For those New to the Reformed Faith ...

BertMulder

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THE DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION
We believe that God has chosen in Christ out of the whole human race a people unto Himself (Eph. 1:4-6, 11; Rom. 8:29, 30). This election is grounded solely in God's good pleasure and not at all in man's works (II Tim. 1:9; Rom. 9:11). From God's purpose of election proceeds all the gifts of salvation, including faith itself (Acts 13:48; Eph. 2:8, 9). The Scriptures also teach very clearly the decree of reprobation whereby God appoints all others to everlasting damnation in the way of their own sin (Matt. 11:25-27; Rom. 9:11-13; II Thess. 2:11, 12; I Peter 2:8; II Peter 2:12). The assurance of election works humiliation before God and grateful adoration of His mercy.

For more information, please check out this website, reformedspokane dot org
 
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cygnusx1

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A Letter to a Hyper Calvinist

Hyper-Calvinism is an offense to God, and it is an offense to any serious Calvinist. Yes, yes, I know, there are disagreements over just what hyper-Calvinism involves. Some have attempted to paint me as a hyper simply because I hold to a strong view, a modified supralapsarian view, in fact. But you really don't have a lot of question about a real hyper-Calvinist when you meet one (and you won't meet them witnessing to Mormons or JW's or preaching on the duty of men to repent and calling men to Christ): the really hard-core, nasty, graceless ones will call you an unbeliever if you dare say "good morning" to an Arminian. I.e., they ask you a simple question: "Can an Arminian be saved? Are Arminians Christians?" If you say, "Yes, Arminians can be saved" they will tell you, "then you are not saved, either."
On a normally quiet e-mail list called TULIP a hyper showed up to start spitting at me when Chris Arnzen posted an announcement about the debate on Long Island with Bill Rutland. It is odd: many of my Reformed brethren have commented that, in personal conversation, in our online community, in other forums, I can be very patient in trying to help a non-Reformed believer come to understand the doctrines of grace. But I have zero patience with hypers. Call it a personal flaw (I have many of them), but I just can't stand hypers---they should know better. Part of it, of course, is the fact that I am constantly having to refute those who oppose Calvinism by painting me as a hyper, but part of it is just the incredible attitude of a real hyper. The Arminian, 99% of the time, is simply ignorant of the issues. The hyper isn't.
Here is the last response I sent to that list. Enjoy, or not, as you see fit.
Anyone who says that people who believe in universal atonement are saved is taking sides with Satan, calling God a liar and is not a Christian.​
Anyone who says that people who believe in duotheletism are saved is taking sides with Satan, calling God a liar and is not a Christian.
Without using Google or taking your eyes off your monitor, sir, do you know if you are condemned by that statement? Do you know what duotheletism is? It's important. It has to do with the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and His person, all vitally important things, just like the extent of the atonement. So, are you a duotheletist or a monotheletist? Do you know? If we make such important, yet complicated, aspects of the faith the standard by which we know if a person is a Christian, how many people are Christians today, sir? I just said on my webcast that you draw the circle in such a narrow fashion as to have to stand on one foot to stay inside it yourself. So how about it?
By now you have probably looked up the term, somehow, and discovered that orthodox Christians are, in fact, duotheletists, not monotheletists, and that the criterion statement offered above is false. But the point would be the same if I used monotheletism. You see, sir, 99% of all Christians I know, who show significantly more grace than you do in their behavior toward others, would not know the difference between monotheletism and duotheletism. But they are still Christians, because perfection of knowledge and belief is NOT the standard of salvation: Christ is the standard of salvation, and the error you hypers make that will haunt you as you answer for it before God is that you demand of Christ that as Shepherd He only have perfect sheep---He cannot sanctify them and cause them to grow in His grace and knowledge---that passage means nothing in your system. You are like the Pharisees of old who were confident of their standing before God because of what they knew and did. Read Matthew 23 sometime, and look into your own heart.
James>>>


http://www.aomin.org/index.php?itemid=208
 
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cygnusx1

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True Calvinism therefore is not opposed to evangelism and missionary activity for it recognizes that the elect must be saved through the gospel, and like Paul the Calvinist puts the question "how shall they hear without a preacher"? Again, if it is the duty of all men to repent and believe, then all men must be told of this responsibility. The fact that true Calvinism is not opposed to evangelism and missionary work is attested to by the great names of history who have gone to the ends of the earth to proclaim the gospel and who were Calvinistic in their theology. The names of John Eliot, David Brainerd, John Paton, William Carey and George Whitefield suffice to make the point.
Hyper-Calvinism is also characterised by the view that God's decree of election is viewed without reference to the Fall of man, that is, the Hyper-Calvinist believes that God created some men with the express purpose of damning them simply as creatures, not as sinful, fallen creatures.
Historic Calvinism, on the other hand, has always presented God's decree of election as a most gracious decree against the background of the Fall of man. Out of a race already on the way to hell because of its own sin. God graciously wills to choose a great multitude out of sheer mercy and grace. God does not damn men for nothing says Calvinism. He damns them because of their sin.
Another characteristic that has been seen in some (though not all) Hyper-Calvinists is "Antinomianism". The word means "against or opposed to the law". It represents the idea that the moral law is not binding on the Christian, and some have indeed claimed to be God's elect, and on the basis of his claim have then proceeded to live as they pleased, disregarding the Word of God and bringing great reproach on the cause of Truth.
Historic Calvinism, following the Bible as its guide, has also insisted that the fact of election is always revealed in holiness of life, and has strongly condemned the Antinomianism of some Hyper-Calvinists.
Other factors might be added, but enough has been said to show that Hyper-Calvinism is as distinct from Historic Calvinism as is Arminianism. They are both extreme positions, though of course opposite extremes; they are both departures from the Biblical position, and both suffer from the insistence of applying human logic where human logic has no right to be!


