As believers we have duty to contend for the faith

[Saint Steven]

It says in Christ all will be made alive that is all who are in Christ will be made alive if they are truly in Christ which bible says those who are Christs have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. By faith such sins are crucified we must continue to live by faith. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit.

I think it is not fair that we don’t have free will so I don’t think we necessarily must sin but we inherit the consequences of his sin which is death because of our nature only the original sin is in us so I should say

It is because Adam sinned and we also inherited the fallen nature and the original sin consequences and because we all sinned we all will die if not for Christ coming as we took Adam nature we must have Christ nature to be in Him so that we never die

Here's another scripture that clarifies the point even further. Again the comparison is between what Adam did and what Christ did. Humankind is referred to as "all" in verse 18 and as "the many" in verse 19. (THE many)

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Saint Steven]

... I am thinking perhaps people can be saved after death but they will have to freely repent...

I picked this up from your OP. (opening post)

Why would we assume that the afterlife will have the same spiritual dynamics as this earthly life? What does repentance (turning away) mean in the afterlife?

There is a case to be made for a confession (acknowledgement) of Christ as Lord. The definition of "acknowledge" at the bottom of this post supports what you are saying about "freely".

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

 

[mikeforjesus]

No, that's not what it says.

1 Corinthians 15:22 explained by Public Hermit

This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.

If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.

The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.

Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.

But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).

Therefore, all means all in both instances.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

You have to look at context it does mean all people in Christ as next verse says who it applies to which is faithful believers who are the harvest of the first fruits harvest only applies to those who are faithful believers as it says those who are Christ’s at His coming.

It is the only valid interpretation as you have to look at whole bible which many places no doubt speak of hell and book of Corinthians also says do not be deceived the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God there is no harm of deception really if they can be saved later. No one would reasonably think while believing everyone is saved that God would allow wicked people to go to heaven without repenting but they were believing that everyone would be saved therefore Paul was saying not all would be saved if Paul taught all would be saved if it was everyone was saved he would not be concerned if they did not heed his warning if they are deceived if they did believe being wicked that they could be saved immediately as they deserve judgment to think that.


it is what it means as it explains only the heavenly people will bear the image of Christ he says for those who are heavenly

1 Corinthians 15:47-49
47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Also next verse shows corruption can not inherit incorruption you have to be changed first

It explains further the meaning of death being destroyed it is only of believers who become incorruptible that to them it is said death where is your sting hades where is your victory the victory over death is said to be completed already when believers put on incorruption

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

1 Corinthians 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

As in the firstfruits offered to God, the Jews were assured of God’s blessing on the whole harvest; so by the resurrection of Christ, our resurrection is insured.” (Trapp)

 

[Saint Steven]

You have to look at context it does mean all people in Christ as next verse says who it applies to which is faithful believers who are the harvest of the first fruits harvest only apples to those who are faithful believers as it says those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Yes context, but let's open up the context even further.
All will be made alive, but each in turn. There is an order to this.
The last enemy to be destroyed is death. (the consequence for sin)

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

 

[mikeforjesus]

And I have shown you that last enemy destroyed is for overcoming believers only. There will be many destroyed first but at judgement believers who are accounted worthy as Jesus says for resurrection are those saved. They will not automatically be saved as they have many sins but bible says that there will be tree of life to have life when in heaven to remove sins and leaves for healing of nations of those who are saved. Bible says not to keep talking to those who speak heresies says their mouth must be stopped as it can harm others for not making response in time and people probably not responding to you as you can present new things for people to respond to which they can but it might not be in time heresy could be spread.

1 Peter 4:5-6
3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness,revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.
4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


It says there those who sinned spoke evil of those who do not sin it would be because they judge those sins as being evil and worthy of judgment. St Peter says they will give account before God who will judge the living and the dead and God will judge the living and the dead the gospel was preached to all that they may be judged by men so they may be saved now otherwise there would be no need to preach. Everyone knows and can preach sin is evil but if it is not absolutely punished they would not need to hear people preach.


1 Peter 4:17-19
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now “If the righteous one is scarcely saved,Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.


1 Peter 4:17-19 shows that the fate of those who do not obey the gospel is not optimistic or he would not be concerned if they will be saved later.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I think that is true as if you have faith you will seek to contend for it to prove to others so that others can believe it is the truth.

I don’t know what happened to omega post it was before mine asking a question

 

[Saint Steven]

... There will be many destroyed first but at judgement believers who are accounted worthy as Jesus says for resurrection are those saved. ...

So, you are an Annihilationist then?

 

[Saint Steven]

They will not automatically be saved as they have many sins but bible says that there will be tree of life to have life when in heaven to remove sins and leaves for healing of nations of those who are saved.

How can there be healing of the nations if most of them are not even there?

 

[mikeforjesus]

... There will be many destroyed first but at judgement believers who are accounted worthy as Jesus says for resurrection are those saved. ...

So, you are an Annihilationist then?

No they are already destroyed to go to hell but death is destroyed for believers

 

[mikeforjesus]

They will not automatically be saved as they have many sins but bible says that there will be tree of life to have life when in heaven to remove sins and leaves for healing of nations of those who are saved.

