Discussion Apostolic Power - what is it? What does it look like?

[hislegacy]

Definitions?

I have heard the term "Apostolic Power" used a number of time over the last 35 years or so.

I thought this would be a good discussion to have.

1. What is it?
2. What does it look like in real life?
3. Was it only for the 12?
4. Did the 84 other Apostles in the New Testament operate in it?
5. Is there a modern day Apostle flowing in this power?

Let's do our best to be kind to one another - tender hearted

 

[HTacianas]

Definitions?

I have heard the term "Apostolic Power" used a number of time over the last 35 years or so.

I thought this would be a good discussion to have.

1. What is it?
2. What does it look like in real life?
3. Was it only for the 12?
4. Did the 84 other Apostles in the New Testament operate in it?
5. Is there a modern day Apostle flowing in this power?

Let's do our best to be kind to one another - tender hearted

An example of Apostolic power can be found in Acts 8 beginning at verse 5. Philip the deacon went to Samaria performing miracles that caused a lot of people to believe. Philip then baptized them in water. Word was sent to the Apostles and John and Peter were sent to the men of Samaria to baptize them with the Holy Spirit. Conveying the Holy Spirit is an example of Apostolic power. That was the power Simon Magus offered to pay the Apostles for if they would give him that power also.

There are those who have that power today. They are the successors to the Apostles. It is by their authority that priests baptize and convey the Holy Spirit. Timothy was one such successor:

1Ti 4:14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.

Timothy received Apostolic power through the laying on of hands of the elders. That is the gift Simon Magus offered to pay for.

 

[hislegacy]

An example of Apostolic power can be found in Acts 8 beginning at verse 5. Philip the deacon went to Samaria performing miracles that caused a lot of people to believe. Philip then baptized them in water. Word was sent to the Apostles and John and Peter were sent to the men of Samaria to baptize them with the Holy Spirit. Conveying the Holy Spirit is an example of Apostolic power. That was the power Simon Magus offered to pay the Apostles for if they would give him that power also.

There are those who have that power today. They are the successors to the Apostles. It is by their authority that priests baptize and convey the Holy Spirit. Timothy was one such successor:

1Ti 4:14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.

Timothy received Apostolic power through the laying on of hands of the elders. That is the gift Simon Magus offered to pay for.

Interesting that the Deacons were performing miracles! I think we need Deacons like that today.

Conveying the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands happens all the time. Notice the verse you cited equate it to elders - not Apostles. While true Apostles are elders in churches, not all elders in churches are Apostles.

 

[HTacianas]

Interesting that the Deacons were performing miracles! I think we need Deacons like that today.

Conveying the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands happens all the time. Notice the verse you cited equate it to elders - not Apostles. While true Apostles are elders in churches, not all elders in churches are Apostles.

The laying on of hands is not only for conveying the Holy Spirit. When someone is chosen for a particular mission they have hands laid on them. See Acts 6:3-6, 13:1-3.

 

[hislegacy]

The laying on of hands is not only for conveying the Holy Spirit. When someone is chosen for a particular mission they have hands laid on them. See Acts 6:3-6, 13:1-3.

Absolutely agree but every week across this nation people have hands laid on them and do receive the Holy Spirit at the hands of those who are not Apostles.

If it is an example of Apostolic Power, then it has passed to many

 

[sandman]

God is the prime mover …not man

Man believes the Word or revelation from God and with faith (believing) he acts upon the Word or revelation …God then brings it to pass.

There is no power in hands or oil… garments or shadows …it is believing action, and God brings it to pass according to His Word or revelation.

The laying on of hands or dousing someone with Crisco is/should be done by revelation. When ministering to someone I generally take their hand or put my hand on their shoulder to make a personal connection…..but there have been times when God tells me ….NO….generally for two reasons either it makes them uncomfortable or they have a devil spirit…

 

[hislegacy]

God is the prime mover …not man

Man believes the Word or revelation from God and with faith (believing) he acts upon the Word or revelation …God then brings it to pass.

There is no power in hands or oil… garments or shadows …it is believing action, and God brings it to pass according to His Word or revelation.

The laying on of hands or dousing someone with Crisco is/should be done by revelation. When ministering to someone I generally take their hand or put my hand on their shoulder to make a personal connection…..but there have been times when God tells me ….NO….generally for two reasons either it makes them uncomfortable or they have a devil spirit…

What is Apostolic Power in your opinion -

 

[sandman]

What is Apostolic Power in your opinion -

That is a good question I don’t know if I have ever heard the expression. I have seen people use the premise when attempting the nullify the manifestation of the spirit in 1Co 12:8-10, by stating it was only available to the A-team (and ceased with them) ….which is an absurd argument…But that is possibly the only connection to apostolic power that I have.
I thought possibly it was connected to the (RC’s) Apostolic succession (which is another shadow boxing event that holds no water)…. But I don’t think so.
In either of those situations it is a man contrived adaptation that is not supported in the Word of God. In one case it is bragging rights (of which the spirit of God within me… gives me greater) and the other case, if I understand it correctly (not sure I do), it seems to be a point to base a fruitless argument.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Paul speaks of the "signs of an apostle."

2 Corinthians 12:12 KJV
12. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

I understand that each ministry has gifts that are associated with it.
I read 1 Corin 12:

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 KJV
4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

So it appears that God initiates an operation (Greek - "Work"). Jesus (as Lord) places ministers (administrations) to accomplish the Work. And the Holy Spirit enables the ministries with those associated gifts to fulfill their calling.
Romans 12:6 KJV
6. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

The "grace" here means the ministry calling. This is a theme in Paul's writings concerning his ministry. Ephesians 3 :7 is a good example:

Ephesians 3:7 KJV
7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

You, like Paul and his Apostle calling, have signs that follow your calling. Your ministry is called a "grace gift" = Charisma.

