Did you ever consider? Poor, crazy and demon oppressed preachers.

[Strong in Him]

I try.

I'm sure you do.
You need to love yourself first, though. God does; he says that you're worth dying for, and he wants you to be his child.

 

[Diamond7]

You seem to take Ecclesiastes out of context.

I cut and pasted a scripture from the Bible. You can do whatever you want with the Bible.

For me Solomon is saying that it is a gift from God to enjoy what we have. Some of the most miserable people are rich. Some of the most happy people are poor. My wife gives away as much as 80% of her money. She bought her sister a new car and then she bought her son a car. Of course no one gives me any credit that I pay all the bill and take care of her so she can give them her money. But they take care of her and the husband is to sacrifice himself for his bride. As Jesus sacrificed Himself for the church.

I am reminded that God will provide and we do not have to worry about that. In fact we are told that we can not outgive God. He will give back to use more than we give. It is better to give to those who can not repay us and then we can receive from God. I do have a lot of clutter around here and I am sure I can find people that can use it.

 

[HopeSings]

I'm sure you do.
You need to love yourself first, though. God does; he says that you're worth dying for, and he wants you to be his child.

Pray for me. I see ugly things.

 

[HopeSings]

I cut and pasted a scripture from the Bible. You can do whatever you want with the Bible.

2 corinthians 3:6 "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Paul died daily so there is that.

 

[Strong in Him]

Paul didn't debate like we do.

He debated, explained and defended his new faith to those who didn't believe - exactly what we should be doing.

Please don't compare the debate we see here with Paul's ministry. He wasn't catholic or protestant.

What's that got to do with it? Paul was a Pharisee, well versed in Jewish traditions and in the Scriptures. After he met Jesus, he debated with people why Jesus was the Messiah.
I didn't say anything about Catholics or protestants - they're not the only ones who can debate.

You ask what I meant. I mean that people today would likely reject Paul because he dresses in rags and talks about being tormented by demons. They did in 1 Corinthians chapter 4.

i) we don't know that he dressed in rags.
ii) People rejected Paul because he, an eminent Jew who persecuted those who believed in the Messiah, started arguing with Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.
iii) The Corinthian church were being affected/influenced by Gnosticism. Gnostics believed that those who had special, or inside, knowledge were God's favoured ones. They were mocking Paul - as others did - because a) Paul had not been one of the 12 disciples and b) because they, the Corinthians, believed they were superior to Paul, had greater knowledge, more wealth and so on. Read Chapter 1:18-25. He said that God chose the foolish to shame the wise, the weak to shame the strong and the despised things to nullify those that are not. In chapter 4 Paul talks of all the ways in which they are weak and foolish, compared with the Corinthians' so called strength, to challenge that attitude and the false teaching they have received - i.e. that knowledge, strength and power are good.

 

[Strong in Him]

More debate likely

No; lots of things.
Scripture doesn't teach us about the culture, geography or history of those times. It doesn't teach us Greek or Hebrew. It doesn't tell us what approach we should have to Scripture - i.e. take it all literally, apply it all to ourselves, how to read in context and so on.

I have read many threads on these forums which could have been answered or the problem sorted, if only people had read the particular verses in context or known something of the background of the particular passage.

 

[Strong in Him]

Paul died daily

Obviously not literally.

 

[Strong in Him]

I don't care my friend. I don't need peoples traditions

How do you define "people's traditions"?

 

[Strong in Him]

Money and education is actually the opposite of faith according to Paul. Not that education is evil but it needs to be humble while the lack of education needs to be exalted. Its the same with poverty and wealth. Poverty should be exalted not wealth.

And if everyone was poor, who would there be to help us out of it, provide for us, help us care for our families and so on?

 

[HopeSings]

He debated, explained and defended his new faith to those who didn't believe - exactly what we should be doing.