How can there be healing of the nations if most of them are not even there?

healing for the nations who are saved that they may become more knowledgeable of what is good and not bad that is tree of life that they may no longer sin

 

[Saint Steven]

No they are already destroyed to go to hell but death is destroyed for believers

Why only for believers? Death is described as the last enemy. If death still exists for unbelievers, then it was NOT destroyed, obviously. It leaves the problem without complete resolution. (for all eternity)

 

[mikeforjesus]

It was destroyed as believers died and that is the last enemy that must be dealt with after punishing those who are not saved people are still in state of death which can not be destroyed except with the tree of life to make them have understanding to stop sinning so they can have the life they are supposed to have in heaven to be recovered from death and not to die anymore.

 

[Saint Steven]

It was destroyed as believers died and that is the last enemy that must be dealt with after punishing those who are not saved people are still in state of death which can not be destroyed except with the tree of life to make them have understanding to stop sinning so they can have the life they are supposed to have in heaven to be recovered from death and not to die anymore.

I don't think I ever heard back from you about this scripture which agrees with my reading of 1 Corinthians 15:22

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I did not reply back as I believe that is clear enough it says many not all be made righteous and you know what I believe and you seem to want to believe your own interpretation. Also I believe that is probably not an accurate translation the NKJV says below it says free gift leads to justification of life and it shows that the justification to life is happening because of the many that will be made righteous and by saying many it shows not all can be made righteous. There can be no justification except they become righteous justification can only happen by believing.


Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

 

[Saint Steven]

... by saying many it shows not all can be made righteous. ...

It says THE many in both cases. Not "many". The same comparative group. How many were made sinners by the disobedience of the one man? (all) How many will be made righteous by the obedience of the one man? (all) The many = all

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[mikeforjesus]

I had to unfriend a dear friend because I need to to defend the faith as it seems by being friends it does not encourage to preach truth and to spread false teaching and by not encouraging person to preach truth I would help one down wrong path to harm himself and I have responsibility as Christian to defend the faith.

 

[Saint Steven]

Matthew 9:10-12 NIV
While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Yes he spent time with them to preach to them because they did not hear but He did not stay when they did not receive His words as we also know as St. Paul says a man who teaches what is false speak to him one or two times and if he does not turn avoid him.

 

[Der Alte]

* * *

It says THE many in both cases. Not "many". The same comparative group. How many were made sinners by the disobedience of the one man? (all) How many will be made righteous by the obedience of the one man? (all) The many = all

Romans 5:18-19

Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Paul used the word " πολλοι/polloi"/"many," 71 times.
Paul used the word "πας/pas"/"all," 375 times
When Paul wanted to say “all” he used "pas," not "polloi"/”many.”
Paul used “oi polloi”/”the many” 12 times where it clearly does not mean "all."
Romans 12:5, Romans 15:22-23, Romans 16:2,1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 10:33, 2 Corinthians 2:17, 2 Corinthians 8:15, Ephesians 2:4, Colossians 4:13, 1 Timothy 3:13
In one verse 1 Cor 10:33 Paul used “the many,” once, and “all,” twice, in the same verse.

1 Corinthians 10:33
33 Even as I please all [παντα] men in all [πασιν] things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many [των πολλων], that they may be saved.​

Paul certainly did not please every person alive during his lifetime.
Paul certainly did not literally please all men in literally all things.
"the profit of the many that they may be saved." The word translated "may be saved" is a subjunctive which is the mood of possibility/potentiality. It may or may not happen.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Also now I understand when it says when I restore Sodom to its former estate then I will restore you to your former estate it means when God restores people in nations who followed the sins exactly as Sodom the people who remain who are just like Sodom as it can’t refer to those same people as they do not exist on earth anymore and it refers to what will happen on this earth so can’t happen later as it also says when I restore Samaria to her former estate as some people still live like the Samaritans mixing pagan practices in their life with their worship to God.

As it says when I bring back the captives of Sodom and captives of Samaria I will bring back your captivity so it seems to mean their captivity from God because of their sin.

Also it mentions Jerusalem being daughter of the nations when it says Jerusalem is daughter of nation it means being taught by another nation to do evil saying your mother was a Hittite and your father is an Amorite. So it refers to characteristic of people lifestyle Jerusalem had done worse than all of them in time past and did not accept Jesus the Lord when He came who was the cornerstone of their faith which the prophets had taught the law to priests and people before when they did and which they wrote of so had been rejected and only will many be restored that is all Israel when other people repent and accept the Lord Jesus when God brings many people who were practising sin in nations to God which He has done but not fully done yet to bring more not as though they need to come first but to use them to convict others of the truth they rejected when more are given favour and repent it helps them to see the truth better and convict more to repent.

Ezekiel 16:45-46
45 You are your mother’s daughter, loathing husband and children; and you are the sister of your sisters, who loathed their husbands and children; your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite.
46 “Your elder sister is Samaria, who dwells with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who dwells to the south of you, is Sodom and her daughters.