The grace gifts of an apostle are essentially all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He/she is loaded for bear!

 

[hislegacy]

The grace gifts of an apostle are essentially all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He/she is loaded for bear!

I have never found proof that the Apostles operated in all the gifts. Interesting.

 

[jiminpa]

I don't see it in the Bible. Apostleship seems to be a calling independent of specific gifts, from what I see in scripture. An apostle should also have gifts of the Spirit, but I don't see a specific power associated. Paul seemed to feel that the Corinthians needed him to establish his authority, (not most of them in the second letter), and so was using his giftings to remind some of them that he had the authority to correct them, and it would be unwise to challenge his place.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have never found proof that the Apostles operated in all the gifts. Interesting.

I suppose the most convincing verse concerning the gifts of an apostle is this statement about Jesus, who as an apostle.

Hebrews 3:1 KJV
1. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

But I can see some may not go that far.

 

[hislegacy]

I suppose the most convincing verse concerning the gifts of an apostle is this statement about Jesus, who as an apostle.

Hebrews 3:1 KJV
1. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

But I can see some may not go that far.

FYI - Jesus never used the gifts of Tongues nor interpretation of tongues.

Kinda interesting.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

FYI - Jesus never used the gifts of Tongues nor interpretation of tongues.

Kinda interesting.

I do believe that Jesus used speaking in tongues when he raised Lazarus.

John 11:32-44 KJV
32. Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33. When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34. And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35. Jesus wept.
36. Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37. And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38. Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39. Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41. Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43. And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

I believe that when Jesus groaned he was praying in intercessory tongues.
When He said "Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me" He was referring to His groaning in His spirit;. He gives the explanation in the next verse so the people would understand what was going on.
When He said "Lazarus come out" he was literally speaking to Lazarus who had already been raised (the Father had "heard" His tongues prayer and done it). Laz was just bumping around the inside of the tomb, probably wondering what was going on. Jesus had to yell so that he would hear him. I imagine Laz had some interesting stories about what happened for those four days and four nights.

 

[hislegacy]

Sorry, we will have to disagree -

the Greek word for groan is transliterated embrimaomai - literally - to have indignation on, i.e. (transitively) to blame, (intransitively) to sigh with chagrin,​

​

it is the same word found in Matthew 9:30 that is translated warned -​

​

It is a show of exasperation, not and indicator of speech.​

​

Also note that the word "spirit" in vs 33 is pneuma = it can mean Holy Spirit, but it also means human spirit, which is why the translators did not capitalize it.​

 

[Techo]

Firstly Apostleship is not a Gift of the Spirit like Miracles, Prophecy or Healing. It is a order within the administration of the Church as shown in Ephesians.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

From Strongs the meaning (or one of them anyway) of Apostle is 'ambassador for the Gospel'. The other ministries mentioned in Ephesians are pretty obvious and can seen to be be a part of growing and developing a fellowship. Apostle is one who is sent out. This is seen in Acts where Barnabas and Paul were sent out from Antioch by the Prophets and Teachers there under the instructions of the Holy Spirit.

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

They traveled to many towns and to bring them the Gospel and established Churches wherever they went. The role of an Apostle within a local congregation is something that may need further exegesis but probably involves setting structure in place within the order of fellowship and study of the Word of God (as was shown in Acts).

Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
Act 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Act 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

Sorry... but I've forgotten a lot of the teaching about Apostles etc that I received at Church years ago. Watchman Nee, I think, covers a bit of it in his book 'The Normal Christian Church Life' and there is probably some book that the teachers in my fellowship have written that also covers it (but it'd take ages to go through them to find it).

 

[Blade]

The 12? One that is sent? As in Matt, Mark, Luke, John, NT

 

[hislegacy]

The 12? One that is sent? As in Matt, Mark, Luke, John, NT

What about the 70 others that were sent? Luke 10

Same commission - same healings - same dead being raised.

 

[hislegacy]

Let's approach it this way - what "power" did the Apostles have that you and I as Spirit filled Believers do not have?

 

[Techo]

From The Normal Christian Church Life
Watchman Nee states:
"Of the classes of gifted men bestowed by the Lord upon His Church for its upbuilding, the apostle were quite different from the other three (i.e.Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors and Teachers... refered to on the previous page).They were specifically commissioned of God to found churches through the preaching of the Gospel, to bring revelation from God to His people, to give decisions in matters pertaining to doctrine and government, and to edify the saints and distribute the gifts..." P19 Para 4
"...It is immaterial to his office what personal gift an apostle has, but is essential to his office that he be sent of God". P20 Para 1

"The Evidence of Apostleship
... In 1 Cor 9:1-2, Paul states that apostleship has its credentials. "Th seal of my apostleship are ye in the Lord," he writes, as if to say, If God had not sent me to Corinth, then you would not be saved today, and there would be no church in your city..." P22 Para 3

Watchman Nee indicates that the 'Apostolic Power' is the power of God.
"... Wherever you have the commission of God, there you have the authority of God: wherever you have the authority of God , there you have the power of God: and wherever you have the power of God, there you have spiritual fruits..."P22 Para 3

I cannot quote that whole chapter but he covers Apostleship very comprehensively. I do not normally mark passages in the books I buy... in this section every page had something underlined (in pencil so it could be erased).