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[biblelesson]

Shall I consider everyone who disagrees with me to be the walking dead?

No, because you are not God. People can disagree with you all day long, and you can’t add to their life nor save them.

This is a discussion forum. If you don't care what other people think, what are you doing here?

It's an honest question. I'm not saying you should leave, I'm just asking what your motivations are for being here

When I said who cares what people think, I’m sure you know exactly what I mean.

My statement relates to anyone in a believer’s life who constantly oppose the truth of the Bible. We have to leave those people alone; we can’t worry about what they think over the truth of the Bible.

After we have done what we are suppose to do as servants of Christ, that is, disciple by leading people to the truth of Christ, perform our role as watchmen, then if there is consistent refusal to acknowledge truth, we must do what 2 Timothy 2:23 KJV tells us, and Romans 16:17 KJV.

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV, ”Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”

 

[Leaf473]

No, because you are not God. People can disagree with you all day long, and you can’t add to their life nor save them.

Okay... but how should I regard them? Should I take the approach that if someone disagrees with me they must be deceived?

When I said who cares what people think, I’m sure you know exactly what I mean.

Well, here on a discussion forum, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you here to teach?

My statement relates to anyone in a believer’s life who constantly oppose the truth of the Bible. We have to leave those people alone; we can’t worry about what they think over the truth of the Bible.

After we have done what we are suppose to do as servants of Christ, that is, disciple by leading people to the truth of Christ, perform our role as watchmen, then if there is consistent refusal to acknowledge truth, we must do what 2 Timothy 2:23 KJV tells us, and Romans 16:17 KJV.

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV, ”Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”

I'm interested to see how you put that into practice here in this forum

 

[daq]

I have not made an error. I understand the scripture. Jesus is saying your mother, father, sister, brother can lead you away from Him. This is being done every day in all cultures. The Bible tells us to honor our mother and father, so when Jesus say you must hate your mother and father, He is not telling us to hate with extreme anger or dislike; disgust or contempt. Jesus is saying turn away from the love of family that keeps people bound to the point of rejecting Him.

What scripture are you referring to? Because Luke 14:26-27 KJV is speaking of family influence. Father in the verse is not relating to the devil, nor is mother relating to mother of harlots.

Before coming to Christ, we all were lost in the world, Ephesians 2:2-3 KJV. Paul is saying we were all children of wrath. So while under the influence of the world, what would be the reason for Jesus command?

Jesus’s command relates to our coming to Christ and the strong persuasion not to follow Him. This is where Ephesians 6:12 KJV comes in, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

In consideration of family: There is spiritual wickedness, principalities in high places, and rulers of darkness behind those who oppose Jesus. It’s the spirit of anti-Christ. We must look past our loved ones; look past flesh and blood, and understand they are being influenced. But some are not able to see this. I know of situations where new believers suffered from extreme guilt because their family members disapproved of their becoming a Christian. They were afraid of being rejected. This is what Jesus is speaking of. Love them not to the point of rejecting Him.

Matthew 10:34-39 (Luke 12:51-53)
34 Think not that I am come to bring peace upon earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to sever [G1369 διχαζω] a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household [Micah 7:6 referencing Deut 13:6].
37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And the one not taking up his stake, and following after me, is not worthy of me.
39 The one finding his soul shall destroy it: and the one destroying his soul for my sake shall find it.

Luke 12:51-53 KJV
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Understand that you are the house.

Luke 11:17-26 KJV
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Understand that you are the house, and the unclean spirit is the prince of the power of the air, (Dan 8:5, Eph 2:2-3), and the spirit of the world, (John 2:24-25,1 Cor 2:11-12, 1 John 2:18-19).

 

[biblelesson]

Matthew 10:34-39 (Luke 12:51-53)
34 Think not that I am come to bring peace upon earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to sever [G1369 διχαζω] a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household [Micah 7:6 referencing Deut 13:6].
37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And the one not taking up his stake, and following after me, is not worthy of me.
39 The one finding his soul shall destroy it: and the one destroying his soul for my sake shall find it.

Luke 12:51-53 KJV
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Understand that you are the house.

Luke 11:17-26 KJV
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Understand that you are the house, and the unclean spirit is the prince of the power of the air, (Dan 8:5, Eph 2:2-3), and the spirit of the world, (John 2:24-25,1 Cor 2:11-12, 1 John 2:18-19).

I see your interpretation of both scriptures is incorrect.

 

[daq]

I see your interpretation of both scriptures is incorrect.

The Master is actually expounding the Torah.
It is truly unfortunate that paradigm kings prevent their subjects from believing him.

