Creationism vs. Everything

[driewerf]

The creation vs Evolution debate which seems to rage everywhere is badly defined. It should really be the creation vs everything in the real world debate. Astronomy, Cosmology, Geography, archaeology, philosophy, geology, History, Psychology, Biology, Evolution, and reason. Just look up at night, or look at the sea on a clear day, or the life teeming in a clod of earth, and you will see obvious reasons why creationism is just plain wrong.


Now, can we have some sort of debate.

I think meteorology is the single sience that is not under their fire. The way of predicting the weather of tomorrow still fits into teh biblical narrowness.

 

[driewerf]

So now we chage the htpothesis to fit the theory. It doesn't matter if it came from some other form of energy, it all started somewhere at sometime by something or someone of very great power.

No, the hypotheses has never been changed. The very first time the Big bang theory was formulated (by a Belgian catholic priest!) he used the words "cosmic egg". But he never said "nothing".

 

[Spacewyrm]

driewerf, this thread is from 3 years ago. You're arguing with ghosts.

 

[mpok1519]

Do you belive in science? If yes, and it sounds like you do, then you must belive in physics. In this there is a UNIVERSAL law (ie throughout the universe, no exceptions) called the First law of Thermodynamics. This law has been proven by many time and time again, we even did it in High school science calsses to a lesser extent. The first law states that "matter (energy) can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another." Now that this has been established, the big bang theory is just plain dumb. It makes no sense. It basically states that "nothing" exploded into "everything." It breaks the law and is clearly not true. In order for the universe to form something or someone of greater power had to create it, it came from that greater power. As a christian, I believe that that person is God the Father. He not only created the universe but put (scientific) law and order in it. Some like to argue that the universe is a chaotic system and you can't have ordered chaos, but if you do a little research, you will find that scientists are discovering that the universe is much more ordered that first expected.

Chaos and order are misnomers in the scientific world; what human brands of emotionalism that are attached to these concepts and how they are applied to universal law don't really fit what we call "chaos". Entropic processes aren't chaotic, buy orderly. The same can be said for order; order is just chaos in an alternative form. The processes of how things build and synthesize as well as break down and decay are integral processes to the universe; how we attach human emotionalism as a case or a creator makes false assumptions.

Big bang theory doesn't specify everything came from nothing; imagine a constantly expanding and contracting universe, where big bangs never cease happening forever, endlessly, with no end, and no beginning. This fits the laws
of theormodynamics.

 

[Flatland]

Do you belive in science? If yes, and it sounds like you do, then you must belive in physics. In this there is a UNIVERSAL law (ie throughout the universe, no exceptions) called the First law of Thermodynamics. This law has been proven by many time and time again, we even did it in High school science calsses to a lesser extent. The first law states that "matter (energy) can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another." Now that this has been established, the big bang theory is just plain dumb. It makes no sense. It basically states that "nothing" exploded into "everything." It breaks the law and is clearly not true. In order for the universe to form something or someone of greater power had to create it, it came from that greater power. As a christian, I believe that that person is God the Father. He not only created the universe but put (scientific) law and order in it. Some like to argue that the universe is a chaotic system and you can't have ordered chaos, but if you do a little research, you will find that scientists are discovering that the universe is much more ordered that first expected.

1st of all the big Bang didn't explode from nothing. This is just your typical creationist strawman

2nd of all, you start off by saying that matter can't be created nor destroyed but then you go on to say that your invisible friend (god) can create matter. Contradiction much? So can matter be created or can not be created? You can't even make up your mind lmao

 

[lucaspa]

Same difference really. something or Someone had to be more powerful that the universe they created, according to the laws of science, which cannot be discarded for just because they don't fit. The question then is WHO?

It's not the same difference. Big Bang states that our universe started as an infinitely small and infinitely hot point of spacetime. Big Bang is the origin of matter/energy, space, and time.

Now, the origin of the universe does not need to be "more powerful" than the universe. Just capable of creating the universe. And actually the "laws of science" at least so far as Relativity is concerned do not apply at the Big Bang!

So the question is not "or WHO?" but also "Or WHAT?" And that is where there are at least 4 other candidates besides God as the origin of the universe. They are all "whats".

 

[Delphiki]

I like how creationists will point out the first law of thermodynamics when it's their model, not the big bang, that has everything being created from nothing.