http://www.trinity-baptist-church.com/art_diff6.htm
 
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cygnusx1

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1. If all men have free will is the sinner as free as the saint?
2. If all sinners possess will and power to come to Christ, why did Christ say, “No man can come unto Me except the Father which hath sent Me draw him?” (John 6:44)
3. Has any man the power to refuse to come to Christ when the Father draws him?
4. Have those people free will that shall do wickedly and none of them shall understand? (Daniel 12:10)
5. Have those people free will of whom Peter says, they “were made to be taken and destroyed, and should utterly perish”? (2 Peter 2:12)
6. Have those people free will “who were before of old ordained to this condemnation”? (Jude 4)
7. Have those people free will of whom Jesus says, “the dead shall hear, and they that hear shall live”? (John 5:25)
8. Have those people free will of whom God says “I will be to them a God and they shall be to Me a people; and they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying know the Lord”? (Hebrews 8:10-11)
9. Could not a man with free will believe, notwithstanding Jesus said, “I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you”? (Acts 13:41)
10. Does not the doctrine of free will make man the cause of his own salvation?
11. Can man have free will and God be sovereign?
12. Is any one free that is a servant?
13. Are not all men the servants of sin until they are made free by the Son? (John 8:34-36)
14. Is the sinner free to will, free to choose, free to love, free to become a Christian, or, free to let it all alone?
15. If we are saved by our free will, is it not a fact that the only difference between the saved and the lost is that the saved made a better use of their will?
16. If God only wills to save those that are willing to be saved, is not God’s will dependent upon man’s will?
17. Does God work all things after the counsel of His own will, or does He work some things after the will of the sinner? (Ephesians 1:11)
18. Is the unchangeable God, changed by the will of the sinner? (Malachi 3:6)
19. Does salvation or damnation depend upon the use that a man makes of his will?
20. Does a sinner have the will to do God’s will prior to being born again? If so, is his will changed in the spiritual birth?
21. Does God begin the work of grace in the sinner independently, or is the sinner’s will first consulted?
22. Does Christ have to get the consent of the sinner before He can save him?
23. Does the sinner have to accept Christ in order to be saved, and reject Him to be lost? If so, is not Christ limited in the work of salvation to what the sinner sees fit to do?
24. Is belief a condition of salvation, or is it an evidence of salvation?
25. Do we have to believe in order to be saved or is the believer already in possession of eternal life?
26. Does Christ save sinners or do sinners save themselves? Is salvation a partnership work?
27. If sinners are saved other than by grace alone, please cite the chapter and verse which says so?
28. If God purposed to save all men and God changes not, will not all be saved? If not, why not?
29. If God works all things after the counsel of His own will, was it His will to save those that will not be saved? (Ephesians 1:11)
30. If Christ came to save sinners and did not do it, is not Christ a failure? (1 Timothy 1:15)
31. If Christ is a failure, upon what does the Christian’s hope depend?
32. If grace is favour bestowed upon an unworthy object, does not grace stop where worthiness begins?
33. When a sinner is quickened by the spirit, is he not in possession of eternal life?
34. Is there any intermediate space between life and death?
35. Do we have to act in order to live, or does life always precede action?
36. Did Christ come to seek and to save sinners, or to save those that seek Him? (Luke 19:10)
37. If sinners have to seek God in order to be saved, and none seek Him, will any be saved? (Romans 3:11)
38. Does not the saving of sinners come before the calling, and does not God do both? Are we either saved or called according to our works? (2 Timothy 1:9)
39. If God saves sinners according to His own purpose (2 Timothy 1:9), is not the plan of salvation as old as God’s purpose?
40. If Christ came to save sinners (1 Timothy 1:15), and finished the work (John 19:30), what is left for sinners to do in the work of salvation?
41. Were the different gifts given for the salvation of sinners, or for the edifying of the body of Christ? (Ephesians 4:11-12)
42. Could there be an effect without a cause?
43. Is the first cause of salvation the work of God, or the work of the sinner? (Philippians 1:6)
44. Do good works produce the Spirit, or does the Spirit produce good works?
45. If Christ only made salvation possible and the sinner makes it sure by his acts, which deserves the more praise?


http://www.go-newfocus.co.uk/pages.p...on=9&artID=172
 
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Unworthy1One

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Well I spent several days reading some of this and all I can say is... my head hurts.

Thanks to the board for making it a Sticky so I could find it.

Cygnus, thanks for posting all the great links. I have really enjoyed them, as well as your posts in other forums defending the Bible and what is says.

As the pastor of our local church said when I asked if he was a Calvinist... "I do not see how I can be anything but a Calvinist after reading this (as he waves his Bible)."

Grace and Peace

<<as I go back to lurking in the shadows>>
 
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cygnusx1

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Well I spent several days reading some of this and all I can say is... my head hurts.

Thanks to the board for making it a Sticky so I could find it.

Cygnus, thanks for posting all the great links. I have really enjoyed them, as well as your posts in other forums defending the Bible and what is says.

As the pastor of our local church said when I asked if he was a Calvinist... "I do not see how I can be anything but a Calvinist after reading this (as he waves his Bible)."

Grace and Peace

<<as I go back to lurking in the shadows>>


Bless you friend , glad to be of service. :wave:

Here is an interesting page ;



MAN’S FREE WILL
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whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" (Eph. 1:11). It is sometimes charged upon those who hold that God is sovereign in all that He does, that there must be recognized that man’s will is another side to this matter which balances out the truth. However, it is hard to imagine how that any statement could be more positive than this one in Ephesians 1:11 and if there is another side to the matter, it will not contradict this statement, for all Scripture is inspired of God, and is infallible therefore.
In no realm is the sovereign will of God denied as it is in the matter of man’s salvation. Only a hundred years or so ago, it was common to hear messages on the duty of submission to the will of God, but who ever hears a message on this theme in this age of willfulness. One often hears great orations upon man’s supposed free and supreme will, and most evangelists (?) cannot give an invitation without enlarging upon this theme, but the will of God is generally ignored.
Yet the above text is not the only one that sets forth the supremacy of the will of God; there are many others, and often they are even more specifically spoken of salvation than the above. Note the following: "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:10-13). "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth" (Rom. 9:16-18). "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jam. 1:18). Other texts equally strong and explicit could be added to these, but if anyone is not convinced by these, neither would he be convinced by added Scriptures.

