Different kinds of healing?

ByTheSpirit

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Is there video evidence of crippled people, people with heart failure, cerebral palsy, cancer patients, or any other life threatening terminal disease being healed? If the verses in Mark 16 and 1 Corinthians 12 apply to all who believe, there should be widespread video and medical evidence of it. The most prominent proponents who are teaching that these verses apply to all who believe, how come they are not demonstrating what they are preaching? In the 55 years I have been hearing speech making and preaching about healing, I have not seen one person who has been healed of any significant medical condition. What are we missing?

Also, if preachers are going to say that the verses in Mark 16 apply to all believers, how come they are not safely handling snakes and drinking poison as well? If one is going to apply part of the passage, they need to apply it all, don't they?

So, are these passages applicable to all believers if they are to have the required faith, ie: prescriptive; or are they descriptive, maybe happening in some cases, but not a requirement for all believers?

I am really interested in what answers people can give on this question.
Those are really good questions. I don't have video evidence, but I have seen people receive healing as a result of my prayers. Not multitudes, but a few. That is actually part of the reason for my question.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The faith stance that pleases God is:
Hebrews 11:6 KJV
6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Forget about healing for a moment.
Do you want to please God?
Believe. Regardless of what happens or what does not happen.
Believe what God said. Stand fast... even to the end.
People forget that in Heb 11, many of those who believed never received what they were believing for. Yet they believed even unto death. Yet they believed to the end.
The point is not healing, The point is pleasing God by believing... even to the end.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Those are really good questions. I don't have video evidence, but I have seen people receive healing as a result of my prayers. Not multitudes, but a few. That is actually part of the reason for my question.
Maybe because the Church is generally disempowered and distracted from the great commission?

Maybe because the Gospel is confirmed when preached in the world rather than in the church.

Frankly I believe that cessationism was conceived to account for lack of evidence of God's power in the Church - when the reasons for the lack of same, were never addressed.

In my small way I have stepped out in obedience and prayed for folks in the world and seen Him heal. I have medical evidence to prove it.

The harvest is ripe but the workers are very few.
 
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Carl Emerson

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The faith stance that pleases God is:
Hebrews 11:6 KJV
6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Forget about healing for a moment.
Do you want to please God?
Believe. Regardless of what happens or what does not happen.
Believe what God said. Stand fast... even to the end.
People forget that in Heb 11, many of those who believed never received what they were believing for. Yet they believed even unto death. Yet they believed to the end.
The point is not healing, The point is pleasing God by believing... even to the end.

Amen to the above, however the harvest is still ripe and there is a work to do.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Maybe because the Church is generally disempowered and distracted from the great commission?

Maybe because the Gospel is confirmed when preached in the world rather than in the church.

Frankly I believe that cessationism was conceived to account for lack of evidence of God's power in the Church - when the reasons for the lack of same, were never addressed.

In my small way I have stepped out in obedience and prayed for folks in the world and seen Him heal. I have medical evidence to prove it.

The harvest is ripe but the workers are very few.
I definitely believe that part of the question hinges on a person's walk with the Lord. Sticking strictly with scripture, not delving into non-biblical texts, what did the men in scripture have in common who are recorded as working miracles and healings?

They were all believers (DUH)
They were all obedient to their commission.
They were all close in fellowship to the Lord.

I think that last one is truly the one that gets missed. Not really striking an accusatory tone here, but do people really put in the time it takes to cultivate their relationship with the Lord? What does that look like even? Perhaps giving up that movie to read the scriptures and pray? Saying no to the fleshly desires the world offers (no matter how innocent) and saying yes to the Spirit?

I was praying the other day and I believe I heard the Spirit tell me, "You are either sowing to the Spirit or sowing to the flesh." And perhaps that has something to do here. The lack of healings and miracles could perhaps be because God's children aren't close to Him.

I don't know honestly, just a possibility I suppose.
 
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jiminpa

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God says He healed us at the cross. We can believe Him or not believe Him. We can believe Him or consider call Him a liar with in our hearts while claiming to trust Him with our lips. It really is that simple.

...and, yes, I have 3 fingers pointing back at myself, and I'm working through repenting of deep-seated, religious, unbelief.
 
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jiminpa

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I definitely believe that part of the question hinges on a person's walk with the Lord. Sticking strictly with scripture, not delving into non-biblical texts, what did the men in scripture have in common who are recorded as working miracles and healings?

