Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness Plan Is An Illegal Scheme To Buy Back Young Votes

[Valletta]

How’s about a benefit (from a job) that specifically pays down the employee’s student debt?
(If a business is getting a “good”, in this case a well-educated [YMMV] employee, then the business should be expected to pay for that good, at least in part. There could be “matching funds”, (like they do with 401k’s and IRAs?)

How about people just purchasing or borrowing for themselves?

 

[iluvatar5150]

I think the conservative approach would. The thing is it really hasn't been applied. Since the days of Johnson at least the political landscape on this issue has always been towards the perpetual assistance model.

You could look to the days before Johnson. You could also look to other countries. What happens when you don't give people assistance?

It seems you should have asked him that before demanding a test regarding degrees and loans. Find out what he meant first.

He's welcome to propose his own test.

I consider DEI a woke major.

How many schools have a DEI major?

 

[Valletta]

You could look to the days before Johnson. You could also look to other countries. What happens when you don't give people assistance?



He's welcome to propose his own test.


How many schools have a DEI major?

Like Climate Change, DEI majors are increasing. Here's an article from over a year ago, really at the very beginning of the movement:

Why are colleges offering up more DEI degrees? Demand for diversity expertise is growing.

As controversy surrounding DEI initiatives mounts, at least a half-dozen U.S. colleges currently or will soon offer degree programs in the field.

www.usatoday.com

 

[iluvatar5150]

Let me ask you a question. Are there perpetually poor people who are there because they make poor choices, are unwise or lazy? Yes or no.

Sure, but there are people at every income level who are unwise, lazy, and/or make poor choices. Some of them get lucky and their poor choices wind up not having consequences, or they have family to bail them out of those consequences.

Most people wind up following a trajectory roughly similar to what they grew up knowing. This shows up in data as, among other things, children's income being highly correlate to their parents' income, but it's also a pretty easy thought experiment - aspirations and norms are shaped by your environment. A kid is going to be more likely to be a doctor or a cop or a soldier if they grow up in a household where they see a doctor or a cop or a soldier every day. The same is true if they grow up in a house where their parents have low-end jobs, a disdain for education, and/or some other dysfunction.

Going to college and getting a job because it's all you know and it's expected of you isn't really any more ambitious or less lazy than going out and getting a job at walmart because that's all you know and it's what's expected of you. It's just a thing you do.

I can see these dynamics in my own life: I know a lot of engineers, a handful of finance guys, and a lot of people in the arts (mostly musicians, composers, and some actors). Based on this small sample, there's a negative correlation between the amount of ambition and hustle these folks have and the amount of money they make. The finance guys and most of the engineers do their jobs well, but they don't really have much hustle. They went to school, got jobs, some went back to grad school and got different jobs. But none of them are out there networking and building businesses or job hopping all the time. Almost all of them find comfortable gigs and park their butts there for a long time. The engineers all make $150-200k (maybe more) while the finance guys are somewhere north of $500k. The actors and freelance musicians, OTOH, are hustling for work constantly. With all of the auditions they do, they're effectively applying for several new jobs per year, often working multiple at once. Of the actors I know, I suspect only one can support herself with her acting full time, and she's doing speaking roles on Broadway. Everybody else has other jobs.

So, to answer your question - having worked among "successful" people for a while now, I don't have that lofty a view of them. There are tons of people who coast along or are even grossly incompetent yet still pull down salaries that afford them very comfortable lives. I don't think it's fair to fair to take people working less prestigious jobs and grind them into poverty for not being more ambitious than many of the people who started off higher up the ladder than they did.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Like Climate Change, DEI majors are increasing. Here's an article from over a year ago, really at the very beginning of the movement:

Why are colleges offering up more DEI degrees? Demand for diversity expertise is growing.

As controversy surrounding DEI initiatives mounts, at least a half-dozen U.S. colleges currently or will soon offer degree programs in the field.

www.usatoday.com

But I thought we were talking about "a number" of the college loans that were going to be forgiven. How could these DEI degrees be making up many of the outstanding loans if this article from last year is from "the very beginning of the movement"?

 

[Valletta]

But I thought we were talking about "a number" of the college loans that were going to be forgiven. How could these DEI degrees be making up many of the outstanding loans if this article from last year is from "the very beginning of the movement"?