There are several words in the Greek New Testament which are translated "will," and they have various shades of meaning. In Ephesians 1:11, the word rendered "counsel" (Grk. boul&#275;) in its verb form is often translated "will." It is joined with "will" (Grk. thel&#275;ma) which is a weaker form. The Greek word boul&#275; (and its related forms boul&#275;maand boulomai) is suggestive of "deliberate design" and is "the result of determination," as opposed to mere wish or desire. It is necessary that we distinguish between these two shades of meaning, else we may come to the impious conclusion that God is unable to accomplish His purposes without help from man. The old theologians distinguished between the revealed will of God, and His secret will; the revealed will of God, often expressed by the Greek word thelo or thel&#275;ma, reveals God’s desire, and so it tests our obedience; but the secret will of God, expressed by the Greek words boul&#275;, boul&#275;ma and boulomai, express God’s secret determined will which cannot and will not be thwarted. God’s will is often distinguished into either His efficacious or His permissive will. Dr. Green well distinguishes between these.
It ought, however, to be carefully noted here, that all who soundly hold this doctrine maintain that there is a difference always to be kept up between what have been denominated the efficacious decrees and the permissive decrees of God. His efficacious decrees relate to whatever is morally good; his permissive decrees to whatever is morally evil. In other words, his immediate agency, according to his decree, is concerned in whatever is morally good, —his immediate agency is never concerned in what is morally evil. Evil he permits to take place, and efficaciously, over rules it for good,-for the promotion of his glory. —Lectures On The Shorter Catechism, Vol. I, pp. 180-181. Presbyterian Board of Publication, Philadelphia.​
This age is not the first to resist the sovereign will and power of God, for Paul spoke of this in his day in Romans 9:18-21, nor are we concerned that anyone might overthrow the will of God; however, it is important that we be not found in rebellion against the Lord’s purposes: which shall surely be accomplished, and we shall be broken if we try to resist them. But it is one thing to know God’s will, and something else entirely different to do His will; this is where human responsibility enters in, and we certainly believe in this, but this is not the same thing as "free-will," although this is what many mean when they speak of "free-will." If a man is lost, it is his own doing, for John 5:40 says literally, "Ye do not will to come to me, that ye might have life." If anyone is saved, it is because God has first worked in him to cause him both to will and to do, and thereby to accomplish His sovereign purposes, which are to save a definite number—those whom He has given to Christ in the covenant of redemption, to be given life by Him (John 17:2,6,8-9) —and He shall save every one of these, but not one more than these (John 6:37,44).
It goes therefore without saying that the writer is not a "Free will" Baptist, but is a "Sovereign-Grace" Baptist, for he believes with Charles Spurgeon that "The whole scheme of salvation, we aver, from the first to the last, hinges and turns, and is dependent upon the absolute will of God, and not upon the will of the creature" (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 8, p. 183. Pilgrim Publications, Pasadena, Texas, 1971).
We often hear people sum up their theology about the extent of the atonement by saying "Well, I believe in ‘Whosoever Will.’" To which we say a hearty "A-MEN!" But this does not touch the real problem in the matter. There is no question but that "whosoever will believe" will be saved, for God’s promise guarantees it, but the questions are: "Is man able to will of himself?" "How can a man will to believe that he might be saved?" Only an outright atheist or agnostic would deny that whosoever will believe will be saved, for such a denial is a repudiation of the promises of God. Man’s problem never has been whether he will be saved if he believes on Christ, but his problem has always been that by nature he is unwilling to believe.
There are five Greek words and phrases which are translated "whosoever" and "whomsoever," but the one found in John 3:15,16 is the most common, and it is more commonly rendered "each one," "everyone" or "all," but always with a limitation either stated or clearly implied. If we will but consider what the Scripture has to say about the natural state of man’s will, we will find that man cannot "will" to be saved apart from the divinely inwrought grace of God, which changes man’s nature, regenerating him, and making him willing in the day that God’s power is exercised in him (Ps. 110:3; John 6:63; Eph. 2:4-10). Let the reader consult the following Scriptures, and he will see that not only is the natural man’s will in bondage to Satan, but that he is totally depraved, with nothing good in him, nor is he capable of either desiring to know or doing the will of God (2 Tim. 2:25-26; Rom. 3:9-12; 1 Cor. 2:14; Rom. 8:7-8). With these thoughts in mind, we would like to consider the subject of man’s will, and we will look at it from a three-fold position.
I. THE FALLACY OF FREE WILL.
It is generally accepted as a self-evident truth that man is possessed of "free will," and a person denies this at the risk of being termed a "hardshell," yet this term was never applied to any person originally because of his doctrinal beliefs, for when this term first came into use, both those who were called "hardshells" and those who were not, generally held to the same strict Calvinism which denies man to have "free-will." Hardshellism was historically anti-missionism and anti-effortism, and the fact that the Hardshells were Calvinists was incidental, for at that time all sound Baptists were Calvinists. It is therefore a slander of the worst sort to call a man a Hardshell simply because he is a Calvinist.
Man does not have "free-will," if by this is meant that man naturally, in and of himself, has the power to choose between good and evil. This is evident from the very fact that not a single person in all of the world’s history has ever been saved apart from divine grace. God has always had to initiate and complete salvation for man. Not only is man unable to be saved apart from divine grace, but even after he is saved, it takes divine grace to keep him in that state of salvation; but for the grace of God, every saved person would be lost again before he had been a believer for one whole day.
In saying that man does not have free will, we do not mean to say that man is not responsible for his sin; man is wholly responsible, for he is a sinner not only by nature, but also by choice. The fact that all men willingly choose to continue in sin shows that he is unwilling as well as unable to exercise any will toward good. By his fall in Eden, man became a sinner; he committed moral and spiritual suicide. It may be illustrated in this way; a man enters the elevator of the tallest building in town: he has the freedom of will to do this; he rides to the roof and there steps out of the elevator: he has the freedom of will to do this; next, he goes to the roof edge and jumps over: he also has the freedom of will to do this; but having done so, he has committed himself to a condition from which he does not have the freedom of will to extricate himself, but is doomed to destruction unless some force outside himself rescues him. So it was with man: by his rebellion in Eden, Adam committed moral and spiritual suicide for himself and for all his posterity; and only an outside force can rescue any one of Adam’s fallen race from destruction.

Neither do we mean by denying free will to deny free agency, for every man is a free agent, but he is free only within the sphere of his natural life, which is one of spiritual death, and so of spiritual incapability. He is a child of disobedience and wrath, under the complete control of the prince of this world (Eph. 2:1-3). Man’s free agency is limited only by man’s nature; he is free of any outward compulsion to sin. Satan may tempt him, but it is always the man himself that yields to that temptation and sins. He thus sins freely when he sins, for it is within his nature to do so. T. P. Simmons says of the free agency of the natural man:
Man cannot do otherwise than continue in sin so long as he is in his natural state (Jer. 17:9; Prov. 14:4; Jer. 13:23; John 6:65; Rom. 8:7,8; 1 Cor. 2:14). But his continuance in sin is not due to outside compulsion or restraint, but to his own character which causes him to choose darkness rather than light (John 3:19). He continues in sin for the same reason that a hog wallows in the mire. He continues in sin for the same reason that God continues in holiness. Thus he is fully a free agent. —Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine, p. 185. Associated Publishers, Daytona Beach, Florida, 1969.​
However, man is not able to freely repent and trust in Christ, because it is not within his nature to do so; he is able to do these things only by the grace of God. This is why we deny "free-will"; it has come to mean, to too many minds, that a man is freely able in and of himself to repent and turn to God in faith; this the Scriptures emphatically deny in many places. To hold to "free will" in the sense that many do, is to hold that a man is capable of acting contrary to his nature and ruling disposition of his soul, and this is not true. There is only one way to transcend nature, and that is by the grace of God, and then it is contrary to nature, and therefore nature has no claim to the accomplishment of it. In speaking of this matter, E. Y. Mullins well says:
Freedom in man does not imply exemption from the operation of influences, motives, heredity, environment. It means rather that man is not under compulsion. His actions are in the last resort determined from within. He is self-determined in what he does. Some hold that freedom in man means ability to transcend himself and act contrary to his character. The will is thus regarded not as an expression of what man is in his essential character. It is free in the sense of being capable of choices unrelated to past choices, acquired traits, and hereditary tendencies. This is an untenable view of freedom. It makes of the will a mere external attachment to man’s nature rather than an expression thereof. Freedom excludes compulsion from without. It also excludes mere caprice and arbitrariness. Freedom is self-determination. The acts of a free being are his own acts. —The Christian Religion In Its Doctrinal Expression, pp. 258-259. Judson Press, Philadelphia, 1932.​
This erroneous idea that man has a "free will" by which he can transcend himself and act contrary to his nature and to the ruling disposition of his soul, is the view of Arminianism, Socinianism, and the Modernistic theology of our day, and, unfortunately, it has crept into the theology of many Baptists of our day as well. There needs to be a return to the older, sounder Baptist theology, of the past.
Much emphasis is placed today upon the supposed fact of mans free will, and it is held by many that no one—not even God—can override man’s will. But the fallacy of this will be seen in a careful consideration of the following facts, which reveal that man’s will is not so free as he supposes.
1. Man’s will is not free in his birth, for no one chooses to be born, nor does anyone have the freedom to choose which home, nation, social status, or other circumstances into which he will be born. God sovereignly determines in advance without so much as a "by your leave," when, where and under what circumstances each one of us will be born.
2. Man’s will is not free as regards his health, for no one would ever choose to be sick, and if one had the choice of the disease that he had to take, if he had to have one, many diseases would soon perish off the earth, yet there are a great many different diseases to which man is subject, and many persons, in spite of the greatest health care, still contact diseases and suffer and die from them.
3. Man’s will is not free as regards accidents, for many accidents—sometimes even fatal accidents—happen to even the most careful people. Often these accidents are of such a freakish nature that they are explainable only by the will of God being the cause of them.
Man’s will is not free concerning the circumstances of life, for many people are thwarted in their ambitions and plans; we could understand how that God might thwart the plans of evil men like Adolf Hitler, but often God thwarts the plans of godly people when their plans are right and good, but he does so that His own purposes may come to pass.
5. Man’s will is not free concerning his intellectual ability, for all men would like to be intellectual giants, yet no man can go beyond the mental ability that God has given him in his birth. A natural limitation of the will of man is as much a limitation as any other, and is directly attributable to the God of nature.
6. Man’s will is not supreme in the acquisition of material possessions, for it is a very rare thing to find anyone who is poor by choice. It is easy enough to plan to be a pauper and to succeed, if anyone with such a peculiar desire should be found, but the world is full of would-be millionaires who are withheld from being rich because God has not granted them the power to get riches (Deut. 8:18; Luke 12:16-21). Often the most carefully planned business ventures become financial fiascos.
7. Man’s will is not free in his relations with his fellow creatures, for laws are often passed which restrain the individual’s will. Not only so, but it is well known that one man can often override and coerce another’s will; indeed, one who has some knowledge of psychology can manipulate people to get them to unconsciously do his will. Parents often do this with children, and sometimes children use psychology on their parents; and the wife’s ability to "twist her husband around her little finger" has almost passed into a proverb.
8. Man’s will as a natural being, apart from the grace of God, is not free, for the Scripture expressly declares that the natural man is taken captive by the devil "at his will" (2 Tim. 2:26), so that it is as absurd for man to boast of his free will, when the devil takes him captive any time he wants, as it was for the Jews to boast that they had never been in bondage to any man even while they had the yoke of Roman bondage upon them (John 8:33). But our Lord showed in verse 34 that the sinner, so far from having free will, is in an even greater bondage—the bondage of slavery to sin, for "servant" is literally "slave."
9. Man’s will is not free in the matter of salvation, for he cannot be saved any time he pleases, as John 1:13; James 1:18; John 6:44 et al, teach. Not only so, but if man’s will were as free as he likes to boast, then he could be saved, not only any time he pleased, but also under any circumstances, and even without any help from the Lord.
10. Man’s will is not even free as a Christian, for of all people, the believer’s will is always subject to God’s will. See Acts 16:6-10. Not only so, but according to Galatians 5:17, the fleshly nature still exerts such a force upon the believer that he often "cannot do the things that ye would." The evil nature of the flesh is a potent force, even preventing the renewed will from functioning as it desires to do.
11. Man’s will is not free concerning death, for few even are permitted to choose the hour of their death, and many would-be suicides are thwarted in their attempts to take their own lives, and they live on to rejoice that they were withheld from their own attempted self-destruction. "There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death" (Eccl. 8:8).

