Gay theology (i.e. Mel White, Soulforce) why even try?

[Polycarp_fan]

How does consentual adult homosexuality harm anyone?

Are you asking me, the Apostles or a medical doctor?

For me, as a Christian, sin is a very harmful endeavor. I learned that from the Apostles. My doctor will only tell me where everything goes in its proper functions. He won't advise deviant acts. It's an ethical and malpractice thing I'm betting.

He wouldn't even answer me when I asked if I could eat a hotdog through my eye socket. He did phone another kind of doctor though, but I left his office before I was restrained.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I'm not holding my breath for an answer to this one. Particularly since he introduced the idea of 'harm' by mashing together a (mangled) version of the Thelemic phrase with part of the Wiccan Rede, indicating he doesn't even know his source texts.

Polycarp_fan, if you really don't care what pagans do or think, don't try to use their maxims.

I have some regard for Wiccans. I wish those anti-Christian GLBT's (redundant I know) were Wiccans. Since Christians are not harming them for holding to the view that homosexuality and other sexual deviance is not compatible with Christian truth, they can go "do what thou wilt" somewhere far away from Christians, as long as it is OUT of the public school format. Unfortunately, GLBT's feel the urge to parade their sexual tastes down main street.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Polycarp_fan, if you really don't care what pagans do or think, don't try to use their maxims.

Yet, it is OK for GLBT's that literally hate Christians to use Christianity to recruit people into promoting their sexual orientation, social and political goals?

That hypocrisy knows no bounds.

You offer up the perfect example of the convoluted world of the common anti-Christian.

 

[Archer93]

Yet, it is OK for GLBT's that literally hate Christians to use Christianity to recruit people into promoting their sexual orientation, social and political goals?

Example, please?

Christian GLBTs and their supporters will often use modern scholarship to demonstrate that the passages often used as proof that same-sex relationships, etc, are unbiblical are wrongly translated and interpreted, but that's it as far as I'm aware.
Other than that, I've no idea what you mean.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Example, please?

Soulforce (dot org).

Christian GLBTs and their supporters will often use modern scholarship to demonstrate that the passages often used as proof that same-sex relationships, etc, are unbiblical are wrongly translated and interpreted, but that's it as far as I'm aware.

Modern "scholarship." You left out the quotation marks. Rather, what they do is alter scripture or at best twist scripture to homosexualize the text. take for example Ruth and Naomi. It is sickening almost to the point of the satanic, to posit these two women as lesbian lovers. Almost even worse is the pederast sex slave owner in the gay theological offering of the Roman Commander and his sick youth servant. GLBT's cement the opinion that they are after the kids if you take these theological stances just as the gay theologians offer them.

Other than that, I've no idea what you mean.

Hmm, you may be the only one. Every GLBT and their supporters know exactly what I mean. There are no scriptures promoting same-gender sex acts to be engaged in by believers.

 

[WhatThe]

I find it interesting that Polycarp_fan claims that wearing opposite gender clothes is a sin.... yet in Samoa, one of the most devoutly Christian countries i can think of, men frequently wear skirts.
They're also very accepting of transgendered people.

 

[Archer93]

Soulforce (dot org).

No, a group that actively HATES Christians who use scriptural references, please. Not one that is pro-Christianity but anti-clobber passages!
Either that, or show me where Soulforce actually hates Christians and Christianity. Not just opposing your viewpoint.

Modern "scholarship." You left out the quotation marks. Rather, what they do is alter scripture or at best twist scripture to homosexualize the text. take for example Ruth and Naomi. It is sickening almost to the point of the satanic, to posit these two women as lesbian lovers. Almost even worse is the pederast sex slave owner in the gay theological offering of the Roman Commander and his sick youth servant. GLBT's cement the opinion that they are after the kids if you take these theological stances just as the gay theologians offer them.

Ah- no, no quotation marks required. I was talking about the Leviticus, Romans and Corinthians passages there. Examining the linguistic and cultural background of those passages is indeed scholarship.

