Conservative Lutheran understanding of the law

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joyfulthanks

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Hello all,

I am considering visiting a local LCMS church sometime soon. I was hoping you can help me understand something about Lutheranism. How would you describe the conservative Lutheran understanding of law and grace? What part does the law play/not play in the believer's life?

Thanks for your help,
Grace
 

Protoevangel

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are three uses to the Law:

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. So that external discipline and decency are maintained against wild, disobedient people.
2. So that through it men are brought to a knowledge of their sins.
3. And also that, when they have been born anew by the Spirit of God, converted to the Lord, they live and walk in the law.

Through Christ, the Law no longer condemns believers. In Him, we are set free from the curse of the Law.

This might help - read V (Law and Gospel) and VI (The Third Use of the Law).
[/font]
 
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night2day

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While not changing anything already said:

1.) Curb
2.) Mirror
3.) Guide

The Law acts as the Curb and presents the Moral Law to any society. A Mirror as it reflects our sin. The Law, however, does not save and never could save. It does not show anything but the sordid reflection we all share as sinners And a Guide to any believer in Christ to how God wants us to live.

The Gospel is presented to assure those who are troubled by their sins, and, through repentance and faith in Christ because of who He is and what He has done for us, is brought about by the Holy Spirit, they have complete forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

The Law and Gospel shouldn't be confused. One cannot be saved by the Law. And the Gospel cannot tell us what we are or are not to do. The Law is what God expects us to do. The Gospel is what God has done for us. Grace itself is known as:

God's
Riches
at
Christ's
Expense

Lutherans call this the "Theology of the Cross". Our faith is something God has worked within us and continues working within us. It's not about what "we" do. It's about what God had done and still does under the shadow of the cross.

As a side note, some think the Old Testament represents the Law while the New Testament represents the Gospel. There is Law and Gospel within both Testament.
 
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C.F.W. Walther

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:wave:


I know all the reasons why God forgives our sins by grace and mercy but I really have difficulty with this scenerio:

"I'm walking the street and Jesus sudenly appears and I ask him a question about somethig that has been bothering me for some time. I ask him about getting married again because I was divorced by leaving my wife and then marying another divorced lady. He says "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery". Then I say well what about God's grace and mercy and He says "What did I just tell you?".

Now I know that this is just hypothetical but if I had that personal, upclose encounter and these words came from his mouth, how could I dispute what he says? Talking to pastors and others in the "know" hasn't reassured me totally that I don't have some responsibilty in this matter except his command to Magdelen "go and sin no more" and that God WILL forgive me "as far as the east as from the west" but.........to me that seems to deliberate a sin and one of premeditated thought. Or does it mean that the previous divorce was forginven me and is no more and I can get remarried? I just have a problem with a direct commant from Him and not just subscribed old testament law.





:confused:
 
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Protoevangel

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Radidio said:
:wave:


I know all the reasons why God forgives our sins by grace and mercy but I really have difficulty with this scenerio:

"I'm walking the street and Jesus sudenly appears and I ask him a question about somethig that has been bothering me for some time. I ask him about getting married again because I was divorced by leaving my wife and then marying another divorced lady. He says "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery". Then I say well what about God's grace and mercy and He says "What did I just tell you?".

Now I know that this is just hypothetical but if I had that personal, upclose encounter and these words came from his mouth, how could I dispute what he says? Talking to pastors and others in the "know" hasn't reassured me totally that I don't have some responsibilty in this matter except his command to Magdelen "go and sin no more" and that God WILL forgive me "as far as the east as from the west" but.........to me that seems to deliberate a sin and one of premeditated thought. Or does it mean that the previous divorce was forginven me and is no more and I can get remarried? I just have a problem with a direct commant from Him and not just subscribed old testament law.





:confused:
That's a really good question. The way i see it is this:

1.) We are absolutely required to follow the Law. Not to the best of our ability, but completely; perfectly. (First use of the Law)

2.) Christ paid the penalty for our transgressions, so we are no longer under the curse of the Law. It can not condemn us.
2a.) God's Word is still God's Word. His Law shows us His Will for us. (Third use of the Law)

3.) If we love Him, we will be moved tokeep His commandments. We are still of the old Adam, so we will not keep them perfectly, nor in every detail, but our motivation is changed to not exclusively hate His Law.

4.) Now, because of #2 above, instead of condemnation when we do break God's Law, we are:
4a.) ... Concious that we have transgressed (Second use of the Law)
4b.) ... Repentant and saddened that we have offended our Father
4c.) ... Joy filled that we are still His children

When teaching on the Law and the Gospel, Martin Luther was asked by one of his students: "Do you mean to tell us that because we are Christians, we can do whatever we want, any time we want". ^_^

What do you think Martin answered him?

Luther replied to the student: "Yes, indeed, you can do whatever you want, whenever you want." :eek:

Shocking, huh?

Then Martin followed up with this: "Now... WHAT do you want?" :amen:



So, should the person on the street you describe marry again?
- No.

Will the act of marying, damn him? Or will the act of 'not marying', save him?
-- Once again, no.

On the other hand, would a person who is genuinly in Christ disobey His direct command? If he did (in a time of weakness (we all still have the old Adam, and must drown him daily), would he then demand that the act was not sinful, or would he be sorrowful and repent, while still continuing to fulfill all his responsibility his this 'new' wife?
 
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ByzantineDixie

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The deliberate, premeditation thing bothers me...makes me think about David and Bathsheba and Uriah. Luther said that the Holy Spirit had departed from David when he had committed adultery with Bathsheba and had Uriah killed.

From the Smalcald Articles

43 It is therefore necessary to know and to teach that when holy people, aside from the fact that they still possess and feel original sin and daily repent and strive against it, fall into open sin (as David fell into adultery, murder, and blasphemy),2 faith and the Spirit have departed from them. 44 This is so because the Holy Spirit does not permit sin to rule and gain the upper hand in such a way that sin is committed, but the Holy Spirit represses and restrains it so that it does not do what it wishes. If the sin does what it wishes, the Holy Spirit and faith are not present,
2 Cf. II Sam. 11.
Tappert, T. G. (2000, c1959). The book of concord : The confessions of the evangelical Lutheran church. Philadelphia: Fortress Press.

Without the Holy Spirit...there is no faith. Unrepentent sin is mortal sin. Reconversion would be necessary.
 
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Protoevangel

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I agree, but it is not the act or work itself that causes the Holy Spirit and Faith to leave the person, but the hardness of the person's heart. If the sin does what it wishes, the Holy Spirit and faith are [already] not present*. It is not the breaking of the Law iself that is damaging to our relationship, but the rejection of the relationship that allows us to fall into the willful breaking of the Law.

* Smalcald Articles 3:43
 
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night2day

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Brushing aside hypotheticals (which are very easy to get caught up in without even dentering in on the heart matter methinks) I'd say there's a big differance between being drawn in repentance and faith by in Christ by the Holy Spirit, having that forgiveness applied while another doubts and falls into complete dispair over his sins forgiven...thus allowing the feelings and emotions to take over completely.
 
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