If there were no other proof of the fallacy of free will than the statement in 2 Timothy 2:25-26, it would be sufficient to forever sweep away the idea, for this text declares: "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." If we consider these verses in reverse order to which they are given, we will find the following things: (1) The natural man is taken captive at the devil’s will, and hence man is only as free as the devil chooses to allow him to be, and the devil certainly would never allow any person to will to be saved if he could prevent it. (2) The natural man is unconscious of this bondage to the devil, yet this unconsciousness is self-chosen, for the word "recover" (marginal reading "awake") means to awaken as from a drunken stupor. Thus, man acts freely in sin, though he is unconsciously in bondage to the devil. (3) The only hope of escape lies, not in man willing to free himself from the devil’s power, but in God’s giving him repentance, and this He does, using the Word as the instrument of instruction and conversion. God is always the active party in man’s salvation, and there are many texts which declare that both repentance and faith are God’s gifts, wrought in man. Thus the Orthodox Baptist Confession of Faith declares under Article 8:
We believe that repentance and faith are solemn and inseparable prerequisites of salvation; that they are inseparable graces wrought in the heart by the quickening Holy Spirit; that the alien sinner, being deeply convicted of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment to come by the personal ministry of the Holy Spirit, and by Him having his understanding enlightened so that he can see the way of salvation through Christ, does actually repent, turning to God with unfeigned contrition, confession, and supplication, and does actually believe, surrendering himself wholeheartedly to the Lord Jesus, immediately receiving Him as personal and all-sufficient Savior and openly confessing Him before all men. —published by the First Orthodox Baptist Church, Ardmore, Oklahoma, 1965.​
The fallacy of thinking that man’s will is free is also to be seen in the divine declarations of God’s absolute sovereignty. God does for man what man cannot do for himself, and thus we see God’s will declared to be the moving force in: (1) The new birth: "Of His own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jam. 1:18; see also John 1:13). (2) The sanctification of the born again: "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Heb. 10:10). (3) Predestination: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will...In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" (Eph. 1:5,11). (4) Revelation: "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he bath purposed in himself" (Eph. 1:9). (5) Faith: "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:29; see also Acts 13:48f). (6) The security of the saved: "Even so it is not the will of our Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish" (Matthew 18:14). "And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he bath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day" (John 6:39). (7) Deliverance from this present evil world: "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal. 1:4). (8) Inspiration of the Scriptures: "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Pet. 1:21). (9) The appointing to offices: "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God" (Eph. 1:1). (10) The giving of spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12:11).

Proud man would like to think that he is, as William Ernest Henley wrote in his poem "Invictus," "master of my fate, and captain of my soul," but both Scripture and history abound with examples of men whose attempted control of their own destinies resulted only in the eternal destruction of their souls. Whatever of good that has ever been found in any man, is not the result of any "free will" in him, but is directly ascribable to the providence and provision of God (See Jam. 1:17).
Now it is evident, that from a totally depraved heart pure affections and actions cannot proceed. —Consequently whatever of holiness there is in any human being, must proceed from the Spirit of God...How God exerts upon the human mind a sanctifying and controlling influence without interfering with its free agency and accountability, we cannot explain; but that he does so, is too clear to be disputed. —N.L. Rice, God Sovereign And Man Free, p. 29. Presbyterian Board of Publication, Philadelphia, 1850.​
II. THE FOUNDATION OF FREE WILL.
The underlying idea of what is generally termed "free will" is very flattering to the carnal nature of man, and it takes some real grace and self-denial to accept any other view, but what is generally meant by "free will" is based upon some rotten foundations and some unscriptural ideas. First, it is founded upon the idea of human self-sufficiency and self-reliance, which is an outright denial of the doctrine of the total depravity of man; it is impossible to consistently hold to both of these doctrines, for they are contradictory. If man is totally depraved, as the Scriptures teach, and as Baptists have long held, then there is nothing in man that would be acceptable to God, nor could he perform any spiritual act that would be pleasing to God.
Romans 3:9-12 shows the race-wide extensiveness of depravity: "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." This whole portion denies any spiritual ability or desire in man; it is a denunciation of man’s sinfulness in the following ways, (Note how this portion also shows that man’s whole nature is depraved): (1) Since all men without exception are referred to in verse 10, it shows that man’s nature is wholly evil, for none are excepted. (2) The mental faculties are referred to in verse 11, and it is shown that there is no desire to learn of, nor to seek God. (3) Consequently, the deeds are wholly evil, and all men are shown to be living in rebellion against God’s will (v. 12). (4) Even the speech of the natural man is perverted and depraved (vv.13-14). This is the index of the heart according to Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 12:34-37. (5) Evil also characterizes the feet and the daily walk of the natural man (vv. 15-16.) (6) Finally, their whole outlook, signified by their eyes, is one of willing ignorance and unconcern about spiritual truth, (vv. 17-18). Here is a tragic but true picture of mankind in its natural state; it is hard to conceive of a stronger statement of man’s total depravity than this. Who can see any good predicated of man here?
Romans 7:18 likewise shows that this depravity is total in the natural man: "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." Paul spoke this as a Christian, possessed of two natures which were constantly at war with one another: but the natural man does not have a regenerated spiritual nature to resist the flesh; he is wholly a fleshly man, under the domination of this carnal nature, in which Paul declares "dwelleth (literally, ‘is at home’) no good thing," but which is in a continual state of willful rebellion against the will of God. Man’s will is bent in but one direction—away from God and toward sin. If John 15:5f is true of believers—"without me ye can do nothing" —how much more so is it true of the natural man who has no spiritual nature to strive against the flesh?

