Can a saved Christian fall from grace and loose their salvation

[Athanasias]

I am looking to do an ecumenical dialog(not debate) on this issue of loosing your salvation or falling into mortal sin. I would take the Catholic position that a saved Christian can fall from grace by his actions or lack of them and fall from grace and if he does not repent he will loose that salvation in Christ. The Old and New Testament and the whole of Christian history attest to this I believe I am open to dialog with anyone on this as long as they are not anti-Catholic.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

I am looking to do an ecumenical dialog(not debate) on this issue of loosing your salvation or falling into mortal sin. I would take the Catholic position that a saved Christian can fall from grace by his actions or lack of them and fall from grace and if he does not repent he will loose that salvation in Christ. The Old and New Testament and the whole of Christian history attest to this I believe I am open to dialog with anyone on this as long as they are not anti-Catholic.

A true Protestant IS anti-Catholic ; the very word 'PROTESTANT' is one who protests the RCC on many issues of importance and it began way before the Protestant Reformation when notable Catholic Scholars abandoned the heresies of Catholicism . Now...the term anti-Catholic doesn't mean tossing Molotov cocktails at Catholic Churches and statues of Popes gone by ...but there is no shame and in fact it is duly proper to be anti anything that comes against the BIble, the finished sufficient work of Christ on calvary, and Gods very character (all of which RCism accomplishes thru their formal doctrine as I have clearly illustrated in past debates) .

If you desire for Protestants as a whole to become less anti - catholic, it would help if the current Pope were to humbly apologize for the heinous murdering of Bible Adherrants as in the Inquisitions who refused to bow before wicked Popes. That would be a good start. Or, you could just go on with the mantra of 'anti-catholic' as if to try n persuade the populous that people are without justification for wearing that label. It gets tiresome listening to the whining as if the Catholic Community including its Institution is some sort of poor, little, defenseless, innocent Sheep on the hillside . Im all for unity (not ecumenism) but first lets hear some humility concerning past atrocities especially like Tyndale and Others who were burned at a stake alive..........maybe Protestants wouldn't be so 'anti'-catholic then and you could refrain from advertising the common catholic mantra .

 

[GregoryTheNonTheologian]

I am looking to do an ecumenical dialog(not debate) on this issue of loosing your salvation or falling into mortal sin. I would take the Catholic position that a saved Christian can fall from grace by his actions or lack of them and fall from grace and if he does not repent he will loose that salvation in Christ. The Old and New Testament and the whole of Christian history attest to this I believe I am open to dialog with anyone on this as long as they are not anti-Catholic.

Is your dialog confined only to western theology (i.e. Protestant and Roman Catholic theology), or are you also interested in Eastern Orthodox viewpoints?

 

[jerry kelso]

I am looking to do an ecumenical dialog(not debate) on this issue of loosing your salvation or falling into mortal sin. I would take the Catholic position that a saved Christian can fall from grace by his actions or lack of them and fall from grace and if he does not repent he will loose that salvation in Christ. The Old and New Testament and the whole of Christian history attest to this I believe I am open to dialog with anyone on this as long as they are not anti-Catholic.

athanasias,

1. Biblically, a saved christian loses his salvation when he changes masters according to Romans 6. When a christian sins doesn't mean necessarily he has forsaken his life with Christ. They are to ask forgiveness and be restored.
Also, not every sin committed is a death penalty sin. Even under civil law this is true. We have to be careful to say sinning by action because it can border on dipping into the law mentality.
When a christian changes masters and no longer serves Christ anymore they have definitely backslid and have fallen from grace and are no longer protected by Christ from the enemy because they have once again become a rebel against Christ. They can be saved again according to James 5:19-20.
When they have changed masters and have become rebels again they are no longer saved for sure and they are headed down the road to possible permanent apostasy. This deals with the laws of degradation and hardening of the heart like the reprobate person Paul takes about. Jerry kelso

 

[Athanasias]

Is your dialog confined only to western theology (i.e. Protestant and Roman Catholic theology), or are you also interested in Eastern Orthodox viewpoints?

Well I am pretty sure the Orthodox theology on this will be similar to the Catholic one. I do not know any Orthodox that hold to the late doctrine of osas. So its kinda just a Catholic verses Baptist/Calvinist debate.