 

[biblelesson]

Matthew 10:34-39 (Luke 12:51-53)
34 Think not that I am come to bring peace upon earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to sever [G1369 διχαζω] a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household [Micah 7:6 referencing Deut 13:6].
37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And the one not taking up his stake, and following after me, is not worthy of me.
39 The one finding his soul shall destroy it: and the one destroying his soul for my sake shall find it.

Luke 12:51-53 KJV
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Understand that you are the house.

Luke 11:17-26 KJV
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Understand that you are the house, and the unclean spirit is the prince of the power of the air, (Dan 8:5, Eph 2:2-3), and the spirit of the world, (John 2:24-25,1 Cor 2:11-12, 1 John 2:18-19).

The Master is actually expounding the Torah.
It is truly unfortunate that paradigm kings prevent their subjects from believing him.

The first scripture was Luke 14:26-27 KJV. Basically a command not to love family more than Jesus, which does relate to Luke 12:51-53 KJV, Matthew 10:34 KJV, Micah 7:6 KJV, and Deuteronomy 13:6 KJV.

But how do these scriptures relate to Luke 11:17-26 KJV, when the issue involved Jesus casting out a dumb spirit, Luke 11:14 KJV, and was accused of casting out the devil through the chief of devils.

Jesus was casting out an evil spirit and told them Satan would not cast out Satan because he would in fact be divided against himself. So, how does that relate to our decision to be obedient to Christ and not let ourselves be influenced by divisions - in our family? Where does the casting out happen in that situation?

 

[daq]

The first scripture was Luke 14:26-27 KJV. Basically a command not to love family more than Jesus, which does relate to Luke 12:51-53 KJV, Matthew 10:34 KJV, Micah 7:6 KJV, and Deuteronomy 13:6 KJV.

But how do these scriptures relate to Luke 11:17-26 KJV, when the issue involved Jesus casting out a dumb spirit, Luke 11:14 KJV, and was accused to casting out the devil through the chief of devils.

Jesus was casting out an evil spirit. How does that relate to our decision to be obedient to Christ and not let ourselves be influenced by divisions - in our family? Where does the casting out happen in that situation?

Where did the following happen in your own experience?

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Do you realize where Ephesus was located? It was in Yavan, that is, Greece:

Take a close look at the seven assemblies to which Paul writes: the only one not in Yavan is Romans.

Yavan:

Daniel 8:5 KJV
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: [prince of the power of the air] and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Daniel 8:18-21
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: [Yavan] and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Daniel 10:18-21 KJV
18 Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia [Yavan] shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

The Master expounds the Torah and Prophets and Paul preaches the commandments of the Master, (1 Cor 14:37).

 

[biblelesson]

Where did the following happen in your own experience?

Ephesians 2:1-3 KJV
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Do you realize where Ephesus was located? It was in Yavan, that is, Greece:

View attachment 338693

Take a close look at the seven assemblies to which Paul writes: the only one not in Yavan is Romans.

Yavan:

Daniel 8:5 KJV
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: [prince of the power of the air] and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Daniel 8:18-21
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: [Yavan] and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Daniel 10:18-21 KJV
18 Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
19 And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia [Yavan] shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

The Master expounds the Torah and Prophets and Paul preaches the commandments of the Master, (1 Cor 14:37).

What exactly are you saying? Can you give an explanation of how you are relating these end time scriptures to Luke 14:26-27 KJV

Also, how does these scriptures relate to the Christian who has been saved from the world by grace in Jesus Christ, who has been sealed, and where the gates of hell cannot prevail, Matthew 16:18 KJV

 

[daq]

What exactly are you saying? Can you give an explanation of how you are relating these end time scriptures to Luke 14:26-27 KJV

Also, how does these scriptures relate to the Christian who has been saved from the world by grace in Jesus Christ, who has been sealed, and where the gates of hell cannot prevail, Matthew 16:18 KJV

It really is this simple:

1) From the very beginning sin is personified, (Gen 3:1, Gen 4:7).
2) Sin dwells in the flesh, (Rom 7:17-18).

Matthew 5:29-30 KJV
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Romans 7:16-25 KJV
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:12-13 KJV
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Colossians 3:5-7 KJV
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: [Eph 2:2]
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them [Eph 2:3].

Understand that you are likened to a house, (same as a temple: the temple of Elohim).
And these "members" are likened to the members of your household, (Mat 10:36, Mic 7:5-6, Deut 13:6-9).