Second, the idea of a free-will in man is based upon a denial of man’s fall in Eden, or else, it holds that the fall was only a minor and temporary hurt which was of no consequence. Charles Spurgeon rightly says:
Any one who believes that man’s will is entirely free, and that he can be saved by it, does not believe the fall. As I sometimes tell you, few preachers of religion do believe thoroughly the doctrine of the fall, or else they think that when Adam fell down he broke his little finger, and did not break his neck and ruin his race. Why, beloved, the fall broke man up entirely. It did not leave one power unimpaired; they were all shattered, and debased, and tarnished; like some mighty temple, the pillars might be there, the shaft, and the column, and the pilaster, might be there; but they were all broken, though some of them retain much of their form and position. —The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol. I, p. 401. Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1963.​
Too many people today have a very loose idea of all that took place when Adam sinned in the garden; they seem to have the idea that Adam suffered nothing more than a hangnail in the fall, and that he did not pass even this on to his posterity. But this is a great mistake; when Adam sinned, he did so as the covenant head of all his descendents, and his rebellion was theirs, and so the promised death came upon every one of Adam’s descendents: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom. 5:12). In his original constitution, Adam was possessed of "free will" in the fullest meaning of the word, but by his sin he became possessed of a fallen and totally depraved nature, and it was this that he passed on to his descendents by natural generation, as well as the attendant curse of the broken law, so that every descendent of fallen Adam is possessed of the same apostate, fallen nature that he was after his fall. We believe that this is why almost every modernist denies the Genesis account of creation and the fall: in their carnal pride, they are unwilling to admit to a state of being which is beyond the ability of the natural man to remedy for himself, and so the modernist compounds the evil of his own nature by denying the reality of the fall. In describing the apostasy of our first parents, Dr. S. J. Baird well describes modern man as well. He says:
Hence, the very act of apostasy—and that is the very essence of sin—is such a turning away from God as constitutes, in and of itself, the assumption of a hostile attitude, the embrace of aversion to him, and the submitting of all the powers to this hostile tendency. And, since all the powers are comprehended by this alien influence, it is evident that there is, in the apostate, nothing upon which can be predicated the possibility of his unaided return; but, on the contrary, the aversion will continually bear the being further away from God, and widens forever, the gulf between. —The Elohim Revealed, p. 396. Lindsay and Blakiston, Philadelphia„ 1860.​
By his sin, man became wholly a fleshly man, and "the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God" (Rom. 8:7-8, R. V.), so that by the fall of man in Eden, man became incapacitated to will and to do what is right, and those who hold that he can, set themselves against the doctrine of the fall. See further the chapter on "The Fruits Of Man’s Fall."

The idea of man having free will is also founded upon self-deceit, for man is unwilling to believe that he is as bad off spiritually as he is, but he thinks that he has the power to remedy his own case. The natural man is like a person who has cancer, and is told by the doctor that only radical surgery done immediately can give any hope of life, but who steadfastly refuses the doctor’s diagnosis, and thinks that by taking aspirin and killing the pain that he shall soon be cured of the malady. We know that the result of such folly would be a certain and very painful death; but the natural man’s condition is even more solemn, the cure is even more sure, and the results of not receiving the diagnosis of the Great Physician are even more dreadful. Yet the natural man is self-deceived into thinking that he can take care of his own problem without any help from God, for he flatters himself that he has "free will," and that this is sufficient to get him to heaven. After all, he reasons, is it not simply a matter of being willing to believe that Jesus died and that He will receive all who assent to this fact? Unfortunately, many preachers have encouraged men in this matter by telling them that they only need to change their minds and to will that it be as they desire it to be, and it will be. A. W. Pink says:
The subject of his moral impotence is far from being a pleasing one to the natural man. He wants to be told that all he needs to do is exert himself, that salvation lies within the power of his will, that he is the determiner of his own destiny. Pride, with its strong dislike of being a debtor to the sovereign grace of God, rises up against it. Self-esteem, with its rabid repugnance of anything which lays the creature in the dust, hotly resents what is so humiliating. Consequently, this truth is either openly rejected or, if seemingly received, is turned to a wrong use. —Gleanings From The Scriptures: Man’s Total Depravity, p. 216. Moody Press, Chicago, 1969.​
Thus, the foundation of this idea of free will also lies in a strong tendency to believe in self-salvation—that one can believe in and receive Christ at any time. The error in this lies in a mistaken view of what the Scripture means when it refers to believing in Christ or receiving Christ. We live in a time which is characterized by an "easy-believism" theology; men have substituted an intellectual faith—a mere belief about Christ, a mere creedal acceptance of Him—for a heart faith belief that touches the whole man, and which results in a complete trust in Christ for eternal salvation. It is possible to miss being saved by eighteen inches—the distance from the head to the heart. Anyone can believe about Christ and can give an assent to a Biblical or creedal statement about Christ, but this is not a saving faith. Anyone can make a public profession of having received Christ as savior, but this does not make it so. God alone gives men the power and authority to become the sons of God, and He gives this only to those who believe on Jesus (John 1:12). There is a world of difference between believing Christ, believing about Christ, and believing on Christ. The latter involves a trust and reliance which looks away from all else, and which looks only to Christ, and no one has this kind of a faith so long as he is trusting also in water, works, worth, will or anything else that originates with man and which is capable of being performed by him.
Jonah said "Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9), and this is the consistent teaching of the Scriptures, and never is there so much as a hint that man has anything at all to do with the spiritual salvation of his soul; rarely, he is admonished to save himself, but this always refers to a mere physical or moral deliverance. On the other hand, man’s regeneration is always spoken of as being God’s work, in which man is passive until the Spirit quickens him, after which he manifests this fact by faith.
III. THE FAULT OF FREE WILL.
The first fault, and one that lies at the root of many others, is that this theory refuses to recognize that man is wholly in bondage to sin. Listen to Paul’s declaration in Romans 7:18-21: "For I know that in me (that is: in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me." If this incapacity is in the believer, then how much more so is it true of the natural man who has no spiritual nature about him? The great fault of this theory of man’s will is that before it declares man’s supposed ability to do spiritual acts and good deeds, it lowers the divine standard to the capability of the natural man. As someone has well said, "I can jump over any church steeple, provided I am allowed to say how high that steeple can be."