They were all believers (DUH)
They were all obedient to their commission.
They were all close in fellowship to the Lord.

I think that last one is truly the one that gets missed. Not really striking an accusatory tone here, but do people really put in the time it takes to cultivate their relationship with the Lord? What does that look like even? Perhaps giving up that movie to read the scriptures and pray? Saying no to the fleshly desires the world offers (no matter how innocent) and saying yes to the Spirit?

I was praying the other day and I believe I heard the Spirit tell me, "You are either sowing to the Spirit or sowing to the flesh." And perhaps that has something to do here. The lack of healings and miracles could perhaps be because God's children aren't close to Him.

I don't know honestly, just a possibility I suppose.
I think you are addressing the elephant in the room here. We want both God and the world, and the world is so much easier. As you said, sometimes the distraction is innocent, and maybe perfectly fine on occasion, but it's so easy to overindulge in the distractions, until we are just distracted and not really in fellowship with Him.
 
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jiminpa

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Maybe because the Church is generally disempowered and distracted from the great commission?

Maybe because the Gospel is confirmed when preached in the world rather than in the church.

Frankly I believe that cessationism was conceived to account for lack of evidence of God's power in the Church - when the reasons for the lack of same, were never addressed.

In my small way I have stepped out in obedience and prayed for folks in the world and seen Him heal. I have medical evidence to prove it.

The harvest is ripe but the workers are very few.
I agree.

I also question why some of us who claim to believe in Jesus are demanding incontrovertible proof that He does what He says He will do, and I agree that such unbelief is the heart of the reason we don't experience His truth, (which is consistent with His teachings when He walked the Earth in bodily form). The very people who are creating the problem are citing the results of their own teachings against those willing to believe Him.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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God says He healed us at the cross. We can believe Him or not believe Him. We can believe Him or consider call Him a liar with in our hearts while claiming to trust Him with our lips. It really is that simple.

...and, yes, I have 3 fingers pointing back at myself, and I'm working through repenting of deep-seated, religious, unbelief.
I too agree with this.
We should never contradict God... even to our hurt. Even if it means we question our own integrity.
God says He forgives all our inequities and heals all our diseases.
This I will believe and pray He gives me strength in this faith until the end.
 
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jiminpa

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I too agree with this.
We should never contradict God... even to our hurt. Even if it means we question our own integrity.
God says He forgives all our inequities and heals all our diseases.
This I will believe and pray He gives me strength in this faith until the end.
I was praying for a family member with declining health, and thinking about having prayed for her but believing the bad reports. I asked God, "who will believe?" You can guess what He said. So, I'm repenting of my unbelief, for her and in general.

BTW, she's younger than I am, and I used to have the worst grudge against her. It took me years to repent of my bitterness toward her, and now I'm upset that I'm not really believing for her healing when she needs someone to.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I was praying for a family member with declining health, and thinking about having prayed for her but believing the bad reports. I asked God, "who will believe?" You can guess what He said. So, I'm repenting of my unbelief, for her and in general.

BTW, she's younger than I am, and I used to have the worst grudge against her. It took me years to repent of my bitterness toward her, and now I'm upset that I'm not really believing for her healing when she needs someone to.
I understand and feel for you saint. We live in a world of darkness and always remember we are but dust and grass. He knows our frame. He has pity on us in our weakness. I always tell Him He is our only hope. In this life and the next. I pray I do not expose Him to shame because of my failures. Ultimately I know He is love incarnate...
As for faith. I let the word believe for me. I ask myself "Is this word true even if I do not believe?" And of course it is. So I let it believe for me. His word cannot fail, it is true even when I cannot find strength. When I cannot find it in me I remember that He is true and I am a liar in my weakness. But it is not unbelief. It is doubt. Unbelief is rebellion... it it denying His word. Doubt is merely my being too weak to hold on. And that is when I let the Word believe for me. He cannot lie. He is always true. So when I fail, I just tell the Lord I am standing on His word despite my weakness.
He will never let me down, even if I fail Him. Be strong saint...
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I have this in my video list and return to it again and again. Bless the Lord Oh My Soul!!!

Psalms 103:1-22 KJV
1. A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3. Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4. Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5. Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
6. The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
7. He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
8. The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10. He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13. Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14. For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15. As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16. For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.

17. But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18. To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
19. The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
20. Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21. Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22. Bless the LORD, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the LORD, O my soul.

Bless the Lord Bless the Bless the Lord Oh my Soul!!!
 
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Who says any of that on that stage is from GOD?