 

[biblelesson]

It really is this simple:

1) From the very beginning sin is personified, (Gen 3:1, Gen 4:7).
2) Sin dwells in the flesh, (Rom 7:17-18).

Matthew 5:29-30 KJV
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Romans 7:16-25 KJV
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:12-13 KJV
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Colossians 3:5-7 KJV
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: [Eph 2:2]
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them [Eph 2:3].

Understand that you are likened to a house, (same as a temple: the temple of Elohim).
And these "members" are likened to the members of your household, (Mat 10:36, Mic 7:5-6, Deut 13:6-9).

Thanks for breaking it down!

 

[daq]

Thanks for breaking it down!

My pleasure. Perhaps then I will end with this:

Matthew 7:12 KJV
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, are you saying that the Mother of All Prostitutes is the Church, the body of Christ?

Brother, the mother of all prostitutes, is the disobedient church that follows a human king when God never wanted a human king over His people, because humans can't do the job, as evidenced in Israel's kings when they rejected God as their king.

But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.” (1 Samuel 8:6-9 NIV)​

They were the church established by the apostles when Jesus walked the earth and the people of God were under Roman occupation until the Emperor of Rome entered the church but delayed his baptism until just before his death, because he realized there was conflict in following God's word and being emperor of Rome. His influence corrupted the leadership that led to the establishment of a human king over this church that abandoned the truth in the guaranteed word of God by the prophets under their human king, just as happened with the human kings of Israel.

Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds. Do to her as she has done to others. Double her penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so brew twice as much for her. She glorified herself and lived in luxury, so match it now with torment and sorrow. She boasted in her heart, ‘I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow, and I have no reason to mourn.’ Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day—death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty. (Revelation 18:4-8 NLT)​

Now there are many churches that are daughters of that mother church "who reject the truth and chase after myths" and God's people are those that would obey the prophets if they had all the truths that their churches continued to keep from them until they began to search through the scriptures for the truth, and the Holy Spirit helps confirm the truths they have found in the guaranteed word of God by the prophets so they can defend these truths from the scriptures.

I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he comes to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching. For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths. (2 Timothy 4:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Doesn't it make sense that the Spirit would share the same truths with devout Christians?

Brother, no, the Holy Spirit will not again tell you personally the truths He has already shared for all to know from the guaranteed word of God by the prophets. The Holy Spirit helps to confirm the truths that you find in the word of God so that you are prepared to share these truths from the scriptures. I have found evidence in the use of the Greek word for "faith" that God is working against those that are unwilling to obey the previous Ten Commandments. Those unwilling to turn to the original Hebrew to learn that the word "pistis" in the Greek New Testament is ambiguous between two different words in Hebrew: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith". Giving those who do not want to obey the Ten Commandments an excuse of "belief" being thought as "faith" that saves without works in the Greek New Testament for God to condemn them for "enjoying evil rather than believing the truth". A truth that has been shared from the beginning to obey God's recent Eleven Commandments that give us mastery over sin.

This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NLT)​

We are saved by "faith", which does all of God's given works of "righteousness", and not by "belief" alone.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith/belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by faith/belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, the mother of all prostitutes, is the disobedient church that follows a human king when God never wanted a human king over His people, because humans can't do the job, as evidenced in Israel's kings when they rejected God as their king.

But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.” (1 Samuel 8:6-9 NIV)​

They were the church established by the apostles when Jesus walked the earth and the people of God were under Roman occupation until the Emperor of Rome entered the church but delayed his baptism until just before his death, because he realized there was conflict in following God's word and being emperor of Rome. His influence corrupted the leadership that led to the establishment of a human king over this church that abandoned the truth in the guaranteed word of God by the prophets under their human king, just as happened with the human kings of Israel.

Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds. Do to her as she has done to others. Double her penalty for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so brew twice as much for her. She glorified herself and lived in luxury, so match it now with torment and sorrow. She boasted in her heart, ‘I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow, and I have no reason to mourn.’ Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day—death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty. (Revelation 18:4-8 NLT)​

Now there are many churches that are daughters of that mother church "who reject the truth and chase after myths" and God's people are those that would obey the prophets if they had all the truths that their churches continued to keep from them until they began to search through the scriptures for the truth, and the Holy Spirit helps confirm the truths they have found in the guaranteed word of God by the prophets so they can defend these truths from the scriptures.

I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he comes to set up his Kingdom: Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching. For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths. (2 Timothy 4:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, are you saying that the one body is the mother of all prostitutes, the disobedient church?