Ruth and Naomi; the word used to describe their interaction- Ruth clung to Naomi- is the same as is used for Adam and Eve and for when a man leaves his family to be with his wife. Seems pretty indicative of a romantic relationship to me.....
The centurian and his slave- Luke refers to the slave as a 'doulos', i.e. slave; specifically as a 'beloved slave'. The centurian uses the term 'pais', which could mean 'son' but given that the boy in question is already established to be a slave means in context a slave with whom the master has a sexual relationship. And given that a Roman official is asking a local rabbi for help for his pais, it rather suggests that there's a strong emotional element to the relationship.
Why is it assumed that the slave is a child, as opposed to a teenager? Or older?

Hmm, you may be the only one. Every GLBT and their supporters know exactly what I mean. There are no scriptures promoting same-gender sex acts to be engaged in by believers.

See above.

GLBTs do care what some Chrstians think, specifically the ones who try to introduce or repeal laws based on their own interpretation of the Bible. That's why we examine the original language and context.
But Pagans aren't trying to introduce laws based on the Charge of the Goddess or the Book of the Law. That's the difference.

 

[WhatThe]

No, a group that actively HATES Christians who use scriptural references, please. Not one that is pro-Christianity but anti-clobber passages!

Isn't it annoying how he (and others) think that 'gay' means 'hates all Christians and heterosexuals'?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

No, a group that actively HATES Christians who use scriptural references, please. Not one that is pro-Christianity but anti-clobber passages!

Leading people astray and teaching people to sin are far greater sins than sinning itself. Mel White is not only a heretic, he is a cult leader promoting sin. The witness of the New Testament writers speak a warning to Christians about these kinds of people.

Either that, or show me where Soulforce actually hates Christians and Christianity. Not just opposing your viewpoint.

Trying to bring Gay Culture into and onto the Church is pure hate. No different than Hindus or Muslims persecuting Christians in Hindu and Muslim countries. White and his Soulforce activists are pushing the gay agenda not the Gospel.

Ah- no, no quotation marks required. I was talking about the Leviticus, Romans and Corinthians passages there. Examining the linguistic and cultural background of those passages is indeed scholarship.

You are trying to warp scripture to approve of pagan practices of the people God warned the Israelites not to follow.

Ruth and Naomi; the word used to describe their interaction- Ruth clung to Naomi- is the same as is used for Adam and Eve and for when a man leaves his family to be with his wife. Seems pretty indicative of a romantic relationship to me.....

To a gay mind, love always has to include gay sex. It is dishonest to foster gay culture onto these incredible women. Ruth being a grandmother of Jesus, we see why the need to bring her into that world. Scholar does not mean an honest person.

And now we see the pederasty of gay culture in this shining example.

The centurian and his slave- Luke refers to the slave as a 'doulos', i.e. slave; specifically as a 'beloved slave'. The centurian uses the term 'pais', which could mean 'son' but given that the boy in question is already established to be a slave means in context a slave with whom the master has a sexual relationship. And given that a Roman official is asking a local rabbi for help for his pais, it rather suggests that there's a strong emotional element to the relationship.
Why is it assumed that the slave is a child, as opposed to a teenager? Or older?

And why is it denied that gay culture pushes pederasty? You just detailed it as something beautiful. If decent parents the world over do not justifiably "fear" the gay agenda, they are not looking out for their kids.

See above.

And see perversion called "scholarship."

GLBTs do care what some Chrstians think, specifically the ones who try to introduce or repeal laws based on their own interpretation of the Bible.

As opposed to homosexuals and their interpretation of the Bible? An interpretation that perverts and subverts the text to promote homosexuality. No where in the Bible is homosexuality proclaimed as something believers (Old or New) should engage in. And yet, your "scolars" try to make it so. This present darkness.

That's why we examine the original language and context.

For the gay agenda to reign over Christian orthodoxy. That is not a paranoid statement, it is just a fact.

But Pagans aren't trying to introduce laws based on the Charge of the Goddess or the Book of the Law. That's the difference.