What's that got to do with it? Paul was a Pharisee, well versed in Jewish traditions and in the Scriptures. After he met Jesus, he debated with people why Jesus was the Messiah.
I didn't say anything about Catholics or protestants - they're not the only ones who can debate.


i) we don't know that he dressed in rags.
ii) People rejected Paul because he, an eminent Jew who persecuted those who believed in the Messiah, started arguing with Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.
iii) The Corinthian church were being affected/influenced by Gnosticism. Gnostics believed that those who had special, or inside, knowledge were God's favoured ones. They were mocking Paul - as others did - because a) Paul had not been one of the 12 disciples and b) because they, the Corinthians, believed they were superior to Paul, had greater knowledge, more wealth and so on. Read Chapter 1:18-25. He said that God chose the foolish to shame the wise, the weak to shame the strong and the despised things to nullify those that are not. In chapter 4 Paul talks of all the ways in which they are weak and foolish, compared with the Corinthians' so called strength, to challenge that attitude and the false teaching they have received - i.e. that knowledge, strength and power are good.

So Paul is a crazy hypocrite who says not to debate but then he does the opposite and debates people. Something is not right with that theory

 

[HopeSings]

And if everyone was poor, who would there be to help us out of it, provide for us, help us care for our families and so on?

Its about equality as in 2 Corinthians 8. If people cant deal with that love then they should as least not justify greed and erring from the faith by desiring and obtaining wealth for ones self. Paul doesn't teach that but the opposite

 

[Strong in Him]

So Paul is a crazy hypocrite who says not to debate but then he does the opposite and debates people. Something is not right with that theory

He didn't say we shouldn't debate.

 

[HopeSings]

How do you define "people's traditions"?

Is it in scripture or at least not against scripture and doesn't hinder unity as one mind and voice? If not then it's useless to me.

 

[HopeSings]

He didn't say we shouldn't debate.

Yes he did. Why would Jesus debate against his own mind? Christ isn't divided

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't even know where I begin or i end anymore. I hate this body. It causes nothing but grief.

You seem to have some very serious issues of self assurance and self confidence.

You have to have some backbone, that comes from confidence.

Without confidence in your abilities to find or understand the truth when you hear it it's difficult to interact in the world as a Christian.

Luke was a physician, Matthew was your local IRS agent, Paul was a religious scholar (a Pharisee) who was also a Roman citizen from a fairly influential family on top of being from the tribe of Benjamin.

The things of God sound like drunk people talking to the ears of people who don't know God, but that doesn't mean you have to be stupid to understand them.

You need to have an innocent heart, one that sees truth, not an ignorant mind. The disciples weren't fools.

Gain some confidence... It's not a sin. You were created in the image of God for the praise of His Glory. That's something to have confidence in and respect for, because He loves you and created you in His image, then He died for you before you were even born in order to reconcile you to Himself.

Have confidence...

 

[HopeSings]

You seem to have some very serious issues of self assurance and self confidence.

You have to have some backbone, that comes from confconfidence.

Or people need to experience the terror that I do and see how strong they are. I appreciate the words but they won't change anything

 

[Hazelelponi]

Or people need to experience the terror that I do and see how strong they are. I appreciate the words but they won't change anything

I've experienced great terror myself, and I factually know I am not strong, though I have yet to bend when the heat is up...

Confidence is necessary.

 

[HopeSings]

0

I've experienced great terror myself, and I factually know I am not strong, though I have yet to bend when the heat is up...

Confidence is necessary.

I'm not sure it's the same thing at all. 1 Corinthians 4 comes to mind. You're strong but im weak. You're wise but I'm a fool. You're honored and I'm despised.

 

[Hazelelponi]

0

I'm not sure it's the same thing at all. 1 Corinthians 4 comes to mind. You're strong but im weak. You're wise but I'm a fool. You're honored and I'm despised.

Ohh... So your being self deprecating because you see yourself as a Paul who is making a point to the flock?

Just being yourself works for most things. We aren't Apostles. Just normal people gathering as fellow believers.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes he did. Why would Jesus debate against his own mind? Christ isn't divided

Never said that he was. ??

I was talking about Paul debating his new faith (Christianity) with Jews and those of other faiths.
Jesus was Jewish but he disagreed with the Pharisees on how they interpreted their own law. He even spoke to a Samaritan woman and said "you don't know who you worship", John 4:22.