Creation

[FaithT]

When I was going to the LCMS church nearby I had a lot of questions for my pastor, many of which weren’t answered to my satisfaction. One question was about creation. During a meeting with my then-pastor he turned the tables on me and asked what I believe happened. I said that I believed God caused the Big Bang and evolution occurred guided by God. I’m paraphrasing here, but that is my belief.

The LCMS reject evolution and they believe the same as what I’d heard on a video on Creation.com. They believe what the Bible says, literally. Man was created, fully formed, as was the Universe. They say there are only two possibilities……that God created everything fully formed like the Bible says, or there was a Big Bang and we and the Universe evolved without God, which they reject.

Why do so many people reject the third option…..that God caused the Big Bang and evolution did occur under God’s guidance? From conversations I’ve had with priests and things I’ve read on Catholic Answers, the third option is acceptable for a Catholic to believe. It is, isn’t it?
I will say in defense of the LCMS that they do accept microevolution, I think, just not macroevolution.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I don't believe in evolution myself. Seems like we'd still be evolving if that were the case. But, with the big bang, God said "let there be light"--that could be how everything started, with a burst of light.

 

[FaithT]

I don't believe in evolution myself. Seems like we'd still be evolving if that were the case. But, with the big bang, God said "let there be light"--that could be how everything started, with a burst of light.

The part you posted about the Big Bang makes sense and I agree with.

 

[Michie]

When I was going to the LCMS church nearby I had a lot of questions for my pastor, many of which weren’t answered to my satisfaction. One question was about creation. During a meeting with my then-pastor he turned the tables on me and asked what I believe happened. I said that I believed God caused the Big Bang and evolution occurred guided by God. I’m paraphrasing here, but that is my belief.

The LCMS reject evolution and they believe the same as what I’d heard on a video on Creation.com. They believe what the Bible says, literally. Man was created, fully formed, as was the Universe. They say there are only two possibilities……that God created everything fully formed like the Bible says, or there was a Big Bang and we and the Universe evolved without God, which they reject.

Why do so many people reject the third option…..that God caused the Big Bang and evolution did occur under God’s guidance? From conversations I’ve had with priests and things I’ve read on Catholic Answers, the third option is acceptable for a Catholic to believe. It is, isn’t it?
I will say in defense of the LCMS that they do accept microevolution, I think, just not macroevolution.

When I was going to the LCMS church nearby I had a lot of questions for my pastor, many of which weren’t answered to my satisfaction. One question was about creation. During a meeting with my then-pastor he turned the tables on me and asked what I believe happened. I said that I believed God caused the Big Bang and evolution occurred guided by God. I’m paraphrasing here, but that is my belief.

The LCMS reject evolution and they believe the same as what I’d heard on a video on Creation.com. They believe what the Bible says, literally. Man was created, fully formed, as was the Universe. They say there are only two possibilities……that God created everything fully formed like the Bible says, or there was a Big Bang and we and the Universe evolved without God, which they reject.

Why do so many people reject the third option…..that God caused the Big Bang and evolution did occur under God’s guidance? From conversations I’ve had with priests and things I’ve read on Catholic Answers, the third option is acceptable for a Catholic to believe. It is, isn’t it?
I will say in defense of the LCMS that they do accept microevolution, I think, just not macroevolution.

People can believe what they want. That’s always been the case. The hows and when’s are up to us as far as Catholicism goes.

There is only this:

Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his creation, that Adam and Eve were real people, and that all humans, whether specially created or evolved, have and have always had specially created souls for each individual.

Creation

Creation (Lat. creatio).—I. DEFINITION.—Like other words of the same ending, the term creation signifies both an action and the object or effect thereof. Thus,...

www.catholic.com

 

[FaithT]

People believe what they want. That’s always been the case. The hows and when’s are up to us as far as Catholicism goes.

There is only this:

Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his creation, that Adam and Eve were real people, and that all humans, whether specially created or evolved, have and have always had specially created souls for each individual.