Yes, actually they are. That's exactly what they are doing. Why not be honest?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Isn't it annoying how he (and others) think that 'gay' means 'hates all Christians and heterosexuals'?

Wanting to teach our children to embrace homosexuality because they have "questioning feelings" is pure hate. It is the definition of indoctrination and "orientation." Trying to force gay culture into the Church is pure hate. Far more malevolent than just hate. It's not enough for GLBT's to win the secular world to their side, they are hell-bent to spread their personal sexual proclivites into the Church. I notice with great fascination, that even "tolerance" is seen as hate to GLBT's. Schism is part of the gay agenda.

Satan is the father of all lies.

Jesus made that claim for a reason.

 

[David Brider]

To a gay mind, love always has to include gay sex.

Sorry, but that's utter tosh.

David.

 

[cantata]

Wanting to teach our children to embrace homosexuality because they have "questioning feelings" is pure hate. It is the definition of indoctrination and "orientation." Trying to force gay culture into the Church is pure hate. Far more malevolent than just hate. It's not enough for GLBT's to win the secular world to their side, they are hell-bent to spread their personal sexual proclivites into the Church. I notice with great fascination, that even "tolerance" is seen as hate to GLBT's. Schism is part of the gay agenda.

Why do you think they have these malevolent motives? What's in it for them?

 

[WhatThe]

Wanting to teach our children to embrace homosexuality because they have "questioning feelings" is pure hate. It is the definition of indoctrination and "orientation."

No one is making children 'embrace homosexuality'. If someone is gay, they are gay. If they have questioning feelings, then they should feel free to find answers to those feelings. Teaching children that to be gay is wrong and evil is pure hate. Teaching children to hate everyone who is different from them is pure hate. Making children live in fear because they're different is pure hate.

Trying to force gay culture into the Church is pure hate. Far more malevolent than just hate. It's not enough for GLBT's to win the secular world to their side, they are hell-bent to spread their personal sexual proclivites into the Church. I notice with great fascination, that even "tolerance" is seen as hate to GLBT's. Schism is part of the gay agenda.

Again, you have no basis for this. You fail to notice that NOT ALL Christians beleive that homosexuality is a sin. This has to do with how they have interpreted the scriptures, it is not due to anyone trying to 'force' gay culture onto them.

 

[Big Empty Circle]

'You're pure hate!'

'No, YOU'RE pure hate!'

Oh, you guys...

Just to be clear:

Hate: 1 a: intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury b: extreme dislike or antipathy : loathing

Therefore, teaching young people that their sexuality is okay whether straight or gay, and that questioning and exploring their feelings to better understand themselves and their desires, is not pure hate or even impure hate; it has nothing to do with hate. However, teaching them that it's wrong to be gay stems from your personal loathing of homosexuality (whether motivated by your chosen interpretation of religious doctrine or anything else) so it's much closer to approaching hate though I'd hesitate to speculate as to its purity as such.

 

[Archer93]

Duplicate

 

[Archer93]

Leading people astray and teaching people to sin are far greater sins than sinning itself. Mel White is not only a heretic, he is a cult leader promoting sin. The witness of the New Testament writers speak a warning to Christians about these kinds of people.

Begging the question. The whole point of analysing the relevant passages is to work out if it's a sin in the first place.
You say it is. Others, who are trained priests, pastors and other church officials say it isn't. Why are you right?

Trying to bring Gay Culture into and onto the Church is pure hate. No different than Hindus or Muslims persecuting Christians in Hindu and Muslim countries. White and his Soulforce activists are pushing the gay agenda not the Gospel.

The difference being that GLBTs are not persecuting Christians, instead are trying to stop Christians persecuting them.

You are trying to warp scripture to approve of pagan practices of the people God warned the Israelites not to follow.

Nope, I fully accept that scripture explicity disapproves of pagan practices.

To a gay mind, love always has to include gay sex. It is dishonest to foster gay culture onto these incredible women. Ruth being a grandmother of Jesus, we see why the need to bring her into that world. Scholar does not mean an honest person.

