Disregard Conspiracy Theories

[Mr. M]

Isaiah 8:
11 For the Lord spoke thus to me with a strong hand,
and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense...

"Don’t be fooled by those who say such things, for
bad company corrupts good character."

Matthew 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

Beware of false prophecies that manifest as "conspiracy theories".

 

[AlexB23]

Isaiah 8:
11 For the Lord spoke thus to me with a strong hand,
and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense...

"Don’t be fooled by those who say such things, for
bad company corrupts good character."

Matthew 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

Beware of false prophecies that manifest as "conspiracy theories".

Amen, brother. Do not forget this verse also, from Ephesians.

Ephesians 4:25 "Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another."

 

[Logicalpaladin]

It’s interesting that he said “not all”. So sometimes there are conspiracies.

Psalm 59:3
See how they lie in wait for me! Fierce men conspire against me for no offense or sin of mine, Lord.

Psalm 2​

1 Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain?

Acts 4:27
Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.

Micah 7:3
Both hands are skilled in doing evil; the ruler demands gifts, the judge accepts bribes, the powerful dictate what they desire— they all conspire together.

Jesus and David were victims of conspiracy. Add to that the victims of the conspiracy of the nations, which makes us all a victim of conspiracies. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Mr. M]

It’s interesting that he said “not all”. So sometimes there are conspiracies.

Could you point this out?
Here is what the Lord spoke by Isaiah,
as cited in the OP:

11 For the Lord spoke thus to me with a strong hand,
and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that these people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.

"Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy"
To bring to a modern context, it would be what
you see in our society every day.

Should Christians get up in arms over the latest conspiracy theory?

13 The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense...

Jesus and David were victims of conspiracy.

This is stating the obvious, but okay. No where
in the OP is there any suggestions that there
were no conspiracies in the Bible.
Absalom's against his father David lead to
a civil war.

Add to that the victims of the conspiracy of the nations, which makes us all a victim of conspiracies. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

The point of the instruction is not to be a victim, or fall under deception...
Depends how "the baby" was conceived.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony!
If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

 

[keras]

The Prophet Isaiah 8:5-22, in a modern translation:
Isaiah 8:5-8 The Lord says: Because this nation [Judah] has rejected the gentle water of Shiloh, [Isaiah 5:24: the Laws and Covenant of God] then I will bring against them a flood. They will sweep through Judah and conquer the whole Land.
This was fulfilled by the Babylonian and the Roman captivities. Isaiah 5:13, 2 Kings 17:18-20. But Ezekiel 21:14 says there will be: 3 swings of the Sword against Judah. The third disaster of Judah will be from the Lord Himself. Isaiah 29:1-4, Ezekiel 21:1-7

Isaiah 8:9-10 Take note, you nations, you too will be shattered. Listen you distant peoples of the earth, prepare yourselves , devise your plans, but they will not be carried out, for the Lord is with us. Micah 4:11-12

Isaiah 8:11-15 The Lord told me not to follow the ways of this people, not to agree to any alliance or treaty that they agree to or to fear what they fear. Isaiah 28:14-15 The Lord is the One that you must regard with fear and awe, He is the One you must hold sacred.

But for the House of Israel and the House of Judah, He will be as a stone that causes people to trip and for the people of Jerusalem, He will be as a trap, that makes many fall and suffer. Zechariah 12:3

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the message, seal the instruction, so that it cannot be consulted by My disciples. 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Isaiah 29:11

Isaiah 8:17-18 I shall wait eagerly for the Lord, who is hiding His face from Israel, I shall put my trust in Him. Here we are: all children of our Lord – we are the signs and symbols of Israel, sent by the Lord, who dwells on Mt Zion.

Isaiah 8:19-22 Others will suggest that you consult mediums and spiritualists, who whisper and mutter, but why ask the dead for instruction, when what they say brings no light? So despondency and fear will come over those people, in their futile search for the truth, they will rebel against their rulers and their gods. Wherever they look, all is gloom and darkness and there will be no escape for them. Hosea 4:12, Jeremiah 29:8-9, Isaiah 66:17

Isaiah 33:13-16 You dwellers afar off, hear what I have done, acknowledge My might, you that are near at hand. The godless sinners in Zion will quake with terror, with trembling they ask: Can any of us live with a devouring fire, in perpetual flames?
The people who behave uprightly and speak the truth, who scorn to enrich themselves by extortion or bribery. Those who keep their ears and eyes from evil, it is these people who will dwell in safety, with their food assured and water never failing them.

