Jermiah is wonderful!

And Daniell portrays those who do not keep the law being taken into captivity.
And Hosea, even more dearly, portrays those endlessly failing to keep the law. Because no one can keep the law.

i. Throughout the Bible, God reveals His plan of redemption through a series of covenants. After the extended story of the fall and ruin of humanity in Genesis 1-11, the story of the covenants begins.

• The Abrahamic Covenant promised to Abraham and His covenant descendants a land, a nation, and a blessing to extend to all nations (Genesis 12:1-3).
• The Mosaic or Sinai Covenant gave Israel the law, the sacrifices, and the choice of blessing or curse (Exodus 19).
• The Davidic Covenant that promised an everlasting dynasty, a perfect ruler, and the Promised Messiah (2 Samuel 7).
• God’s plan of redemption through the covenants is completed and perfected in the New Covenant. Over the span of Old Testament passages that announce the new covenant (especially Ezekiel 11:16-20, 36:16-28, and 37:21-28), we see the promises of gathered Israel, of cleansing and spiritual transformation, and the reign of the Messiah.

ii. “The promise relates to a ‘new covenant’ and is a prediction of a radical change in God’s economy (i.e., his dealing with humanity).” (Feinberg)

iii. Jesus specifically instituted this new covenant by His death on the cross, and He specifically instituted the recognition and remembrance of it with the bread and cup of communion (Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20). It was future to Jeremiah’s day, but it was put into effect by Jesus and specifically by His work of atoning sacrifice at the cross.

iv. The writer to the Hebrews quotes this passage and develops the theme of the new covenant, especially in contrast to the old (Hebrews 8:8, 8:13, 9:15, and 12:14).

Fruit of the Spirit. What we now have. The indwelling of the HS that convicts us. Not the Law convicting us.

If one is under the law, one just like and no different from those in the whole book of Hosea. One cannot read Hosea, especially Hosea 8, and look at themselves as better or more law-abiding than the Israelites.

Not breaking the law is not the same as not being under the law.
There are some 600+ laws to be kept. Do you or I even know all of them? If not, then one is lost just like those in Hosea.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Gary K]

Jermiah is wonderful!

And Daniell portrays those who do not keep the law being taken into captivity.
And Hosea, even more dearly, portrays those endlessly failing to keep the law. Because no one can keep the law.

i. Throughout the Bible, God reveals His plan of redemption through a series of covenants. After the extended story of the fall and ruin of humanity in Genesis 1-11, the story of the covenants begins.

• The Abrahamic Covenant promised to Abraham and His covenant descendants a land, a nation, and a blessing to extend to all nations (Genesis 12:1-3).
• The Mosaic or Sinai Covenant gave Israel the law, the sacrifices, and the choice of blessing or curse (Exodus 19).
• The Davidic Covenant that promised an everlasting dynasty, a perfect ruler, and the Promised Messiah (2 Samuel 7).
• God’s plan of redemption through the covenants is completed and perfected in the New Covenant. Over the span of Old Testament passages that announce the new covenant (especially Ezekiel 11:16-20, 36:16-28, and 37:21-28), we see the promises of gathered Israel, of cleansing and spiritual transformation, and the reign of the Messiah.

ii. “The promise relates to a ‘new covenant’ and is a prediction of a radical change in God’s economy (i.e., his dealing with humanity).” (Feinberg)

iii. Jesus specifically instituted this new covenant by His death on the cross, and He specifically instituted the recognition and remembrance of it with the bread and cup of communion (Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20). It was future to Jeremiah’s day, but it was put into effect by Jesus and specifically by His work of atoning sacrifice at the cross.

iv. The writer to the Hebrews quotes this passage and develops the theme of the new covenant, especially in contrast to the old (Hebrews 8:8, 8:13, 9:15, and 12:14).

Fruit of the Spirit. What we now have. The indwelling of the HS that convicts us. Not the Law convicting us.

If one is under the law, one just like and no different from those in the whole book of Hosea. One cannot read Hosea, especially Hosea 8, and look at themselves as better or more law-abiding than the Israelites.

Not breaking the law is not the same as not being under the law.
There are some 600+ laws to be kept. Do you or I even know all of them? If not, then one is lost just like those in Hosea.

Peace and Blessings

So it's like I said nothing at all.

 

[fhansen]

According to the NC what is it that causes us to know God? Writing His law in our hearts. Jesus had the law written in His heart and that's what enabled Him to keep the law of God. God promises to do the same for us. His promises are always true.

We know God because Jesus reveals Him. When we see Jesus we see God. With grace and our acceptance of it that knowledge becomes the fodder by which we believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, come to love Him. And so to gain eternal life (John 17:3).

And the more we know God, the more we love Him; it cannot be helped. To know God is to love Him. This is what it means to become His people (Jer 31). And that love produces obedience by its nature. Basil of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop, put it this way:

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”

 

[Gary K]

We know God because Jesus reveals Him. When we see Jesus we see God. With grace and our acceptance of it that knowledge becomes the fodder by which we believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, come to love Him. And so to gain eternal life (John 17:3).

And the more we know God, the more we love Him; it cannot be helped. To know God is to love Him. This is what it means to become His people (Jer 31). And that love produces obedience by its nature. Basil of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop, put it this way:

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”

So even though the Bible tells us ex[licitly you won't believe it?. Jesus' life here on earth tells us exactly the same thing. He revealed the law of God perfectly as He never sinned. So Jesus lived out the new covenant perfectly.

John 14: 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

And the Psalms tell us God's law was within His heart.

Psalm 40: 7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

 

[fhansen]

So even though the Bible tells us ex[licitly you won't believe it?. Jesus' life here on earth tells us exactly the same thing. He revealed the law of God perfectly as He never sinned. So Jesus lived out the new covenant perfectly.

John 14: 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

And the Psalms tell us God's law was within His heart.

Psalm 40: 7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart

And??? Is that supposed to somehow contradict what I said?

 

[Gary K]

And??? Is that supposed to somehow contradict what I said?

Yes. It is because of the law of God written in our hearts that we can know God. It's His principles of character placed within that allow us to fully know who He is. It was because of the law God written in Jesus' heart that allows us to see the Father in Him.

 

[fhansen]

Yes. It is because of the law of God written in our hearts that we can know God. It's His principles of character placed within that allow us to fully know who He is. It was because of the law God written in Jesus' heart that allows us to see the Father in Him.

I haven't heard it put quite that way but in any case, when we see Jesus when we see the Father. This is actually because Jesus is God such that everything He said and did reflected and revealed God's image or face.

 

[Gary K]

I haven't heard it put quite that way but in any case, when we see Jesus when we see the Father. This is actually because Jesus is God such that everything He said and did reflected and revealed God's image or face.

We don't reflect the Father's face and neither did Jesus. We would be killed by the brightness of it. It's His character we are enabled to reflect.

 

[fhansen]

We don't reflect the Father's face and neither did Jesus. We would be killed by the brightness of it. It's His character we are enabled to reflect.

Jesus is God. And that's why Heb 1 can tell us:

"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."

And that's why Jesus' revelation is definitive. Our problem is that we can't...or don'...or won't, necessarily recognize that divinity when we're shown it. But those who did comprehend , to the best they could, were/are changed by that light.