Creation

Creation (Lat. creatio).—I. DEFINITION.—Like other words of the same ending, the term creation signifies both an action and the object or effect thereof. Thus,...

www.catholic.com

You meant to say that people can believe what they want, right?

 

[Michie]

You meant to say that people can believe what they want, right?

Yes.

What the Early Church Believed: Creation and Genesis

Fundamentalists claim that—until recently— the only acceptable view of Genesis was that the earth was created in six days, but this was not always the case.

www.catholic.com

 

[FaithT]

Yes.

What the Early Church Believed: Creation and Genesis

Fundamentalists claim that—until recently— the only acceptable view of Genesis was that the earth was created in six days, but this was not always the case.

www.catholic.com

Thought so…..and what you posted is one of the things I love about Catholicism.

 

[Michie]

Thought so…..and what you posted is one of the things I love about Catholicism.

Glad to help dig up the info for you.

 

[RileyG]

God created everything and used the creation story to convey a deeper meaning. Based on all evidence, evolution occurred.

 

[FaithT]

God created everything and used the creation story to convey a deeper meaning. Based on all evidence, evolution occurred.

The LCMSs rejection of evolution as well as their belief that the universe is only 6000 years old really, really bothered me. Now I’m worried about my husband. He started going to church there with me when I belonged and even bought himself a Bible. I told him that I’d still go with him to church occasionally, as well as Mass….two services in one weekend, I just can’t take Communion. But he’s only gone to church once or twice since I stopped attending the LCMS. He recently said that it’s not his church, that he was going there because I went there. And he has no desire to become Catholic.

 

[RileyG]

The LCMSs rejection of evolution as well as their belief that the universe is only 6000 years old really, really bothered me. Now I’m worried about my husband. He started going to church there with me when I belonged and even bought himself a Bible. I told him that I’d still go with him to church occasionally, as well as Mass….two services in one weekend, I just can’t take Communion. But he’s only gone to church once or twice since I stopped attending the LCMS. He recently said that it’s not his church, that he was going there because I went there. And he has no desire to become Catholic.

Keeping you in prayer.

 

[FaithT]

Keeping you in prayer.

Thanks.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I am one of those third-option believers. God created the universe billions of years ago, and eventually used evolution to bring about "earth man" from the beasts and then "spirit man" in the garden of Eden.

 

[Job 33:6]

When I was going to the LCMS church nearby I had a lot of questions for my pastor, many of which weren’t answered to my satisfaction. One question was about creation. During a meeting with my then-pastor he turned the tables on me and asked what I believe happened. I said that I believed God caused the Big Bang and evolution occurred guided by God. I’m paraphrasing here, but that is my belief.

The LCMS reject evolution and they believe the same as what I’d heard on a video on Creation.com. They believe what the Bible says, literally. Man was created, fully formed, as was the Universe. They say there are only two possibilities……that God created everything fully formed like the Bible says, or there was a Big Bang and we and the Universe evolved without God, which they reject.

Why do so many people reject the third option…..that God caused the Big Bang and evolution did occur under God’s guidance? From conversations I’ve had with priests and things I’ve read on Catholic Answers, the third option is acceptable for a Catholic to believe. It is, isn’t it?
I will say in defense of the LCMS that they do accept microevolution, I think, just not macroevolution.

This short video on context of the Bible describes the issue quite well:

 

[Job 33:6]

The LCMSs rejection of evolution as well as their belief that the universe is only 6000 years old really, really bothered me. Now I’m worried about my husband. He started going to church there with me when I belonged and even bought himself a Bible. I told him that I’d still go with him to church occasionally, as well as Mass….two services in one weekend, I just can’t take Communion. But he’s only gone to church once or twice since I stopped attending the LCMS. He recently said that it’s not his church, that he was going there because I went there. And he has no desire to become Catholic.