Man originally had a perfect freedom of the will before the fall, and the justified man will again have it after he has been glorified, but presently he does not have this. E. G. Robinson describes this ideal state as follows:
There yet remains to be considered the last and profoundest meaning that has been attached to the phrase, Freedom of the Will. This conceives of man as an ideally perfect being, in whom all the functions of his nature are in absolute accord. What his will demands, all the higher powers of his nature approve; and what these higher powers command, his will spontaneously elects. He instinctively chooses the good, and his whole nature conspires toward the realization of his choice. Such an one must be the possessor of real freedom—a freedom which is the noblest distinction and the crowning glory of a personal existence; and such is the freedom, the freedom of a perfectly well-balanced nature, which the unfallen or ideal man must be supposed to have possessed. But from this original estate both conscience and Scripture now declare man to have deeply fallen; (John 8:34; Rom. 3:11-18; 6:16; 7:14; Eph. 2:2,3). His moral being is in a state of anarchy; his affections are corrupted; his understanding is darkened; his will rebels against the higher powers of his soul; he is in bondage to the spirit of evil that has usurped the control of him. —Christian Theology, pp. 134-135. Press. of E. R. Andrews, Rochester, N. Y., 1894.​
This fearful state of the fallen man is declared in Ephesians 2:1-3: "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath even as others." This shows the true condition of the natural man to be: (1) Spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. (2) Walking in harmony with the world and the devil. (3) A state of disobedience. (4) A walk characterized by the lusts of the flesh, which is simply a fulfilling of the "wills" (margin) of the flesh and of the mind. This clearly shows the bent of the will in the unregenerate to be wholly to evil; and it is this will that is so exalted today and boasted to be "free."
The same thought is set forth in 1 Peter 4:3: "For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries." The unregenerate will is always seen to be evil in its tendencies, and the reader is challenged to produce a single instance where the will of the unregenerate, natural man is ever seen to be capable of a single truly good or spiritual act apart from the divine enabling.
A second fault of this view of man’s will is that it always fails to glorify God, but it always puts the glory upon man’s supposed ability; this is but natural, for if man by nature has this ability to repent and believe at any time without the aid of divine grace, then God deserves no praise beyond what is given for His creation of man. However, we are told in Isaiah 42:8, and the context shows that it is in reference to Jesus’ redemptive work, that: "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Hence, the Lord denies that anyone else has a part in salvation, for He claims all of the praise, which would not be the case if man’s "free will" entered into it. God has created all things for His own glory (Rev. 4:11), yet that glory is stolen from Him in great part by those who exalt their own abilities, and trust in their own will to put them into a right relation with the Lord.
Another of the faults of the belief in free will is its tendency, to produce other and worse beliefs, such as: (1) Procrastination. Because of their belief in their own free will, many people keep putting off repenting and submitting themselves unto the Lord, for if they are possessed of a free will that makes it possible for them to turn to God at any time they please, then later will do just as well as now, and they can drink to the full of the world in the meanwhile. (2) Apostasy of the soul is a twin-sister doctrine to this one of free-will, for it is held that if one can turn unto God at any time by the mere exercise of the will, then he may also turn away from God and be lost again at any time. This logically follows, but it is incorrect, because both ideas are founded upon erroneous foundations. (3) This theory has been well tested by time, and the result of holding it has almost always been that it leads into Socinianism, Pelagianism or Unitarianism. Arminianism is bad enough, but these other three are strictly spiritual poisons which damn the souls of all who hold to them. One has but to look to the English General Baptists, and to some of the Baptists of New England, both of whom held this theory of the will, and he will find that this was the almost unvarying result: both were taken over by these other beliefs and soon completely lost their identity as Baptists. On the other hand, the Particular Baptists, who have never held to the freedom of the will, have never been troubled with any considerable defections to Socinianism, Pelagianism or Unitarianism.
CONCLUSION.
We feel that we must reject this general view of freewill, for the will of the natural man, being wholly depraved and perverted, cannot and does not desire to do God’s will in anything. On the contrary, the mind of the natural man is "enmity against God," and how then could its will ever be in harmony with the will of God, From experience, the believer is compelled to admit that he still cannot do the things that his spiritual nature desires to do, for the will of the flesh is still a potent force.
What then? How can man be rescued from this dilemma? He must recognize that only by the infusion of a new principle in him—being quickened and regenerated by the Holy Spirit—can he be fitted to do God’s will. Apart from God’s grace, we cannot do anything good or right, but with God’s grace working in us, we will both will and do His will. We shall be willing in the day when He exerts His power in us (Ps. 110:3). We are accountable to use the means of grace that are given to us, for by the hearing of the reading and preaching of the Word, faith is instilled in men, and they are sanctified and made fit for the Master’s use. We are all created for God’s glory, not for our own, and we shall never have joy and contentment until we achieve the purpose for which we were created. Because of God’s gracious dealings with the sons of men, we occupy a glorious position as the born-again sons of God. We ought to glorify God for His grace that places us in such an exalted position.


http://www.pbministries.org/Theology...octrine_07.htm
 
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cygnusx1

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http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:b3RM-sFnkxMJ:home.rochester.rr.com/matthewl/predestination/essay/


"Luther&#8217;s strong position on predestination stands in stark contrast to modern apathy over the issue. Most Christian laypeople don&#8217;t even find the issue of predestination important enough to discuss at the dinner table, much less start a Reformation over! But it is easy to see why Luther held this doctrine as the most important of all[5]. Salvation by grace alone means that we are converted by grace alone, not by grace plus freewill.
Catholics opposed Luther by saying that they, too, taught the necessity of grace to save us. Strictly speaking, this is true, but the role of grace is completely different under the two systems. &#8220;What the [Roman Catholics] described as grace, Luther described as legalism.&#8221;[6] Under the Catholic view of salvation, God gives us grace and expects us to cooperate with this grace by our own freewill. Under the Reformed view, the grace of God is completely effective in saving those people it is given to. This later understanding of grace glorifies God because it gives him all of the credit for salvation. It humbles man because it admits that he is spiritually helpless to save himself by an act of willing or working. At bottom, we are not Christians because we were wise enough to make the right decision or worked hard enough to get it. We are Christians because God decided to save us. D. A. Carson presents the following analogy:

Picture a judge rightly condemning ten criminals, and offering each of them pardon. Five of them accept the pardon, the other five reject it (the relative numbers are not important). But in this model, even though those who accept the pardon do not earn it, and certainly enjoy their new freedom because of the judge&#8217;s &#8220;grace,&#8221; nevertheless they are distinguishable from those who reject the offer solely on the basis of their own decision to accept the pardon. The only thing that separates them from those who are carted off to prison is the wisdom of their own choice. That becomes a legitimate boast. By contrast, in the Calvinistic scheme, the sole determining factor is God&#8217;s elective grace.[7]

In reality, no one can boast in his choice to become a Christian because it is God who causes us to choose Christ. Paul wrote, &#8220;But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise . . . so that no one may boast before him&#8221; (1 Cor. 1:27, 29). Paul was opposed to any doctrine that gave man some of the credit for his salvation. This is why he adamantly opposed salvation by works. He wrote, &#8220;For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast&#8221; (Eph. 2:8-9). Salvation is not based on works so that no one can boast in his own endeavors to make himself a Christian. It is also true that the reason God predestines some men to be saved and not others is so that Christians will not think they were saved by their own works. Again Paul says,

Not only that, but Rebekah's children [Jacob and Esau] had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad &#8211; in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls--she was told, &#8220;The older will serve the younger.&#8221; Just as it is written: &#8220;Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated&#8221; (Rom. 9:10-13).