Isaiah 33:24 No one living there will say; I am sick and the sins of the people who [will] live in the Land will be pardoned. Isaiah 44:22, Psalms 103:1-5, Ezekiel 37:20-27
Reference: REB some verses abridged

Listen you distant peoples, the plans and preparations of the ungodly peoples, to occupy all of the Holy Land and wipe Israel off the map, will not prevail. Psalms 83:1-18

you dwellers afar off: Our situation now; Christians scattered around the world. 1 Peter 1:1

Here we are: all children of the Lord; Romans 9:24-26. Faithful Christian believers are now the Israelites of God, individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language are the Lords holy people. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:6-8, Revelation 5:9-10

it is these people who will dwell in safety and prosperity: Soon after the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, that will clear and cleanse all the holy Land, the call will go out to all the people who stood firm in their faith, Zechariah 10:8-12, to gather and live there, Hosea 2:14-23, Jeremiah 31:8-9, as God always intended His Israelite, now: the Christian peoples to be His witnesses and a light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10. Isaiah 49:8

Bind up the message, seal the instruction, so it cannot be consulted by My disciples. Deuteronomy 29:4, Isaiah 29:9-12
It is no wonder that the Christian church cannot sort out or properly understand prophecy. The Lord actually does not want most people to know His plans, however the prophetic Word has been given to us Christians for a reason and for those who genuinely apply themselves, putting aside all preconceived notions and false teaching; then it is possible to discern our future. Daniel 12:4-10, Hosea 12:10, 2 Peter 1:19

 

[Mr. M]

Bind up the message, seal the instruction, so that it cannot be consulted by My disciples

The text does not say this, nor is it logical that the message is sealed from the learned.
Psalm 50:
4 “The Lord God has given Me
The tongue of the learned,
That I should know how to speak
A word in season to him who is weary.
He awakens Me morning by morning,
He awakens My ear
To hear as the learned.
5 The Lord God has opened My ear;
And I was not rebellious,
Nor did I turn away.

A disciple must learn the Way of the Lord;
This is a sound apostolic doctrine...
Ephesians 4:
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk
as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God,
because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness,
to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him,
as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man
which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God,
in true righteousness and holiness.

This is the Way
John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come,
He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own,
but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Apologies to all if this seems unpleasant, but I have never found
the witness of this member to be reliable, and I will not begin today.
"Let each be fully persuaded in their own mind". Romans 14:5

 

[AlexB23]

Hey, for both of you, here is what the Bible says about conspiracies. We already covered Ephesians 4:25, but there is a really good passage from Isaiah 8:11-15.

Date	May 5, 2024
Verse	Ephesians 4:25 (ESV): "Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another." Isaiah 8:11-15 (ESV): "For the Lord spoke thus to me with his strong hand upon me, and warned me not to walk in the way of this people, saying: ‘Do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread. But the Lord of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken.’"
Explanation	The passage from Ephesians 4:25 is encouraging Christians to speak the truth with one another. The context of this verse is a larger section of the letter to the Ephesians that emphasizes unity and love among believers. The verse specifically calls for putting away falsehood and speaking truthfully with neighbors, as members of one another in the body of Christ. This passage is directly related to people telling lies or spreading conspiracy theories because falsehood and conspiracy theories are contrary to truth. The passage from Isaiah 8:11-15 does warn against fearing what the people are frightened by and being in constant fear. Instead, it encourages trust in the Lord and honoring Him as holy. The passage speaks of the Lord becoming a "stone of offense and a rock of stumbling" to the people of Israel, which could be interpreted as a warning against being led astray by false beliefs or conspiracy theories.
Societal Relevance	In the digital age, it is essential for Christians to be discerning and truthful in their use of social media and other forms of communication. Spreading lies or conspiracy theories such as saying that the January 6 attack was peaceful can harm individuals and the body of Christ as a whole. To avoid spreading lies or conspiracy theories, Christians should fact-check information before sharing it, consult reliable sources, and be open to correction when they are wrong. For instance, the Apollo 11 moon landing has been verified with satellites orbiting the moon, such as the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter launched in 2009, showing the items left on the moon back forty years earlier back in July 1969. They should also be cautious about sources that consistently spread false information (extremist news sites from the far fringes of the political spectrum) and seek to discern the motives behind such information. COVID-19 has been proven by multiple countries and independent agencies to be real, masks slow down the spread between individuals, and vaccines reduce the probability of severe illness by ~60-80% (depending on the study). January 6, 2021 has been well documented with thousands of hours of video footage, unedited speech made earlier that day. A Washington DC officer named Jeffrey L. Smith shot himself nine days later due to PTSD from defending the Capitol. Ultimately, Christians are called to be truthful, loving, and unified in their speech and actions, both online and offline.