Never claimed they were, I just gave you one example of a woke degree, in keeping up with the newest woke trend wording. CRT and other woke Marxist-type courses were generally taught under categories such as ethnic or racial studies. Here, I quickly found one from California that well expresses the ideology no matter what it is called:

"The major offers a strong liberal arts education for students considering admission to graduate or professional schools and careers in education, law, medicine, public health, social work, counseling, journalism, business, city planning, politics, psychology, international relations, creative writing, and the arts."

UC Merced Critical Race and Ethnic Studies Degree Program

Critical Race and Ethnic Studies (CRES) seeks to understand the ways society is culturally and institutionally constituted by ideas of race. Learn more online.

www.ucmerced.edu

When I think of woke this is what comes to mind. But other majors such as political science, or journalism and other mentioned above, or others where CRT and the like are included, can get a good dosage of woke.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Never claimed they were, I just gave you one example of a woke degree, in keeping up with the newest woke trend wording. CRT and other woke Marxist-type courses were generally taught under categories such as ethnic or racial studies. Here, I quickly found one from California that well expresses the ideology no matter what it is called:

"The major offers a strong liberal arts education for students considering admission to graduate or professional schools and careers in education, law, medicine, public health, social work, counseling, journalism, business, city planning, politics, psychology, international relations, creative writing, and the arts."

UC Merced Critical Race and Ethnic Studies Degree Program

Critical Race and Ethnic Studies (CRES) seeks to understand the ways society is culturally and institutionally constituted by ideas of race. Learn more online.

www.ucmerced.edu

When I think of woke this is what comes to mind. But other majors such as political science, or journalism and other mentioned above, or others where CRT and the like are included, can get a good dosage of woke.

What percentage of the outstanding loans are made up of those degrees?

 

[Valletta]

What percentage of the outstanding loans are made up of those degrees?

Yes there are a lot of sociology and psychology degrees (and I am not demeaning such degrees) but the point is that it is totally unfair for, say, a blue collar guy who works while learning to be an electrician, through apprenticeship and being a journeyman, to have to pay off even one of their degrees. And Joe is defying the United States Supreme Court and could end up costing the taxpayers a trillion dollars! We have to pick up millions of dollars in taxes that Hunter skipped out on as well.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yes there are a lot of sociology and psychology degrees (and I am not demeaning such degrees) but the point is that it is totally unfair for, say, a blue collar guy who works while learning to be an electrician, through apprenticeship and being a journeyman, to have to pay off even one of their degrees.

Did you feel similarly about the unneeded PPP loans that were forgiven?

 

[Pommer]

How about people just purchasing or borrowing for themselves?

Apparently this “system” is borked, which is why we’re here.

 

[Valletta]

Did you feel similarly about the unneeded PPP loans that were forgiven?

Most importantly it is wrong because it is illegal and that Joe is defying a Supreme Court order. The rest is that a lot of the loans today are being used in part, improperly, for woke political indoctrination while the government is neglecting their basic responsibility for the security of American citizens--rubbing salt in the wound.

 

[rjs330]

In Denmark there is no minimum wage. The employees were able to create a union and that's how they got the $22 an hour.

Sounds like Denmark is heaven. Maybe you ought to go live there. You'd be happier for sure with your all your free stuff, a 50% tax and a 25% VAT. You could go work at McDonalds.

 

[rjs330]

What happens when you don't give people assistance?

Who said anything about not giving people assistance? There you go again, failing to read what was written.

I am beginning to see the issue. You have such a strong preconceived notion about conservatives that your brain is just wired to always see things in your preconceived light.

He's welcome to propose his own test.

I don't think he wants to take your test. Your proposed test is very typical for liberals these days. I saw it in another thread. It seems that liberals have a tendency to move toward the all or nothing model. For example.

1. Conservatives don't want the same welfare liberala want therefore they dont want to give anyone assistance.
2. College level.CRT is not being taught in the lower grades therefore there is no CRT is schools
3. There isn't any College degree for "Woke" therefore there is no wokeness in College education.
4. Conservatives don't want men in women's private spaces therefore Conservatives don't want any man to wear a dress anywhere.
5. Because conservatives do y want CRT taught in schools they don't want slavery taught in schools.