Hey, I wasn't the one who wrote that Ruth clung to Naomi in the same way Adam clung to Eve and a husband clings to his wife. Take it up with the writer!
Scholar doesn't mean liar either, BTW

And now we see the pederasty of gay culture in this shining example.

And why is it denied that gay culture pushes pederasty? You just detailed it as something beautiful. If decent parents the world over do not justifiably "fear" the gay agenda, they are not looking out for their kids.

Nope, I only detailed it as what the words meant. I'm no fan of sexual servitude, but that's the scenario presented in the gospel.
Although I'm even less keen on the keeping of sex slaves (refered to as 'delicas') who were, by definition, prepubescent.

Think about it for a moment- why would someone who is attracted to adult men be interested in children? It's one thing to be attracted to young men- quite another to be interested in pubescents and pre-pubescents. And apparently the vast majority of men who are, identify as straight.

And see perversion called "scholarship."

Anti-intellectualism, much?

As opposed to homosexuals and their interpretation of the Bible? An interpretation that perverts and subverts the text to promote homosexuality. No where in the Bible is homosexuality proclaimed as something believers (Old or New) should engage in. And yet, your "scolars" try to make it so. This present darkness.

So if something isn't explicity prescribed, it should be considered to be proscribed? What was the official view of interacting with non-believers? I thought Christians weren't meant to associate with them?
I could be wrong on this one of course. If you can provide me with chaper and verse that tells you to spend your time telling non-Christians what to do, I'll be happy to accept it.

For the gay agenda to reign over Christian orthodoxy. That is not a paranoid statement, it is just a fact.

One century's heterodoxy is the next's orthodoxy. Christian doctrine has always been quite mallable.

Yes, actually they are. That's exactly what they are doing. Why not be honest?

HOW?!?!?!?!
Give me one example of Wiccans or Thelemites trying to introduce laws based on the two texts I mentioned.
No-one is trying to introduce legislation that requires people to 'do what they will'. That's a personal maxim for each individual. Not a flippin' legal requirement or constraint.
Seriously, show me where what you say is happening is happening. Or at least demonstrate that you've actually read the texts in question....

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan

Wanting to teach our children to embrace homosexuality because they have "questioning feelings" is pure hate. It is the definition of indoctrination and "orientation." Trying to force gay culture into the Church is pure hate. Far more malevolent than just hate. It's not enough for GLBT's to win the secular world to their side, they are hell-bent to spread their personal sexual proclivites into the Church. I notice with great fascination, that even "tolerance" is seen as hate to GLBT's. Schism is part of the gay agenda.

Why do you think they have these malevolent motives? What's in it for them?

Satanic influence and encouragement.

From Peter:

Be self-controlled and alert.

Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

Gay theology does not resist evil. It literally promotes it and supports it.

By the way, why do you an "Atheist" (an anti-Christ individual as described in the NT) desire to support gays in their claim to be Christian? I find that somewhat odd.

Now, the following may seem insulting to you, but I would think not. To you God is just a silly myth or fable-like story. Now, I will add, that some savvy gay supporter, may pick up the ray of hope in the passage from John.

From John about atheism and gay theology:

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan

Leading people astray and teaching people to sin are far greater sins than sinning itself. Mel White is not only a heretic, he is a cult leader promoting sin. The witness of the New Testament writers speak a warning to Christians about these kinds of people.
​

Archer93

Begging the question. The whole point of analysing the relevant passages is to work out if it's a sin in the first place.
You say it is. Others, who are trained priests, pastors and other church officials say it isn't. Why are you right?

You ignored that gay theology leads people into sinning. These new gay/liberal scholars. They peddle humanism and not Christianity. There are far more scholars that hold to the teachings of the Apostles.

P-C

Trying to bring Gay Culture into and onto the Church is pure hate. No different than Hindus or Muslims persecuting Christians in Hindu and Muslim countries. White and his Soulforce activists are pushing the gay agenda not the Gospel.