I wouldn't.

Read up Maria Woodworth Etter some Oscarr. She was an evangelist here in America and had an amazing healing anointing for 45 years or more. Testimonies from numerous people who received healing through her ministry are all in her books.

Pay attention to the old saints, not the recent ones who came on the scene with all this flamboyancy that had nothing to do with scripture.
I agree about the lack of real Holy Spirit power on the Benny Hinn stage and the other prominent Word Faith preachers.

I have Maria woodworth Etter's book, and loved reading every bit of it. She certainly had a remarkable ministry. It is interesting that she lost 5 of her six children through sickness and was what started her really seeking God for the answer. It is also interesting that those who had powerful ministry went through intense personal suffering in their lives. Kathryn Kuhlman is another example of someone experiencing distressing personal issues that no doubt caused her to seek the Lord in a way that others who didn't go through the same.

I think that those who feel free to criticise women like her, and others like Oral Roberts (who was healed of terminal TB) have made very superficial research on these people, and have never read their biographies. As a matter of interest, I have come to think that the lack of medical evidence for many of the healings through Mrs Woodworth Etter, Kathryn Kuhlman and Oral Roberts, was because believers had no confidence in the medical profession, and many believed it was a sin to consult a doctor.

Paul was no exception. He went through intense suffering and paid an enormous personal price to have the ministry he had. There are many who would love to emulate these ministries, but are not willing to go through the same suffering. It is no wonder that they fall short.

I have a friend in the 1960s named Walter Cantrell, who was Smith Wigglesworth's pianist for his 1922 and 1927 New Zealand meetings. He had many wonderful stories to tell about things that happened during those meetings. When I was in the Wellington AOG there was a woman in her 90s who spoke about Smith Wigglesworth as if it was yesterday for her. These were people who were there and saw things first hand. Quite different to more modern critics who read some newspaper clippings of articles written by unconverted reporters who have never spoken to any of the eye witnesses. If anyone told Walter Cantrell that Smith Wigglesworth was a fake, he would laugh that person right out the door! And if any said the same to the 90 year old, she would immediately show them the door!

Todd Bentley is an idiot who found out some questionable stuff about Smith Wigglesworth hitting people and kicking a baby across the stage. He heard about those things as the result of Chinese whispers, and had never read what Wigglesworth himself said about those events. He never threw that baby off the stage, The baby slid across the stage and was totally healed and was not at all hurt by the episode. He never punched people really hard to cause further injury, and many were instantly healed. Bentley hits and kicks people who don't get healed. That is the difference.

So I don't go by much what modern critics say about these old saints, because the saints are not here to defend themselves. I don't believe that any of those whom I mentioned here would lie about these things, so I give them the benefit of the doubt.

It is interesting that when he died, Oral Roberts did not have a big bank account, and he lived in an ordinary condo like everyone else. Of course his critics tend to miss that important bit of information.

Anyway, that is my response to your post. Cheers.
 
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I understand and feel for you saint. We live in a world of darkness and always remember we are but dust and grass. He knows our frame. He has pity on us in our weakness. I always tell Him He is our only hope. In this life and the next. I pray I do not expose Him to shame because of my failures. Ultimately I know He is love incarnate...
As for faith. I let the word believe for me. I ask myself "Is this word true even if I do not believe?" And of course it is. So I let it believe for me. His word cannot fail, it is true even when I cannot find strength. When I cannot find it in me I remember that He is true and I am a liar in my weakness. But it is not unbelief. It is doubt. Unbelief is rebellion... it it denying His word. Doubt is merely my being too weak to hold on. And that is when I let the Word believe for me. He cannot lie. He is always true. So when I fail, I just tell the Lord I am standing on His word despite my weakness.
He will never let me down, even if I fail Him. Be strong saint...
What we have to understand is that if someone doesn't get healed in spite of our faith or the faith of the sick person, it is not anyone's fault. When we understand the sovereignty of God, we are able to stop the blame game. God has been quite clear in what He said, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and withhold mercy from those I choose to withhold" (my paraphrase). What this means is that if God decides to heal someone, or decides not to heal them, He is totally righteous in HIs choice. The principle is that the clay cannot tell the potter what to do. Job had the right idea. He said, "The Lord has done this, praise be to the Lord." He also said, "The Lord has given and the Lord has taken away." What this means to us is that it is the Lord who gives health, and it is He who takes it away, and there is nothing we can do about except to trust that He is righteous in all He does. We don't even have the right for Him to give us a reason for His decision.