I've seen these kinds of arguments said ma y times by the left. It's like there is no nuance to any of it. It's all or nothing. It's either 100mph or 0. There is no in between. There is no recognition that conservatives are willing to help. But because we don't want to help the way you think we should therefore we aren't willing to help, period.

Until we can get past that, it's pretty hard to have good conversation.

 

[rjs330]

Sure, but there are people at every income level who are unwise, lazy, and/or make poor choices. Some of them get lucky and their poor choices wind up not having consequences, or they have family to bail them out of those consequences.

Most people wind up following a trajectory roughly similar to what they grew up knowing. This shows up in data as, among other things, children's income being highly correlate to their parents' income, but it's also a pretty easy thought experiment - aspirations and norms are shaped by your environment. A kid is going to be more likely to be a doctor or a cop or a soldier if they grow up in a household where they see a doctor or a cop or a soldier every day. The same is true if they grow up in a house where their parents have low-end jobs, a disdain for education, and/or some other dysfunction.

Going to college and getting a job because it's all you know and it's expected of you isn't really any more ambitious or less lazy than going out and getting a job at walmart because that's all you know and it's what's expected of you. It's just a thing you do.

I can see these dynamics in my own life: I know a lot of engineers, a handful of finance guys, and a lot of people in the arts (mostly musicians, composers, and some actors). Based on this small sample, there's a negative correlation between the amount of ambition and hustle these folks have and the amount of money they make. The finance guys and most of the engineers do their jobs well, but they don't really have much hustle. They went to school, got jobs, some went back to grad school and got different jobs. But none of them are out there networking and building businesses or job hopping all the time. Almost all of them find comfortable gigs and park their butts there for a long time. The engineers all make $150-200k (maybe more) while the finance guys are somewhere north of $500k. The actors and freelance musicians, OTOH, are hustling for work constantly. With all of the auditions they do, they're effectively applying for several new jobs per year, often working multiple at once. Of the actors I know, I suspect only one can support herself with her acting full time, and she's doing speaking roles on Broadway. Everybody else has other jobs.

So, to answer your question - having worked among "successful" people for a while now, I don't have that lofty a view of them. There are tons of people who coast along or are even grossly incompetent yet still pull down salaries that afford them very comfortable lives. I don't think it's fair to fair to take people working less prestigious jobs and grind them into poverty for not being more ambitious than many of the people who started off higher up the ladder than they did.

Glad we agree. So now will you stop trying to put words in my mouth making it sound like I think it very poor person makes poor decisions or is unwise?

Of course people from every walk of life can be unwise, make poor decisions or are lazy. Absolutely. And there are those who do so who have others bail them out. Do you see the irony in that? Instead of having your neighbor bail them out they have mom or dad to do so. If they didn't they might end up in the poor house due to being like that. So instead of Mom and dad bailing them out for their foolish behavior you want their neighbors to do it.

Yes there is is a perpetual trajectory that can happen. When Mom and dad make good decisions, aren't lazy, aren't unwise the kids go on to follow up. Some don't. And if mom and dad do y bail them out they'll be poor. Being dependant on everyone else to bail them out for their foolishness.

If someone comes from a perpetually poor background and follows the same trajectory then it's their parents and their own fault for doing so. We've been traveling down that road in this country for a long time and want to give people stuff, bailing them out so to speak, for a long time now. And we still have perpetually poor people who continue to make poor decisions that keep them poor.

You can get heard of the poor person who won the lottery? Then they were poor a few years later again?

Wisdom and perseverance is critical for reaching success and continuing to be successful. And no, I don't believe we should not help people. But we are not helping them in the right way. There needs to be a demand with the help and accountability with the help. For THEIR benefit.

 

[7thKeeper]

In Denmark there is no minimum wage. The employees were able to create a union and that's how they got the $22 an hour.

Sounds like Denmark is heaven. Maybe you ought to go live there. You'd be happier for sure with your all your free stuff, a 50% tax and a 25% VAT. You could go work at McDonalds.

Saying there's a 50% tax is very very misleading. It's a progressive tax system, going from 21% (technically 0%) to 44% for income. I hear this complaint about Finland's taxation for income often as well, always quoting the highest tier percentage as if that was what everyone paid for their total income.