Archer93

The difference being that GLBTs are not persecuting Christians, instead are trying to stop Christians persecuting them.

Opposing those warping scripture to promote homosexuality is far from persecuting GLBT's for desiring to promote homosexual sex in the Church.

P-C

You are trying to warp scripture to approve of pagan practices of the people God warned the Israelites not to follow.

Archer93

Nope, I fully accept that scripture explicity disapproves of pagan practices.

Homosexuality IS a pagan practice.

P-C

To a gay mind, love always has to include gay sex. It is dishonest to foster gay culture onto these incredible women. Ruth being a grandmother of Jesus, we see why the need to bring her into that world. Scholar does not mean an honest person.

​

Archer93

Hey, I wasn't the one who wrote that Ruth clung to Naomi in the same way Adam clung to Eve and a husband clings to his wife. Take it up with the writer!

Scholar doesn't mean liar either, BTW

It does when the promotion of gay sex is presented as "in the Bible." That anyone sees these two women as homosexuals is beyond just insult.

P-C

And now we see the pederasty of gay culture in this shining example.

And why is it denied that gay culture pushes pederasty? You just detailed it as something beautiful. If decent parents the world over do not justifiably "fear" the gay agenda, they are not looking out for their kids.

​

Archer93

Nope, I only detailed it as what the words meant. I'm no fan of sexual servitude, but that's the scenario presented in the gospel.

Both then were "cured" by Jesus. The sex slave owner and the molested sex slave. We see how Christians are to treat slaves. As brothers and sisters in Christ, not sex toys. The text says that the Roman had great faith.

Archer93

Although I'm even less keen on the keeping of sex slaves (refered to as 'delicas') who were, by definition, prepubescent.

Think about it for a moment- why would someone who is attracted to adult men be interested in children? It's one thing to be attracted to young men- quite another to be interested in pubescents and pre-pubescents. And apparently the vast majority of men who are, identify as straight.

I'm thinking that gay theology (and its scholars) are ceratinly supporting pederasty. And same-gender sex IS homosexuality. No matter what the rapist calls himself. Most criminals deny their crimes.

P-C

And see perversion called "scholarship."

​

Archer93

Anti-intellectualism, much?

Going to college and/or reading books and having an opinion does not make you a good person. The learned invent smart bombs and horrifying weaponry. They also invent lubes for making unnatrual sex more easy.

P-C

As opposed to homosexuals and their interpretation of the Bible? An interpretation that perverts and subverts the text to promote homosexuality. No where in the Bible is homosexuality proclaimed as something believers (Old or New) should engage in. And yet, your "scolars" try to make it so. This present darkness.

​

So if something isn't explicity prescribed, it should be considered to be proscribed?

No where in scripture is same-gender sex promoted. In many places it is condemned "for believers."

Archer93

What was the official view of interacting with non-believers? I thought Christians weren't meant to associate with them?
I could be wrong on this one of course. If you can provide me with chaper and verse that tells you to spend your time telling non-Christians what to do, I'll be happy to accept it.

You don't evangelize the believers. You evangelize non-believers.

P-C

For the gay agenda to reign over Christian orthodoxy. That is not a paranoid statement, it is just a fact.

​

Archer93

One century's heterodoxy is the next's orthodoxy. Christian doctrine has always been quite mallable.

Heresy is still heresy and many heresies were dismantled then as now. Gay theology does not exist in Christianity. It exists in pagan religious rites.

Yes, actually they are. That's exactly what they are doing. Why not be honest?

​

Archer93

HOW?!?!?!?!
Give me one example of Wiccans or Thelemites trying to introduce laws based on the two texts I mentioned.
No-one is trying to introduce legislation that requires people to 'do what they will'. That's a personal maxim for each individual. Not a flippin' legal requirement or constraint.
Seriously, show me where what you say is happening is happening. Or at least demonstrate that you've actually read the texts in question....

GLBT's literally are inventing laws for do as you will to be well, law. All the way down to kindergartners. MassResistance.org is only a hate group to those trying to teach children to "do as they will."

