How do abortion supporters respond to this? I don't think there is a way to.

[GodLovesCats]

I don't think it's much as having a low opinion of women, but having consideration for them and being merciful as possible when addressing abortion. Also in the grand scheme of abortion in practice and legality, as said by @ChristianForCats it would be the doctors mainly responsible. They would be the ones doing the abortions and if illegal the ones directly breaking the law. This seems to be the perspective the Pro-life movement is coming from when addressing abortion.

Unfortunately pro-lifers see it the wrong way, calling her the murderer. Thank you.

However, even if it is accurate to call the doctor a murderer when an abortion is only for convenience, I'm unwilling to use that word when there is a medical reason. Using the Second Amendment, if a shooting is done for self-defense and kills the instigator, the murder suspect is acquitted.

Regarding the nine months pregnancy as a reason for abortion is a matter of convenience. Which I don't believe has any justification when concerning life and death issues (except if it's your own life and only your life). If a man doesn't want the inconvenience of eighteen years of being stuck with a child he must provide, would he be justified to kill the child regardless if he or she is in or out of the womb? Same for the woman, if it's wrong for her to conveniently not be a parent of a born child by having him or her killed, why would it be justified for her to conveniently as the mother have the unborn child killed?

Nobody said the father should want to care for the child. The mother is responsible for deciding if she will take care of her child for at least 18 years. Unfortunately, it is not always possible for a father to live with the child or make him want to be responsible for any amount of time. What is the mother supposed to do if the father refuses to pay legal fees and visit his child? That problem is one reason abortions happen, so unmarried mothers need some kind of support system to make the right decisicons for their children.

I understand the need to be merciful considering the mother too. But it shouldn't be with disregard for the child who deserves consideration and mercy for his or her life. Pregnancy and abortion are both complicated, each more serious than the choice of convenience. This isn't like what's for supper, a long prepared home-cook meal or fast food delivery.

This is why I keep stressing mothers need more than just the usual, "Here is an adoption agency." She is, of course, only going to be interested if she can get the proper counseling to cope with it for 9 months.

 

[SPF]

Unfortunately pro-lifers see it the wrong way, calling her the murderer.

I have no problem saying the wealthy, mother of 3 who had an “oops” experience with her loving husband, who then goes and has an abortion because she doesn’t want to raise children all over again.... I have no problem saying she murdered her unborn child.

 

[Calminian]

I am a woman.

So?

 

[Calminian]

I have no problem saying the wealthy, mother of 3 who had an “oops” experience with her loving husband, who then goes and has an abortion because she doesn’t want to raise children all over again.... I have no problem saying she murdered her unborn child.

Amen. I'd go even further and say she's immoral, and perhaps even evil. The idea that women are imbeciles and can't discern murder from the removal of a parasite is insulting to all women.

 

[Calminian]

I don't think it's much as having a low opinion of women, but having consideration for them and being merciful as possible when addressing abortion. Also in the grand scheme of abortion in practice and legality, as said by @ChristianForCats it would be the doctors mainly responsible. They would be the ones doing the abortions and if illegal the ones directly breaking the law. This seems to be the perspective the Pro-life movement is coming from when addressing abortion.

I'm not disagreeing this is the predominant sentiment, I just disagree with it. Doctors cannot abort without the mother of the child consenting and making it happen. In reality, they are coconspirators and equally immoral. Somehow we've gotten away from reality on this, and fall all over ourselves to exonerate the mother by questioning the intelligence of all women. "We can't expect her to make an intelligent moral choices on her own. He's not been educated enough!" It's demeaning to women at best. If a woman had her 1 year old put down by a doctor we would never dream of exonerating her for these silly reasons. Even we Christians help the other side when we allow this imaginary line.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I have no problem saying the wealthy, mother of 3 who had an “oops” experience with her loving husband, who then goes and has an abortion because she doesn’t want to raise children all over again.... I have no problem saying she murdered her unborn child.

The problem with calling her a murderer is she was not the one who killed the baby. She can't kill it; only a doctor can.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I'm not disagreeing this is the predominant sentiment, I just disagree with it. Doctors cannot abort without the mother of the child consenting and making it happen. In reality, they are coconspirators and equally immoral. Somehow we've gotten away from reality on this, and fall all over ourselves to exonerate the mother by questioning the intelligence of all women. "We can't expect her to make an intelligent moral choices on her own. He's not been educated enough!" It's demeaning to women at best. If a woman had her 1 year old put down by a doctor we would never dream of exonerating her for these silly reasons. Even we Christians help the other side when we allow this imaginary line.