And there's no law for minimum wage in Finland either, exactly because the work force is highly unionised, so there's more parity in negotiation power and there's been no need for those laws. The US does require those laws because as a society, it's been quite against workers unions in general.

 

[rjs330]

Saying there's a 50% tax is very very misleading. It's a progressive tax system, going from 21% (technically 0%) to 44% for income. I hear this complaint about Finland's taxation for income often as well, always quoting the highest tier percentage as if that was what everyone paid for their total income.

And there's no law for minimum wage in Finland either, exactly because the work force is highly unionised, so there's more parity in negotiation power and there's been no need for those laws. The US does require those laws because as a society, it's been quite against workers unions in general.

Still sounds like heaven. Perhaps people should move there if that's what they really want. Either that or unionize McDonalds here.

 

[7thKeeper]

Still sounds like heaven. Perhaps people should move there if that's what they really want. Either that or unionize McDonalds here.

? I already live there.

 

[rjs330]

? I already live there.

I know you love it there. That's good. You can enjoy all your high taxes and stuff. You know they raised the minimum wages in California to $20 an hour for a bunch of workers and guess what happened. A bunch of workers lost their jobs or got their hours cut and prices went up for the food. The problem is people think whatever works in other countries will work in the US. Denmark has a population of about 4 million while the US has 330 million. And the culture is quite different here, and the laws are different. The US is FAR removed from the Danish culture. Now, I will say the Danish culture sounds very good. The US would have to radically change it's culture in order to follow the Danish way. Until Americans are willing to do that we are not going to be able to match what the Danes have done. And when I say change I mean alter our Constitution, Government, Systems, demands upon the citizens, homogeneity and I could go on. Simply claiming "the Danes do it" is a myopic point of view and shows a total lack of understanding the differences between the two countries. I know you that's not what you are saying. I am addressing others who want to think all we have to do is be like the Danes without having a clue what it means to be a Dane vs what it means to be an American.

 

[durangodawood]

What you Scandinavians fail to understand is many Americans dont like being happy.

 

[AlexB23]

Last June, the Supreme Court ruled that Biden’s initial student loan forgiveness plan was unconstitutional in a 6-3 decision. Like the previous student loan forgiveness ploy, Biden’s latest plan has not been approved by Congress, and will likely wind up in court again.

Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness Plan Is An Illegal Scheme To Buy Back Young Votes

The official site of the Dan Bongino podcast. Stay up to date on breaking news and information from Dan....

bongino.com

That pesky Supreme Court keeps getting in Joe's way.

Honestly, this problem of student loans in the first place would not have existed, if colleges had lower tuition. The price of tuition has increased at a rate > the average inflation rate, according to Forbes (use a paywall blocker, if you run out of free articles). Denmark has an average tax rate of 37%, but colleges are much cheaper there compared to in the US (which has a 31% tax rate) as stated in a 2015 article from Business Insider. Maybe if we spent less money on fighting wars in other countries, we could spend more money on reducing college tuition.


I. Why Tuition Should be Lowered:

The escalating costs of higher education in the United States have become a significant challenge for students and families, limiting access to valuable opportunities and contributing to a growing economic divide. The ever-increasing college tuition fees have raised concerns about the affordability of higher education and its impact on future generations' economic mobility. In this essay, we will discuss why reducing college tuition is essential and explore various ways to achieve this goal without substantially increasing taxes.

First and foremost, reducing college tuition fees is crucial because it will expand access to higher education for a broader range of students. The high costs can deter those from low-income backgrounds, forcing them to forgo the opportunity to pursue a college degree. By making education more affordable, we open doors to an education that can lead to better jobs, improved economic opportunities, and a more equitable society.

Reducing college tuition can significantly contribute to economic mobility and social equity. Higher education is increasingly becoming a prerequisite for well-paying jobs, leaving those without a degree at a disadvantage. By lowering tuition fees, we can provide a more level playing field and create opportunities for individuals to improve their socioeconomic status, breaking the cycle of generational poverty.

Cheaper college tuition would lead to a decrease in student debt, enabling students to focus on their education rather than worrying about the financial burden of paying for it. Lower tuition fees mean less reliance on loans and more opportunities for students to save or work part-time jobs while attending school, ultimately reducing the financial stress that comes with higher education.