Jesus healed many without requiring faith on their part. If they had enough faith in Him to cry out and request healing, that was good enough for Him. It is interesting that the lame man at the pool of Bethesda was in a pagan temple looking for healing from a pagan source. This is why Jesus asked him, "Do you really want to be healed?" On other words, "Do you want Me to heal you, or are you going to continue to trust in the pagan god in this temple?" When the lame man turned to Jesus, He said, "Take up your bed and walk", and the man instantly obeyed and was healed. The reason why all the other sick people were not healed there was because they continued to trust in the pagan god of the temple to heal them.

This is the problem with ministries like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and Andrew Wommack. People are trusting in those men to get them healed instead of Jesus Himself. This is shown in the multitudes of people who travel great distances to get to the meetings in the hope that the great men would get them healed. The reason why they don't get healed is that they are trusting the creature rather than the creator. It is presumption and not true faith to believe that one can be healed by travelling to a healing evangelist who might have that special gift of healing.

It is the same with someone depending on their own faith, or the faith of the preacher to get them healed. That is more akin to New Age humanism, that we have the ability within ourselves to enable healing. They forget that Peter and John said to the crowd, "Why are you looking at us as if we have the power to make this man whole? This man was raised up through the name of Jesus Christ the Son of God." (My paraphrase).

The reason why people are not getting healed in Benny Hinn's, Kenneth Copeland's, Todd White's, and Andrew Wommack's meetings is that these men are coming in their own names and not truly in the name of Jesus Christ. They might give lip service to the name of Jesus, but they are actually taking the Lord's name in vain.
 
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Those are really good questions. I don't have video evidence, but I have seen people receive healing as a result of my prayers. Not multitudes, but a few. That is actually part of the reason for my question.
I think that the bottom line is that if a person testifies that they have been healed, we need to give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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What we have to understand is that if someone doesn't get healed in spite of our faith or the faith of the sick person, it is not anyone's fault. When we understand the sovereignty of God, we are able to stop the blame game.
The only one talking about blame and fault.... is you.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I think you are addressing the elephant in the room here. We want both God and the world, and the world is so much easier. As you said, sometimes the distraction is innocent, and maybe perfectly fine on occasion, but it's so easy to overindulge in the distractions, until we are just distracted and not really in fellowship with Him.
This is something right now my brother and friend that I am desperately trying to sort out with Him. I know I spend way too much time on frivolous and absolutely pointless endeavors to appease my fleshly desires. Part of my apologies thread I started recently actually stems from this. Thankfully, God is willing to journey with me and have patience with my failings.
 
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hislegacy

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Todd Bentley is an idiot who found out some questionable stuff about Smith Wigglesworth hitting people and kicking a baby across the stage. He heard about those things as the result of Chinese whispers, and had never read what Wigglesworth himself said about those events. He never threw that baby off the stage, The baby slid across the stage and was totally healed and was not at all hurt by the episode. He never punched people really hard to cause further injury, and many were instantly healed. Bentley hits and kicks people who don't get healed. That is the difference.
When was the last time Todd Bentley ministered anywhere? Last I was aware - he was dismissed from ministry close to ten years ago.
It is interesting that when he died, Oral Roberts did not have a big bank account, and he lived in an ordinary condo like everyone else. Of course his critics tend to miss that important bit of information.
If you do not consider 117 million a big bank account -

Oral Roberts estimated net worth at the time of his death in the year 2009 was $117 million approximately.

Oral lived in South Tulsa in a three home cul-de-sac that was gated. He owned all three homes.

I own four volumes of stenographers notes and 40 hand written pages of Smith's sermons. I think after reading many of them, I could honestly say he would not be welcome in very many churches today.

That being said, it is some of the most powerful Word of Faith style sermons I have ever read.
 
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jiminpa

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When was the last time Todd Bentley ministered anywhere? Last I was aware - he was dismissed from ministry close to ten years ago.

If you do not consider 117 million a big bank account -

Oral Roberts estimated net worth at the time of his death in the year 2009 was $117 million approximately.

Oral lived in South Tulsa in a three home cul-de-sac that was gated. He owned all three homes.

I own four volumes of stenographers notes and 40 hand written pages of Smith's sermons. I think after reading many of them, I could honestly say he would not be welcome in very many churches today.

That being said, it is some of the most powerful Word of Faith style sermons I have ever read.
Those notes sound beyond interesting.
 
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