Paul&#8217;s argument is that the reason Jacob&#8217;s salvation was not based on works is because it was based on God&#8217;s sovereign choice. It is crucial to see this point. Later in Romans Paul says the same thing: &#8220;at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace&#8221; (Rom. 11:5-6). The grace of salvation is the grace of election; no work we do can initiate our conversion to Christ because God&#8217;s choice of us based on his grace, not our works. If salvation is based on our freewill, then the words of Paul are meaningless when he says, &#8220;So then [salvation] does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy&#8221; (Rom. 9:16, nasb). I do not think that Paul could have been clearer in his assertion that holding onto a doctrine of freewill is dangerously close to holding onto a doctrine of salvation by human effort.
The connection between freewill and works-based salvation was not imagined by Luther. It is made explicit in some discussions of freewill even today. James Sennet, in an article already referred to in this essay, speculates as to why God would have given man freewill in the first place: &#8220;One might . . . suggest that [the value of] freedom . . . is the potential for or actual possession of a certain God-like quality &#8211; the quality of self-determined righteousness [!!!].&#8221;[8] What this quotation shows is that exalting freewill can directly lead to the idea that men make themselves righteous by their own will-power and works. The New Testament screams against this conclusion on nearly every page! Contrast Sennet&#8217;s view with Saint Paul&#8217;s: &#8220;not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law&#8221; (Phil. 3:9); &#8220;he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy&#8221; (Tit. 3:5); &#8220;[God] has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time&#8221; (2 Tim. 1:9). I am struck as to why anyone would think that the value of freewill is in its potential for men to make themselves righteous by their own choosing. I hope my readers can see that taking freewill to its logical extreme opens the door for believing we are saved by human merit. The view that we are saved by a &#8220;self-determined righteousness&#8221; is exactly the error Paul spent so much energy and frustration trying to refute."
 
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da525382

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I think I am understanding how we cannot have freewill in our salvation, and scripture seems to be very clear on that. However, I am still wondering how to respond to someone who says we have freewill CONTINUING in God's grace. That is, we have the freewill to walk away from His grace. Would anyone here be willing to comment on this? Thanks,

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McWilliams

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A regenerate heart cannot become unregenerate! A baby cannot become 'unborn'.

Once the Holy Spirit regenerates our heart and we catch a glimpse of a holy sovereign God we see our sin and cry out with Isaiah, 'Woe is me for I am undone', fall in humble repentance before Him and are so overwhelmed by such great mercy and grace bestowed on us that we are then forever hungering for His righteousness and seek Him in progressive sanctification, so eager to become pleasing to HIm. We then produce fruits of love, joy and peace and those as in Gal 5:22. We are kept by His power and those who appear to break away from such grace never knew Him to begin with; as it states clearly in 1 John 2:19 and 1 John 5:4.
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith!!
Blessings on your walk with Him in discernment and truth!
 
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cygnusx1

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I think I am understanding how we cannot have freewill in our salvation, and scripture seems to be very clear on that. However, I am still wondering how to respond to someone who says we have freewill CONTINUING in God's grace. That is, we have the freewill to walk away from His grace. Would anyone here be willing to comment on this? Thanks,

Don

hi Don

John 10


23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30I and my Father are one. 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
 
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cygnusx1

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"What denominations embrace Calvinism today?

Calvinism, or Reformed theology in general, is predominant in the following denominations: National Primitive Baptist Convention of the USA (1 million members), Presbyterian Church in America (200,000 members), Reformed Church in America (200,000 members), Evangelical Covenant Church (90,000 members), Primitive Baptists (72,000 members), Moravian Church (60,000 members), Evangelical Presbyterian Church (56,000), Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches (40,000), remnants of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (40,000), Reformed Baptists (300 to 400 churches), Orthodox Presbyterian Church (20,000 members), and about ten other denominations, each with memberships between 1,000 and 10,000. A large number of Congregationalist churches are also Calvinist. Nearly all churches in these denominations classify themselves as evangelical or fundamentalist, and most (non-Primitive) support education and missions programs."

http://faith.propadeutic.com/calvinism.html
 
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cygnusx1

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Here is some of what Calvin thought of Augustine: &#8220;If I were inclined to compile a whole volume from Augustine, I could easily show my readers, that I need no words but his&#8230;&#8221;. In addition, &#8220;Augustine is so wholly with me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so&#8230;out of his writings&#8221;. (Institutes: 3. 22)
 
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DUDLEY61

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The True Church

"After all, there is a Protestantism still worth contending for, there is a Calvinism still worth proclaiming, and a gospel well worth dying for" (CH Spurgeon)

The Roman Pope has recently reaffirmed the pre-Vatican II teaching that Protestant churches are Ecclesial communities without the fullness of truth. Only the Roman Catholic church says Benedict has the fullness of truth. I am a former Roman Catholic. I have only been a Protestant for a little over a year. I am now studying to become a Presbyterian. I think God has led me to become a Protestant and Presbyterian. What started as a study on the Protestant Reformation has led to a conversion to Protestantism for me.

I believe in One God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- and I confess anew the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord, and acknowledge Him Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body.

I believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the Word of God; they are the only infallible rule of faith and practice

I sincerely receive and adopt the Westminster Confession and Larger and Shorter Catechisms as containing the system of doctrine taught in the Holy Scriptures and I submit to the teachings of the Presbyterian Protestant tenets and doctrine.

I believe the Bible as the word of God and the only and final authority and path to salvation I submit in discipline to the doctrines of John Calvin and the teachings of the Presbyterian Church in doctrine and life.

It is Christ alone who is salvation to our souls, not the Church of Rome or the Pope"

It is Christ alone who is salvation to our souls. Rome taught at the time of the Reformation that there was no salvation outside the Church of Rome. Unfortunately She is now reverting to that same false claim. The Reformers regarded the Church of Rome to have seceded from Christ and the Apostolic Church. The aims of the Reformers were to return to the pure Gospel and practices of the Early Church. I left Roman Catholicism for the same reason. As a Roman Catholic I was a slave to the Institutional Roman Church. Now as a Reformed Protestant I am a servant of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

As a Roman Catholic I had to go to Jesus through the priest and the church as a Presbyterian and a Protestant I go to my Lord and Savior directly. As a Protestant the church is there to assist me not to direct and control me.