At no time did I ever say women are stupid or bad people because of their sex. Why would a woman say anything like that? I have proposed improving mandatory sex education because although I got enough, I know not all states are as good as Ohio at teaching and enforcing it. How many states begin teaching it in eighth grade? If Ohio is an exception there, other states need to catch up. Do any states only require it in public schools? If so, there is a problem with kids in private schools not learning sex education. This is for both boys and girls.

 

[SPF]

The problem with calling her a murderer is she was not hte one who killed the baby. She can't kill it; only a doctor can.

Don’t be ridiculous. She walked into an abortion clinic and asked the doctor to kill her baby.

If I decided my 2 year old was too much of a financial burden and hired someone to kill him, do you think I wouldn’t be considered a murderer?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Don’t be ridiculous. She walked into an abortion clinic and asked the doctor to kill her baby.

If I decided my 2 year old was too much of a financial burden and hired someone to kill him, do you think I wouldn’t be considered a murderer?

Asking someone to kill the baby is not killing the baby. Only the perosn who did it killed the baby. That is why Alabama criminalizes the doctor, not the mother.

 

[SPF]

Asking someone to kill the baby is not killing the baby. Only the perosn who did it killed the baby. That is why Alabama criminalizes the doctor, not the mother.

Sigh. If you hire someone, or ask someone to kill someone on your behalf, you’re just as guilty of murder.

Do you honestly think that when the woman from my scenario stands before God she can say, “ummm, I wasn’t the murderer, it was the doctor. I just asked him and willingly lied there and encouraged him to kill my baby. But technically I didn’t do the killing, so I’m innocent.” Give me a break.

Read the link. Educate yourself.

https://www.quora.com/If-someone-hi...rison-the-hitman-or-the-person-who-hired-them

 

[Hank77]

t disagreeing this is the predominant sentiment, I just disagree with it. Doctors cannot abort without the mother of the child consenting and making it happen. In reality, they are coconspirators and equally immoral.

I agree, they are co-conspirators. The reason they have gone hard on the doctors is so that doctors will be afraid to perform abortions when asked, 30 yrs. in prison is a real deterrent. If doctors refuse there won't be abortions, at least not safe abortions. There will be only the back alley kind, the kind the low life woman deserves.

 

[Calminian]

Asking someone to kill the baby is not killing the baby. Only the perosn who did it killed the baby. That is why Alabama criminalizes the doctor, not the mother.

She's hiring the killer, and bringing to the baby to the killer.

 

[Calminian]

At no time did I ever say women are stupid or bad people because of their sex. Why would a woman say anything like that? ...

This is very sexist. You're an individual with a low opinion of women. You do not represent women in any way, you're just someone that thinks women, in general, are idiots and can't make a moral decision on their own, and therefore, can't be held accountable.

Why an individual would think this, I don't know. You believe a lot of strange things. But you have a very low opinion of women.

 

[GodLovesCats]

She's hiring the killer, and bringing the baby to the killer.

Is she thinking about killing the baby out of anger and wickedness in her heart? Is she thinking of it as, "I have to get rid of this baby" or sad that there seem to be no better solutions? The heart matters.

 

[SPF]

Is she thinking about killing the baby out of anger and wickedness in her heart? Is she thinking of it as, "I have to get rid of this baby" or sad that there seem to be no better solutions? The heart matters.

So if I lost my job and was really sad and didn’t think I could support my 2 year old anymore, and so I sadly asked my neighbor to kill him - that would make it more palatable to you?

 

[GodLovesCats]

This is very sexist. You're an individual with a low opinion of women. You do not represent women in any way, you're just someone that thinks women, in general, are idiots and can't make a moral decision on their own, and therefore, can't be held accountable.

Why an individual would think this, I don't know. You believe a lot of strange things. But you have a very low opinion of women.

Explain to me how anything I said even implies I have a low opinion of women. I actually would have a higher opinion of women than men if I preferred one sex.

 

[GodLovesCats]

So if I lost my job and was really sad and didn’t think I could support my 2 year old anymore, and so I sadly asked my neighbor to kill him - that would make it more palatable to you?

No, I am talking about unmarried women who are raped and already were unemployed.

 

[SPF]

No, I am talking about unmarried women who are raped and already were unemployed.

Well you’ve indicated in the past that you believe a new human being comes into existence at fertilization. Therefore, any abortion for a non-medical life threatening emergency is immoral and wrong.

 

[Calminian]

Explain to me how anything I said even implies I have a low opinion of women. I actually would have a higher opinion of women than men if I preferred one sex.

I think it's fairly obvious. I've made the case over and over. What parts are confused about?

 

[Calminian]

No, I am talking about unmarried women who are raped and already were unemployed.

So you support making abortion illegal if it makes an exception for rape?