 

[Logicalpaladin]

Could you point this out?
Here is what the Lord spoke by Isaiah,
as cited in the OP:


"Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy"
To bring to a modern context, it would be what
you see in our society every day.

Should Christians get up in arms over the latest conspiracy theory?




This is stating the obvious, but okay. No where
in the OP is there any suggestions that there
were no conspiracies in the Bible.
Absalom's against his father David lead to
a civil war.


The point of the instruction is not to be a victim, or fall under deception...
Depends how "the baby" was conceived.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony!
If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

“12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that these people call a conspiracy”
My point was that even the Lord said that not all of what they call a conspiracy is to be disregarded as false. You can say some of what they call a conspiracy is a conspiracy. If you take a high and mighty approach and dismiss all of it then you are not following the instruction of the Lord. That’s my point. That’s what throwing out the baby with the bathwater meant. I really don’t understand how that’s even controversial. It’s stated in black and white. If it was all of it then he would have said “do not call a conspiracy any of what these people call a conspiracy.” It’s maybe too simple and seemed like o was saying something more complex. I wasn’t.

 

[Mr. M]

“12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that these people call a conspiracy”
My point was that even the Lord said that not all of what they call a conspiracy is to be disregarded as false.

This does not say "not all of what they call a conspiracy is to be disregarded as false".
It says do not call a conspiracy what these people call a conspiracy.
If you want to dissect and analyze every conspiracy theory out there to see if you
can find some truth, have at it. That is some muddy bath water.

The point is clear in verse 20:

The point of the instruction is not to be a victim, or fall under deception...
Depends how "the baby" was conceived.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony!
If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

Is there an example among any one of the many conspiracy theories circulating
that you would present as having "a kernel of truth"?
Of what value would that be to a believer who makes
the Lord their refuge?

13 The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be a sanctuary,

We are to speak truth to one another, not vague conspiracies that hide the truth.

 

[Logicalpaladin]

‘“It says do not call a conspiracy what these people call a conspiracy.”
I agree that that’s what you are saying it says. But it says something different.
“12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that these people call a conspiracy”
Concerning all. Meaning that sometimes there are conspiracies. There isn’t anything else to say. It’s crystal clear.

 

[Mr. M]

‘“It says do not call a conspiracy what these people call a conspiracy.”
I agree that that’s what you are saying it says. But it says something different.
“12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that these people call a conspiracy”
Concerning all. Meaning that sometimes there are conspiracies. There isn’t anything else to say. It’s crystal clear.

In my life there have always been conspiracies.
I have not found them to be a source of truth.
That is what I have found to be clear.
Agree that there isn't anything else to say...

10 Take counsel together, but it will come to nothing;
Speak the word, but it will not stand,
For God is with us.”
11 For the Lord spoke thus to me with a strong hand,
and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people,
saying:
12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be as a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense
To both the houses of Israel,
As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble;
They shall fall and be broken,
Be snared and taken.”
16 Bind up the testimony,
Seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait on the Lord,
Who hides His face from the house of Jacob;
And I will hope in Him.
18 Here am I and the children whom the Lord has given me!
We are for signs and wonders in Israel
From the Lord of hosts,
Who dwells in Mount Zion.
19 And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards,
who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God?
Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Logicalpaladin]

Are you saying there is no light in me?

 

[Mr. M]

Are you saying there is no light in me?

No, I did not.
I clearly find no Light in
conspiracy theories.

