Climate Change acronym memory aid challenge - how to sum up risks to people and planet?

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,774
51,640
Guam
✟4,951,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Jay Lehr, who has called the EPA “Fraudulent” in its estimates of how pollution poses hazards to human health, was himself convicted and sentenced to six months in prison for defrauding the EPA, reports Connor Gibson of Polluterwatch.7

So what?

Does that make those four points he made wrong?

If C. Everett Koop said SMOKING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH, would you find something he said about math being wrong, then discredit his former statement?

Isn't there some name for that?
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Abortion, crime, alternate lifestyles, democrats, shacking up, etc.
Oh - so only immoral stuff. The stuff you get to feel judgemental about.
Not the fact that young girls might have been raped, or that inflation is now so bad people might be forced to drop out of society into various alternative lifestyles, or that the private sector isn't supplying everything we need so people vote Democrat (because Corporations report to SHAREHOLDERS and do NOT care about morality or society), or that young people are so disillusioned with the American church identifying with Trump that they're leaving not just because they don't believe anymore - but because they realise many of the leaders don't - they're just wanting an excuse to justify their conservative politics!

But you've basically illustrated my point. I don't know you - but from what you've answered it appears (over this distance of the internet) that you don't care - you judge. I asked what grieves you - and I agree that as Christians people rejecting God and doing their own thing should grieve us. But what about Hamas terrorism attacking Israel (horrific! Unjustified) and then Israel replying with a murderous war killing TEN TIMES as many civilians, women and children as the original Hamas attack? Using starvation and dislocation basically as war crimes against the civilians of Gaza? What about welfare issues - like child abuse, homelessness, abuse of the elderly in care facilities, youth depression and suicide, domestic violence, lack of access to good education, police shootings of African-Americans at a disproportionate rate, child porn, victimisation of women in the porn industry that also enslaves the consumers of porn in an addictive cycle, the rich getting vastly too rich while the average American struggles and your bridges are rusting out and falling down?

Or in your version of America everything's fine?

James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.​

In other words - to your original objection that there are so many environmental concerns we don't have time to worry about climate change - um.... there are MANY things to think about. Now just because I was busy as a Child Protection officer in one part of my life does not mean I could not also care about many other issues. Just because you might care about some of the issues you raised - does not mean you get to sneer at climate change. Imagine if I said I cared about youth suicide - and yet sneered at elderly abuse? I'm not saying everyone has to be an activist about everything - but if you acknowledged the facts - you could at least care about climate change and how it is going to make every social issue worse!
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
So what?

Does that make those four points he made wrong?

If C. Everett Koop said SMOKING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH, would you find something he said about math being wrong, then discredit his former statement?
I would respect Koop for what he says within his discipline.

I would go to a mathematician for maths.

You're quoting a GP on climate change. Please explain why? Oh yeah - because you liked what he said - 26 years ago - which EVERYTHING SINCE has shown to be wrong.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,774
51,640
Guam
✟4,951,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm not saying everyone has to be an activist about everything - but if you acknowledged the facts - you could at least care about climate change and how it is going to make every social issue worse!

I'm more interested that my pizza gets here on time, than I am your climate change.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I'm more interested that my pizza gets here on time, than I am your climate change.
Ah - more sneering.
How consistent.

Yep - Mr Judgie cares-about-nothing but sneering.
OK - we're done here.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Rocket surgeon
Mar 11, 2017
15,803
12,599
54
USA
✟312,820.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The anti AGW nonsense in this thread is so pronounced it makes one think if Poe's law is in effect.
Nah. It's just 30+ years of oil company propaganda filtered through "think tanks" and "news outlets".
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Nah. It's just 30+ years of oil company propaganda filtered through "think tanks" and "news outlets".
And yet the same big oil that sponsors all that (also into church groups and retirement villages) had their own researchers look at it.

SHELL Memo - 1989

"Africans would push into Europe, Chinese into the Soviet Union, Latins into the United States, Indonesians into Australia. Boundaries would count for little - overwhelmed by the numbers. Conflicts would abound. Civilisation could prove a fragile thing."

Shell: Page 5, Confidential Group Planning PL89 SO1 - October 1989.
'Bombshell' 1989 Shell Memo Features in New Court Filing Alleging Climate Deception
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Rocket surgeon
Mar 11, 2017
15,803
12,599
54
USA
✟312,820.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
And yet the same big oil that sponsors all that (also into church groups and retirement villages) had their own researchers look at it.

SHELL Memo - 1989

"Africans would push into Europe, Chinese into the Soviet Union, Latins into the United States, Indonesians into Australia. Boundaries would count for little - overwhelmed by the numbers. Conflicts would abound. Civilisation could prove a fragile thing."