 

[Athanasias]

athanasias,

1. Biblically, a saved christian loses his salvation when he changes masters according to Romans 6. When a christian sins doesn't mean necessarily he has forsaken his life with Christ. They are to ask forgiveness and be restored.
Also, not every sin committed is a death penalty sin. Even under civil law this is true. We have to be careful to say sinning by action because it can border on dipping into the law mentality.
When a christian changes masters and no longer serves Christ anymore they have definitely backslid and have fallen from grace and are no longer protected by Christ from the enemy because they have once again become a rebel against Christ. They can be saved again according to James 5:19-20.
When they have changed masters and have become rebels again they are no longer saved for sure and they are headed down the road to possible permanent apostasy. This deals with the laws of degradation and hardening of the heart like the reprobate person Paul takes about. Jerry kelso

I am not disagreeing with you here Jerry. You gave a great answer. I am dealing with those that teach osas or Once saved always saved. You made some good points. The bible is full of examples like the ones you mentioned. Good job!

 

[GregoryTheNonTheologian]

Well I am pretty sure the Orthodox theology on this will be similar to the Catholic one. I do not know any Orthodox that hold to the late doctrine of osas. So its kinda just a Catholic verses Baptist/Calvinist debate.

The Orthodox theology of salvation (soteriology) is completely different from the Roman Catholic theology. Protestant and Roman Catholic soteriology have much more in common with each other than either has with that of the Orthodox Church.

 

[Athanasias]

The Orthodox theology of salvation (soteriology) is completely different from the Roman Catholic theology. Protestant and Roman Catholic soteriology have much more in common with each other than either has with that of the Orthodox Church.

I understand that the Orthodox have a different way of explaining the theology of soteriology then do us Western theologians. I know we have Eastern Catholics united to the Pope who also use the same eastern Fathers and explain it and emphasizing different aspects using eastern theological concepts as you may but believe me we teach the same on this subject. But the point is the Orthodox Church does not teach OSAS. Some of the fundamentalist do in the west. This is what I would dialog on. Sorry its kinda of debate between a baptist and a Catholic at this point. No offense.

 

[GregoryTheNonTheologian]

we teach the same on this subject

The teaching is completely different because there is a completely different understanding of what "Original Sin" is between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches - a departure that began with Augustine. In that sense, I agree that it is a Protestant/Catholic debate, since you have the same basic understanding of what "salvation" remedied.

(Uniates may follow the eastern Fathers, but that doesn't mean that they are aligned with Orthodox doctrine.)

 

[jerry kelso]

I am not disagreeing with you here Jerry. You gave a great answer. I am dealing with those that teach osas or Once saved always saved. You made some good points. The bible is full of examples like the ones you mentioned. Good job!

athanasias,
I understand and I appreciated your kind compliment.
I know many take a calvinistic approach of God's sovereignty over everything even if it doesn't match up with his character of holiness and righteous judgement.
A real relationship is reciprocal. God bless Jerry Kelso

 

[Athanasias]

athanasias,
I understand and I appreciated your kind compliment.
I know many take a calvinistic approach of God's sovereignty over everything even if it doesn't match up with his character of holiness and righteous judgement.
A real relationship is reciprocal. God bless Jerry Kelso

Amen! Well said!

 

[Athanasias]

The teaching is completely different because there is a completely different understanding of what "Original Sin" is between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches - a departure that began with Augustine. In that sense, I agree that it is a Protestant/Catholic debate, since you have the same basic understanding of what "salvation" remedied.

(Uniates may follow the eastern Fathers, but that doesn't mean that they are aligned with Orthodox doctrine.)

Hey buddy I am not going to get into a debate with you about the East and West. You can debate a Eastern Catholic on that in some other areas if you want. The Point of my dialog is the OSAS doctrine. Now the EO's do not hold to OSAS. Its OSAS(Once Saved always Saved) that I want to debate. Ok? So please stop derailing this thread. Thanks. God bless you.

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasias

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Hey buddy I am not going to get into a debate with you about the East and West. You can debate a Eastern Catholic on that in some other areas if you want. The Point of my dialog is the OSAS doctrine. Now the EO's do not hold to OSAS. Its OSAS(Once Saved always Saved) that I want to debate. Ok? So please stop derailing this thread. Thanks. God bless you.

In Jesus through Mary,

Athanasias

Hi Athanasias ,

You may consider advertising this request in GT; posting a link back to this thread; you may get a few more interested parties.

The teaching is completely different because there is a completely different understanding of what "Original Sin" is between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches - a departure that began with Augustine. In that sense, I agree that it is a Protestant/Catholic debate, since you have the same basic understanding of what "salvation" remedied.

(Uniates may follow the eastern Fathers, but that doesn't mean that they are aligned with Orthodox doctrine.)

GregoryTheNonTheologian,

Such a debate would be interesting. Feel free to start your own proposal thread.