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

Referring to conspiracies.
If you have a conspiracy which originates from
the Word of God, feel free to share.

 

[Mr. M]

14 He will be as a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense
To both the houses of Israel,
As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

The Word of God sweeps away the lies of man.
Isaiah 28:
14 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,
15 Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we are in agreement.
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
It will not come to us,
For we have made lies our refuge,
And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

A Cornerstone in Zion​

16 Therefore thus says the Lord God:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation,
A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
Whoever believes will not act hastily.
17 Also I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the plummet;
The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
18 Your covenant with death will be annulled,
And your agreement with Sheol will not stand;
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
Then you will be trampled down by it.

Romans 9:
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness,
have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written:
Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

The Light of Truth is attained by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

 

[Mr. M]

33 As it is written:
Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.

1 Peter 2:
6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,
8 and A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

It is incomprehensible to me that the Word of God has ever said that there is
some truth in the conspiracies of man that we should not disregard.

 

[Logicalpaladin]

The nations conspire against God and presumably his followers. When Muslims attack a Christian village, have they not conspired against believers?

Radical Islam could qualify as a conspiracy from scripture since they target Jews and. Christian’s.
9/11 was a conspiracy. Even if you take it at face value and believe what’s reported about it.
It seems strange to just make a blanket statement that there are no conspiracies when the Bible talks about so many of them. Kings and Chronicles. Psalms. Samuel. Esther. And of course the big one. Our Lord and savior.

Acts 4:27
Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.

To this day that conspiracy is denied by millions of people. They say it never happened. Who’s right? Was it a conspiracy or was it not because there aren’t any?

Psalm 64:2
Hide me from the conspiracy of the wicked, from the plots of evildoers.

Jeremiah 11:9
Then the Lord said to me, “There is a conspiracy among the people of Judah and those who live in Jerusalem

Acts 23:12

The Plot to Kill Paul​

The next morning some Jews formed a conspiracy and bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.

 

[Mr. M]

It seems strange to just make a blanket statement that there are no conspiracies when the Bible talks about so many of them

There was not at any time a blanket statement about conspiracies, or there being absent from the Bible.
The Word of Faith is not based on the conspiracies, but on the Promises.
11 For the Lord spoke thus to me with a strong hand,
and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people,
saying:
12 “Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.

Conspiracies against God and His people abound!
The Word of God is "be not afraid of their threats,
nor be troubled.
Psalm 2:1 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.

 

[keras]

The text does not say this, nor is it logical that the message is sealed from the learned.

Seems that you have missed the Words of Jesus: Matthew 11:25.....I thank you Father; for hiding these things from the learned and wise, and revealing them to the simple.
These things - the Prophesies.
The simple - those who have not been brainwashed at a Bible College or Seminary.

Apologies to all if this seems unpleasant, but I have never found
the witness of this member to be reliable, and I will not begin today.

This kind of rejection shows to me that I am on the right track, as all the Bible Prophets were rejected and many were killed.
When a persons beliefs are challenged, the proper course of action is to refute them with scriptures, not to denigrate or ignore them.

However; sometimes it is best to just leave it and let the course of time show who is right. OK?

 

[Mr. M]

Seems that you have missed the Words of Jesus: Matthew 11:25.....I thank you Father; for hiding these things from the learned and wise, and revealing them to the simple.
These things - the Prophesies.
The simple - those who have not been brainwashed at a Bible College or Seminary.

This kind of rejection shows to me that I am on the right track, as all the Bible Prophets were rejected and many were killed.
When a persons beliefs are challenged, the proper course of action is to refute them with scriptures, not to denigrate or ignore them.

However; sometimes it is best to just leave it and let the course of time show who is right. OK?

Nothing to do with conspiracy theories. The Lord was speaking of truth, which is lacking in conspiracy theories, and prognosticators who think that the words of the prophets are to be used to make predictions, and number themselves among them.
The thread clearly defines the learned as those taught by God, as in Isaiah 50, and Ephesians 4, not seminary grads.
Now is always a good time to disregard conspiracy theories.

 

[keras]

The Lord was speaking of truth, which is lacking in conspiracy theories, and prognosticators who think that the words of the prophets are to be used to make predictions, and number themselves among them.

The Truth is in the Words of the Bible Prophets.
I am just a messenger, what my name means.