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:4-5 - New American Standard Bible

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, no, the Holy Spirit will not again tell you personally the truths He has already shared for all to know from the guaranteed word of God by the prophets. The Holy Spirit helps to confirm the truths that you find in the word of God so that you are prepared to share these truths from the scriptures.

Okay... Does it make sense that the Holy Spirit will confirm to devout Christians the same truths that they find in the word of God?

I have found evidence in the use of the Greek word for "faith" that God is working against those that are unwilling to obey the previous Ten Commandments. Those unwilling to turn to the original Hebrew to learn that the word "pistis" in the Greek New Testament is ambiguous between two different words in Hebrew: the verb "belief" and the noun "faith". Giving those who do not want to obey the Ten Commandments an excuse of "belief" being thought as "faith" that saves without works in the Greek New Testament for God to condemn them for "enjoying evil rather than believing the truth". A truth that has been shared from the beginning to obey God's recent Eleven Commandments that give us mastery over sin.

This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NLT)​

We are saved by "faith", which does all of God's given works of "righteousness", and not by "belief" alone.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith/belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by faith/belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Gary K]

Okay... Does it make sense that the Holy Spirit will confirm to devout Christians the same truths that they find in the word of God?

How do you figure the HS will confirm opposite conclusions from the same scriptures? One side or the other is working against God.

 

[Leaf473]

How do you figure the HS will confirm opposite conclusions from the same scriptures?

I don't figure that. But I was asking @guevaraj if he thought the same thing.

If the Holy Spirit is telling devout Christians the same thing, then it makes sense to look throughout history to see what devout Christians have thought the Bible teaches.

It makes sense to me, then, that the church really is the pillar and ground of the truth.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3:15 - New Living Translation

so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

www.biblegateway.com

One side or the other is working against God.

 

[Gary K]

I don't figure that. But I was asking @guevaraj if he thought the same thing.

If the Holy Spirit is telling devout Christians the same thing, then it makes sense to look throughout history to see what devout Christians have thought the Bible teaches.

It makes sense to me, then, that the church really is the pillar and ground of the truth.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 3:15 - New Living Translation

so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

www.biblegateway.com

But if your idea is that the most popular beliefs are true what do you do with all the conflicting evidence down through time? Only 8 people were saved from the flood. The Israelites apostatized again and again. Read Hebrews 11 to see how badly. And how about all the persecution and deaths post Biblical times?

I don't know if you've read Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy by Eric Metaxas but he tells the story of how the Nazis executed Deitrich Bonhoeffer at the end of WW2. He was the leader of the section of what was called the Confessing Church part of Lutheranism. It grew out of a rejection of German theologians who started the God is dead movement as it was a part of government back then. It was a state sponsored church. And that grew out of the French revolution where they deified the Goddess of Reason. We still see the effects od that today in a NT Bible version called the Twenties Century Version. It teaches nothing but socialism and the group who edited it believe things like Jesus was a Jewish comic who wandered around Palestine performing comedy shows. They hold beliefs such as when Jesus died His body was thrown into an alley and eaten by dogs. Purely Satanic stuff like that.

Look also at the beginnings of the Christian movement. It was so unpopular they murdered Jesus. It's always been that way. God moved Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees because paganism was becoming so strong there that Abram's faith would have become corrupted too.

 

[Leaf473]

But if your idea is that the most popular beliefs are true what do you do with all the conflicting evidence down through time?

I didn't say the most popular beliefs

Only 8 people were saved from the flood. The Israelites apostatized again and again. Read Hebrews 11 to see how badly. And how about all the persecution and deaths post Biblical times?

I don't know if you've read Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy by Eric Metaxas but he tells the story of how the Nazis executed Deitrich Bonhoeffer at the end of WW2. He was the leader of the section of what was called the Confessing Church part of Lutheranism. It grew out of a rejection of German theologians who started the God is dead movement as it was a part of government back then. It was a state sponsored church. And that grew out of the French revolution where they deified the Goddess of Reason. We still see the effects od that today in a NT Bible version called the Twenties Century Version. It teaches nothing but socialism and the group who edited it believe things like Jesus was a Jewish comic who wandered around Palestine performing comedy shows. They hold beliefs such as when Jesus died His body was thrown into an alley and eaten by dogs. Purely Satanic stuff like that.

Look also at the beginnings of the Christian movement. It was so unpopular they murdered Jesus. It's always been that way. God moved Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees because paganism was becoming so strong there that Abram's faith would have become corrupted too.

 

[Gary K]

I didn't say the most popular beliefs

If you noticed I said if your idea is.