Shell: Page 5, Confidential Group Planning PL89 SO1 - October 1989.
'Bombshell' 1989 Shell Memo Features in New Court Filing Alleging Climate Deception

They clearly chose to protect the short-term (at least decadal) value of their assets and income stream.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eclipsenow
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,802
9,750
✟246,070.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I don't know what qualifications you have. to make any valid points on the climate debate. The experts don't agree with each other, so it's pointless and futile for butchers and pastry chefs to weigh in on the debate as they have nothing to offer apart from speculation.
Correct. You don't know what qualifications I have "to make any valid points on the climate debate".
I'll tell you. I hold a science degreee and in the process of acquiring it I developed the art of critical thinking, learned how to assess competing hypotheses, was schooled in the importance of evidence, came to appreciate and apply techniques of data analysis, and gained insight into recognising logical fallacies and manipulative rhetoric. I then spent half a century applying what I had learned.

My degree has minors in chemistry (you know, the science that deals with things like the heat retention properties of CO2 and CH4), geography (that includes weather and climate as subsets, and explores their impact upon society), while my major was geology (where historical geology deals with ancient climates, their variations, and the causes and consequences of those variations.)

My continuing interest in these matters is revealed by some of the textbooks in my library. Principles of Physical Geography, Atmosphere, Weather and Climate, An Introduction to Advanced Geography, Studies in Paleo-Oceanography, Chemistry of Atmospheres, General Oceanography, Palaeontology and Paleoenvironments, Paleoclimatology. Not to mention dozens of research papers on geochemical cycles on Earth, Mars and Venus, cycles that play a crucial role in long term climate and shed light on the impact of changes in one or more variables.

I do not have the qualifications to make an original contribution to climate science. I do have the qualifications to express an informed opinion on the conclusions reached by those who do.
The man on the street is clueless, so most do as sheep do and follow the crowd. I don't follow crowds, I'm a free thinking individual who doesn't drink kool aid just because the crowd does.
I got over teenage angst and rebellion many decades ago. I walk with the crowd if, and only if, they are travelling in the right direction. On climate change it seems, based on the science, they are.

As to your assertions about disagreement among the experts, @eclipsenow eviscerated them in post #73.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
They clearly chose to protect the short-term (at least decadal) value of their assets and income stream.
Big oil are scared. The end of the good times is here - and their industry is going to contract back to a fraction of what it is today.

OIL DEMAND TO PEAK: The IEA tracks EV sales over the last few years: 2020: 5% 2021: 9% 2022: 14%

OIL GLUT BY 2028

New refineries are coming because they're aware the petroleum and diesel sectors are going to crash. From crude oil to chemicals: How refineries can adapt to shifting demand

The IEA, EIA and oil producers are all talking about it.
US is at peak gasoline demand: Phillips 66 | Latest Market News

The RMI has a report on how refineries can adapt to lower fuel demands but still make petro-chemicals and maybe jet fuel. (probably the hardest and last thing to decarbonise.)
Five Ways US Oil Refineries Can Reduce Emissions Today - RMI
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
My continuing interest in these matters is revealed by some of the textbooks in my library. Principles of Physical Geography, Atmosphere, Weather and Climate, An Introduction to Advanced Geography, Studies in Paleo-Oceanography, Chemistry of Atmospheres, General Oceanography, Palaeontology and Paleoenvironments, Paleoclimatology. Not to mention dozens of research papers on geochemical cycles on Earth, Mars and Venus, cycles that play a crucial role in long term climate and shed light on the impact of changes in one or more variables.

I do not have the qualifications to make an original contribution to climate science. I do have the qualifications to express an informed opinion on the conclusions reached by those who do.
Mate - I'm going to have to remember that and ask your opinion on things when they get too advanced for me. :oldthumbsup:
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

Astrophile

Newbie
Aug 30, 2013
2,290
1,533
76
England
✟236,545.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Widowed
Large scale deforestation does not result in local climate change but is global and contributes 11% to total CO₂ emissions since it creates carbon sources while at the same time destroying carbon sinks.
Perhaps you should have put 'does not result only in local climate change'.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
8,368
1,754
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟145,772.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I woke up this morning disliking "WASTELANDS" as too many letters and too cumbersome and started to cut it all back to "FIRES".

If you were summarising the effects with an acronym - would you prioritise brevity so that at least the main points were memorised?

“FIRES” – Famine, Instability, Refugees, Extinctions and Super-Storms.

Each of those requires 3 or 4 bullet points underneath.
But I guess 5 letters is easier than 10 hey?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,802
9,750
✟246,070.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I woke up this morning disliking "WASTELANDS" as too many letters and too cumbersome and started to cut it all back to "FIRES".

If you were summarising the effects with an acronym - would you prioritise brevity so that at least the main points were memorised?

“FIRES” – Famine, Instability, Refugees, Extinctions and Super-Storms.

Each of those requires 3 or 4 bullet points underneath.
But I guess 5 letters is easier than 10 hey?
I applaud your choice. The longer acronyms offer an nice opportunity for an intriguing intellectual exercise, but will be less effective. This was brought home to me in the 1960s by a book review in the UK Sunday newspaper, The Observer. The book was called The Art of Brevity, the review read "Excellent."
 
Upvote 0