Sounds like a good opportunity to try new churches.

 

[FaithT]

Sounds like a good opportunity to try new churches.

Been there done that. As for now I’m happy at my Catholic Church.

 

[The Barbarian]

I don't believe in evolution myself. Seems like we'd still be evolving if that were the case.

Human populations are evolving. Some of them remarkably quickly. Individuals don't evolve though. Only populations do.

 

[olgamc]

Why do so many people reject the third option…..that God caused the Big Bang and evolution did occur under God’s guidance?

I hear you! I just had a debate with some creationist friends today. Again. LOL Personally, I think that evolution is a theory - it's not a fact, it's a theory. As a theory, it has the right to exist as a logical exercise of human intelligence, and it may or may not turn out to be law or fact. Facts do not change, but laws can change, as our understanding changes. But what I see is both groups of people making the same logically fallacy, which is taking a theory and claiming it as either fact (evolutionists) or non-fact (creationists).

My creationist friends argue that if the story of creation, which includes the fall, cannot be taken literally, than the story of redemption also cannot be taken literally. And therefore the story of creation must be taken literally. I agree with that, because Paul takes it literally in Romans 5:12 and 17 and reiterates it again in verses 18-19.

But there is a difference between reading the story literally and inferring things from it that it does not say. For example, it says that there was evening and morning, day 1. In other words, there was a change from a period of light to a period of darkness and then back to light, and God called that period of time day 1. Why do they infer that it was 24 hours? The sun was not created yet, so there was no rotation of earth around a source of light, so the 24 hour day had not yet been created. This is just one example out of many where I feel like hard-core creationists will add to what the Bible says and call it literal interpretation. It's not literal, we are adding our own bias to the Word, and then arguing about it.

Imo, these arguments are not productive and should be avoided 2 Timothy 2:23-26. Imo it is not important HOW God created the world, but THAT God created the world. The points that are important can be learned without an argument, e.g. that God created the world and that the world did not create itself. That man was created differently than animals - he was created to be like God. And even if God did use and guide evolution in some aspects of creation, it appears that for a man that was not the case, because it specifically says God formed the man out of the dust of the earth. We can all agree that sabbath was created as a time of rest and that God appointed the 7th day of the week as a blessing to us, without arguing over the days of creation being literal 24 hour days.

So what I say to my creationist friends is - who cares about 24 hour days and 6,000 years and whether evolution exists, it's not important. But for some reason it's important to them, and I really struggle to understand that. Why does it have to be creation vs evolution? Why can't God be in charge of all processes, including evolution? And why can't we accept that we don't know everything?

 

[The Barbarian]

So what I say to my creationist friends is - who cares about 24 hour days and 6,000 years and whether evolution exists, it's not important. But for some reason it's important to them, and I really struggle to understand that. Why does it have to be creation vs evolution? Why can't God be in charge of all processes, including evolution? And why can't we accept that we don't know everything?

Truth is, one's salvation doesn't depend at all on one's opinion of evolution. In fact, most creationists I have talked to, will admit that God is perfectly capable of creating living populations by evolution. They just don't think He did. Which won't put their souls in danger, unless they make an idol of creationism. And most don't.

 

[olgamc]

Truth is, one's salvation doesn't depend at all on one's opinion of evolution. In fact, most creationists I have talked to, will admit that God is perfectly capable of creating living populations by evolution. They just don't think He did. Which won't put their souls in danger, unless they make an idol of creationism. And most don't.

But if they believe that our salvation doesn't depend on it, why do they make such a big deal?

Truth is, one's salvation doesn't depend at all on one's opinion of evolution. In fact, most creationists I have talked to, will admit that God is perfectly capable of creating living populations by evolution. They just don't think He did. Which won't put their souls in danger, unless they make an idol of creationism. And most don't.

Yes, that's the funny thing. They will willingly admit that God could have used evolution. And then they say "but He didn't". How do they know?