II. 10 Ways to Reduce College Tuition without Substantially Increasing Taxes:

1. State and Federal Grants: Increasing funding for grants at the state and federal levels can help offset the cost of tuition for students, making higher education more affordable without relying heavily on taxpayer dollars.
2. Public-Private Partnerships: Collaborating with private organizations and corporations can help reduce college tuition costs through sponsorships, scholarships, or grants. These partnerships can provide financial support while fostering connections between students and industry professionals.
3. Increasing Institutional Efficiency: Improving college efficiency by reducing administrative costs, streamlining processes, and increasing collaboration between institutions can help keep tuition fees in check.
4. Online Education: Offering more online courses and degree programs can reduce the overall cost of education by eliminating or minimizing the need for physical infrastructure, such as classrooms and dormitories.
5. Tuition Freezes: Implementing tuition freezes or slow growth in tuition fees can help make education more affordable over time and provide students with predictable costs.
6. Student Loan Reforms: Modifying student loan programs, such as income-driven repayment plans or debt forgiveness initiatives, can help alleviate the financial burden of student loans while keeping tuition fees affordable.
7. Corporate Sponsorships and Partnerships: Developing partnerships between businesses, industries, and educational institutions can lead to reduced tuition costs for students in exchange for job placement or industry-specific training.
8. Encouraging Competition: Fostering competition between colleges and universities can lead to price wars, with institutions offering lower tuition fees to attract students, ultimately benefiting the students.
9. Public-Private Student Housing: Partnering with private developers to build and manage student housing can help colleges reduce their infrastructure costs, which in turn could lead to lower tuition fees.
10. State Lottery Funding: Allocating a portion of state lottery funds towards college education can provide additional financial resources for grants and scholarships, reducing the need for substantial tax increases.


III. Seven Biblical Reasons to Lower Tuition:

The Bible, as a significant source of guidance and wisdom for many societies throughout history, offers valuable insights on the importance of education and its role in individual growth, community development, and God's kingdom. In this essay, we will explore why reducing college tuition fees is important from a biblical perspective by examining relevant verses that emphasize the value of knowledge, accessibility to education, and God's desire for an equitable society.

1. Proverbs 1:5 - "Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance"

This verse highlights the importance of gaining knowledge and wisdom. By making higher education more affordable, we enable a greater number of individuals to pursue learning and wisdom, ultimately benefiting themselves and their communities.

2. Proverbs 9:1 - "Wisdom has built her house, she has hewn her seven pillars:"

This verse describes wisdom as a foundational element of a strong society. By investing in affordable education, we are fostering an environment where individuals can acquire the knowledge and skills necessary to build their communities and contribute to God's kingdom.

3. Proverbs 18:21 - "Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits."

This verse illustrates the importance of using words wisely. Affordable education enables students to develop strong communication skills, allowing them to effectively share their knowledge and ideas with others, ultimately leading to positive changes in their communities.

4. Proverbs 1:7 - "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction:"

This verse highlights the importance of revering God in the pursuit of knowledge. By making higher education accessible, we are providing opportunities for individuals to grow spiritually and intellectually while fostering a deeper connection with God.

5. Proverbs 12:4 - "An excellent wife, who can find? for her worth is far above rubies."

In this verse, the Bible extols the virtues of a good wife. Investing in affordable education for women not only empowers them but also benefits their families and communities by enabling them to contribute meaningfully to God's kingdom.

6. Proverbs 29:18 - "Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he:" (KJV)

This verse underscores the importance of having a vision for the future. By making higher education affordable, we are investing in the next generation's ability to create a positive and prosperous future for themselves and their communities.

7. Matthew 20:16 - "So the last will be first, and the first last."

This verse from the New Testament emphasizes the importance of providing opportunities to those who might otherwise be overlooked. By reducing college tuition fees, we can create a more equitable society where individuals from all backgrounds have access to higher education, including theological education for those who wish, and the opportunity to pursue their dreams.

TLDR: Reducing college tuition fees is essential for creating a strong, knowledgeable, and equitable society that aligns with biblical principles. By examining relevant verses from the Bible, we can appreciate the importance of education in individual growth, community development, and God's kingdom. Providing affordable higher education opportunities is a tangible way to invest in our future and ensure that everyone has the chance to build their lives upon a foundation of knowledge and wisdom.