I Acknowledge Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Why I became a Protestant and why I am studying to become a Presbyterian

I began doing an extensive study of the Protestant Reformation from the perspective of Protestant writers and Theologians. I centered a lot on the reformers Luther, Calvin and Knox. I studied Luther's Doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone and I began concentrating on the Reformed Theology of Calvin and Knox. I then read the Westminster Confession of Faith and the short and long catechisms of the Presbyterian Church. I started to attend services a 3 different Presbyterian churches a few months back. Recently I have joined 2 of them in the Lords Supper. I now believe in the Presbyterian reformed teaching of The Lord's Supper. That it was instituted by Jesus the same night he was betrayed, to be only a symbolic remembrance of the sacrifice of himself in his death and for our spiritual nourishment, and growth in him, and as a bond and pledge of our communion with him, and with each other. I submit and believe as a Protestant and a Presbyterian that there are only 2 sacraments, Baptism and the Lords Supper, not 7 as I was taught in the Roman Catholic Church. I use to believe as a Roman Catholic that the bread and wine became the body and blood of Christ at the mass. They call that Transubstantiation. It is a Roman Catholic doctrine, which maintains a change of the substance of bread and wine, into the substance of Christ's body and blood, commonly called transubstantiation, by consecration of a priest. I now renounce that belief and I now believe it is repugnant not to Scripture but even to common sense and reason. It destroys the true nature of the ordinance or sacrament of the Lords Supper. I now am able to see the notion and teaching of Transubstantiation, the bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Christ is ludicrous and a denial of Christ dying for all our sins. Now that I have understood the Protestant doctrine of Justification I also can see the apostasy and of the Roman Catholic Eucharist and the Mass. Roman Catholicism says the Mass is a reenactment of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. The adoration of a "bread wafer” in a monstrance is in itself idolatry. I now believe as a Protestant that the Mass is the greatest possible blasphemy of the “once for all”; all sufficient, all atoning, all completed blood shedding of Christ on the Cross. The teaching of Transubstantiation and the sacrifice of the Mass I now renounce the practice of both, as did Calvin and many other reformers.

I now believe and it is my experience that Reformed worship as done in the Presbyterian service is beautiful. It does not have the sensual rituals of Romanism; its beauty is in its simplicity.
Ps. 29:2 “Ascribe to the Lord the Glory due his name; worship the Lord in the splendor of his holiness ” I find its beauty in the preaching of the Word of God in a simple but unadorned manner. The administration of the Lords Supper is also done in the same simple manner. The rituals of the roman mass and the symbols surrounding it I now believe detract from the revelation of Christ’s simple teachings and truth. The Presbyterian way of worship and celebration of the Lords Supper is biblically sound and the way I believe Christ intended it. It is the most spiritually nourishing service and sacrament of any Christian church, another reason I have decided to become a Presbyterian.

I started the project to discover and know myself better as a Christian. As a Christian my life faith journey was Roman Catholic and catholic school educated. I was a history major in college and my study of the reformation and the reformers was generally more from the Roman Catholic perspective. I have now studied the Council of Trent from the perspective of conservative mainstream Protestant writers and I am now seeing a view of that council as a knee jerk reaction to the Reformation and the authority of Rome. I am now studying the theology of the Presbyterian Church. I also began reading the theological perspective of the way Protestant theologians view Catholicism what I have read has been very eye opening. I realize now I do believe in the Protestant doctrine of faith by Justification. I have decided to become a Presbyterian.

Having been a Roman Catholic all my life I can now see many of the errors of Rome. I am well versed in the Roman Catholic theology. I studied the Luther first and Lutheran theology and attended Lutheran as well as Episcopalian services. They are both similar in many ways to the Roman church. I became very interested when I discovered Calvin and Knox and the Presbyterian Church and the Protestant Reformed Theology. My interest, study and then joining in worship led me to decide to convert to the Presbyterian Protestant Church. I now believe the Reformed Faith and doctrines of the Presbyterian Protestant fold to be the most solidly Biblical. They also explain salvation history and covenants better than any other method of theology.

As a Roman Catholic I always thought it was the Protestant fold that strayed, I now see that the Roman church strayed. I believe I am born again in the Gospel of Christ. I believe I am a better Christian. I now stand for the truth of salvation by faith alone, through free and sovereign grace alone, by the finished work of Christ alone. I Believe Rome is wrong in not accepting the doctrine.


In a Protestant website I read the following definition of Protestant. I think it is very good. It states why I am now a Protestant.

1) CAN YOU DEFINE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE TERM "PROTESTANT"?

Yes. I do not use it in any denominational way i.e. denoting membership of any one Protestant denomination or with any political meaning. It is used to designate one who believes in the doctrines of the Protestant Reformation i.e. the authority of the Bible alone in all matters of faith and practice and that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

I studied the Protestant Reformation with fervor and I became convinced and a believer in the doctrines of the Protestant Reformation. When I accepted the authority of the Bible alone in all matters of faith and realized that salvation is by grace alone could no longer say I was a Roman Catholic or an Episcopalian. I renounced also the ecclesiastical authorities of both churches. I renounced the authority of the Bishop of Rome as Christ’s head of his church on earth. I fully understood that only Christ heads his church. When I renounced the Ecclesiastical structure, I searched and found Calvin, Knox and the Presbyterian denomination. I knew I was a Protestant but not yet a Presbyterian. I wanted to find a Protestant denomination that I believed had the purest form of the Gospel.

It was in that search I became a Presbyterian in faith not only a Protestant.

As a roman catholic I needed to belong to the Roman Church to be saved. I had to do good works and work with much effort and much guilt to save myself. I know now as a Protestant that none of this could save my soul. Salvation was bestowed because of God’s mercy. Salvation by Faith alone...the Protestant doctrine of Justification. I now understand the scripture when it says
In Titus Ch. 2 v. 11, I read: “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.”
These words make it very clear that Salvation is by Grace. It is God reaching down to the helpless sinner, revealing to him that He loves him so much that He sent His Son to the cross. There, He took the sinner’s place by becoming his substitute. He paid the penalty for sin that the sinner should have paid.

The following also attests to the Protestant doctrine of Justification. It also attests to me why the Church of Rome is wrong in condemning the Protestant doctrine and distorting the truth. It is why I am now a Protestant and why I renounced the RC church.

In Titus Ch. 3 v. 4 - 5, I read: “But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...”.

The words of Romans Ch. 3 v. 24, summed it all up. They read: “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” I could now see that God gave Salvation FREELY to sinful man. The sinner was not required to work for it.

I have decided to become a Presbyterian because I asked myself "Either the Catholic Church is very right, OR if it’s not, it’s very wrong?" I knew it was wrong and a false teacher of the true Gospel of Christ and there can no in-between on this issue. I always knew that Transubstantiation denied the sovereignty of God. The reformed theology is the only Protestant theology that praises the sovereignty of God and the governmental structure is biblically sound. I believe the Presbyterian Fold is the pure and true Christian church. It’s why I want to profess my faith as a Presbyterian. I’m now a Protestant and a Presbyterian. Some Protestants and I believe some Presbyterians don't understand that we are both Protestant but also Presbyterian. That is very important for Presbyterians to understand. As a former Roman Catholic who searched hard for that truth I cherish it! I am so happy that I have found the truth of salvation. It is why I left the Roman Catholic Church and its distorted teaching of tradition along with the Bible. I renounced the Roman church and its view of the Bishop of Rome as the final authority and head of the church. As a Protestant I believe the Bible is the final Authority. As a Protestant I believe Christ alone is head of his church. As a Presbyterian we are all members of the Priesthood of Christ. It is why I am now an evangelizing Protestant who looks forward to professing my faith publicly as a Presbyterian.

Sincerely,
Dudley Davis
New memberof the Westminster Fellowship
 
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