 

[cantata]

Satanic influence and encouragement.

Oh boy. Okay, dude. Looks like the end of the line for this discussion, then.

Gay theology does not resist evil. It literally promotes it and supports it.

By the way, why do you an "Atheist" (an anti-Christ individual as described in the NT) desire to support gays in their claim to be Christian? I find that somewhat odd.

I'm a non-theist, and I am not anti-Christian. I am doing a theology degree, so I happen to care what the Bible says and what Christians think. It is of academic interest to me.

Now, the following may seem insulting to you, but I would think not. To you God is just a silly myth or fable-like story. Now, I will add, that some savvy gay supporter, may pick up the ray of hope in the passage from John.

From John about atheism and gay theology:

D'aw, you think I'm the spirit of the Antichrist? I'm flattered!

 

[Archer93]

Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan

Leading people astray and teaching people to sin are far greater sins than sinning itself. Mel White is not only a heretic, he is a cult leader promoting sin. The witness of the New Testament writers speak a warning to Christians about these kinds of people.
​

Archer93

You ignored that gay theology leads people into sinning. These new gay/liberal scholars. They peddle humanism and not Christianity. There are far more scholars that hold to the teachings of the Apostles.

P-C

Archer93

Opposing those warping scripture to promote homosexuality is far from persecuting GLBT's for desiring to promote homosexual sex in the Church.

P-C

Archer93

Homosexuality IS a pagan practice.

P-C
​

Archer93

It does when the promotion of gay sex is presented as "in the Bible." That anyone sees these two women as homosexuals is beyond just insult.

P-C
​

Archer93

Both then were "cured" by Jesus. The sex slave owner and the molested sex slave. We see how Christians are to treat slaves. As brothers and sisters in Christ, not sex toys. The text says that the Roman had great faith.

Archer93

I'm thinking that gay theology (and its scholars) are ceratinly supporting pederasty. And same-gender sex IS homosexuality. No matter what the rapist calls himself. Most criminals deny their crimes.

P-C
​

Archer93

Going to college and/or reading books and having an opinion does not make you a good person. The learned invent smart bombs and horrifying weaponry. They also invent lubes for making unnatrual sex more easy.

P-C
​

No where in scripture is same-gender sex promoted. In many places it is condemned "for believers."

Archer93

You don't evangelize the believers. You evangelize non-believers.

P-C
​

Archer93

Heresy is still heresy and many heresies were dismantled then as now. Gay theology does not exist in Christianity. It exists in pagan religious rites.



Archer93

GLBT's literally are inventing laws for do as you will to be well, law. All the way down to kindergartners. MassResistance.org is only a hate group to those trying to teach children to "do as they will."

You just don't listen, do you?
And your obsession with child abuse is decidedly creepy.
Again, provide proof of laws being passed based on the Charge of the Goddess or The Book of the Law or it will be clear that you are just making it up. And that you KNOW that you are making it up.
Lying is a sin, remember?

Intelligent people have invented many things without which your life would be a lot less pleasant than it is, while stupid people have contributed little more to history than a dreadful warning as to what happens when they have a little power.
"We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day, we like who we like we hate who we hate but we're also easily swayed."

Your arguments from assertion are worthless. Your refusal to engage with people's arguments is pathetic, and your persistant refusal to use your brain is appalling.
You don't think. You have renounced any type of critical independent thought in favour of slavish obedience to other people's translations and interpretations, and you parrot those interpretations blindly without any real understanding.
You are a mental coward. You have deliberatly made yourself ignorant. You display a breathtaking lack of knowledge about the subjects you rail about. You make broad claims and sweeping generalisations that are actively libellous, and then declare that you are the persecuted one. Your hypocrasy is astounding.

If you think that any of that last paragraph is untrue, prove it. Provide one solid piece of data that backs up any of your statements.
I predict, however, that whatever you reply will merely demonstate the accuracy of my description of you.
I would love to be proved wrong though. I would love to see that, under all the judgementalism and bile, you do have a few working brain cells.
I'm just not holding my breath.