anyone have any insight?

[razzelflabben]

I agree that the very best counsel we can receive is from someone who is called and gifted by God. Someone who has already been through the ringer and found Dad on the other side. But these aren't really "searchable" traits. How can you tell that a counselor is equipped by God before you let them counsel you? So I was coming at this from a "consumer" point of view.

well, I have spent some time asking people to discuss how we can know what or who God is calling to a specific task, and it has been responded mostly with anger and nasty behavior, so I think this being an emotional thread, that would best be served for another discussion. My husband and I have, however, discovered 4 different biblical truths that would identify a man/woman/child that is called to a specific task....basically, what it boils down to, is that if we are focused on scripture, we can "search" out those traits. As to experience, that also is easily identifiable.

Oh, me too! You know that we all ask, "Why me?" or "Why my kid?" or "Why my husband?" And rivers of ink have been spilled on answering the question of why a good god allows suffering.

We have all kinds of tidy ways to answer this. We could say that we suffer because of sin, so that our suffering is somewhat within our own control. (Be good, good stuff happens.) But this flies in the face of what we actually see in real life and what we find in the Bible (the story of Job, the account of the man born blind (John 9:2-3)).

Or we could say that life is just one big test. But, in that scenario, God ends up being a big sadist - pulling the legs off of flies and rewarding those who can tolerate the most pain. This one is closer to life as we experience it, but also ignores the Bible. (God is Love, but if Love means inflicting as much pain as possible, then he can keep his love.)

Or we could say that God allows people to suffer just as parents allow their children to suffer sometimes, for educational purposes. After all, those kids are gonna face a big, bad world someday and they need to know how to endure it. But there is a looming question here, too, for anyone who believes that God Himself went through the pain of losing a wife (Israel) and losing a Son (by unjust execution, no less). Why does God suffer?

This is the question that took over my brain after my son died. Why would God choose to go through this? I had no choice in the matter, but God certainly did. He could have made a universe that was all sunshine and roses for Himself (even if not for everyone else), but He deliberately chose not to. Who the hell would do that? And then I realized that I was actually paying lip service to a God who saw a convicted, proudly unrepentant murderer on death row, and opted to send His own son to the electric chair in that guy's place. Now that's crazy.

Who would think that this was a good idea? What religion or philosophy or ethics committee would endorse such nonsense? And yet, there it is. The God that I had been learning about since Sunday school was either unbelievably evil or unbelievably good. Nothin' lukewarm about a God like this. So I had to make a choice. I could either bail out on such a ridiculous God, or I could follow this crazy love right down the rabbit hole. I have chosen door number two.

It seems that most people who face a tragedy such as the loss of a child or spouse, or maybe something like rape, choose one of two things, 1. they cling to God and say, now what? or 2. they blame God, running away in anger and displeasure...never seeing the Love that is hidden in the depths of that tragedy. How wonderful to hear you have found that Love, and how blessed I am to have you share that truth and beauty with me.

 

[seeingeyes]

My husband and I have, however, discovered 4 different biblical truths that would identify a man/woman/child that is called to a specific task....basically, what it boils down to, is that if we are focused on scripture, we can "search" out those traits.

I have subjected you to at least one post in standard essay form, so please, feel free to hit me with your bullet points. I would love to hear what you guys came up with.

I used to believe that reasoning stood far above the messiness of mere emotion. I believed that if we had our theological ducks in a row, our emotions would get in line. Hah! Wow, yeah, Dad gave that greek philosophy the torch.

I could tell even from your very first post that you are my sister in Christ, so there is no reason that you can't write an eloquent, organized post of biblical truths, and then follow it up later with a post full of gibberish groans that only the Spirit can translate. I'll love you anyway.

 

[razzelflabben]

I have subjected you to at least one post in standard essay form, so please, feel free to hit me with your bullet points. I would love to hear what you guys came up with.

I used to believe that reasoning stood far above the messiness of mere emotion. I believed that if we had our theological ducks in a row, our emotions would get in line. Hah! Wow, yeah, Dad gave that greek philosophy the torch.

I could tell even from your very first post that you are my sister in Christ, so there is no reason that you can't write an eloquent, organized post of biblical truths, and then follow it up later with a post full of gibberish groans that only the Spirit can translate. I'll love you anyway.

Leaving soon to take our daughter to the Dr., so I will try to be brief as well as complete, I would love to have other peoples input, in fact, we totally love going deep into God. Our study on Love has currently been about 5 years, we are finishing the second book set and have 7 more sets planned before getting into some fun stuff with it. The deeper the better. (which scares a lot of people off In fact, we almost lost a long time friendship just because we wanted to discuss how to know what God is calling you to). The following is what we have discovered in God's word about who and what we are called to...

1. Giftedness is the first thing we identified. The person called by God to do anything specific, is gifted, that is equipped for the job at hand. Our local church body has talked a lot about spiritual gifts and one thing is clear, there is a difference between a talent and a gift (more differences later). I call it an aroma, taken from II Corinthians 2:15. It doesn't mean you can't learn anything about the task, but rather it is about the God given gift to do the task. (study on gifts of the Spirit, it would include but not be limited to qualifications for jobs like shepherd, and gifts such as teaching and preaching)

2. One of the "signs" of what is and is not a gift, is whether or not the person does the task without earthly motivation. Think about Paul, he talked about being compelled to preach the gospel, with or without pay, Paul preached because that is what God called him to do. He couldn't escape it. The person who does the task with or without pay is showing signs of being called by God. Be weary of anyone who serves for money, not for Love of the Lord. This does not mean they should not be paid, for scripture is clear that they are earning their pay, but they do it with or without pay. Example: we have an associate pastor friend that didn't do any of the tasks of associate pastor, including but not limited to attending all services that he could attend, visiting the sick, attending funerals, teaching youth, etc. until he was hired as associate...this is someone who is serving for money, not for the calling God has placed on his life.

3. Opportunity is given to those who are called. Look at it this way, God isn't gonna equip you and call you, then not allow you to do the thing. This is especially important for people who have convinced themselves that they want to be in full time ministry or something similar to that. Now this does not mean that the opportunity has to be one of pay, but rather it is an opportunity to serve God in this capacity without forcing your way into the position. This idea and concept comes from the biblical teaching about God moving mountains, there is also a passage in Isaiah (46:10 or 11 if memory serves) that talks about God calling a bird of prey or a man from a far off country to fulfill His plan.

4. Maybe the hardest of the four to deal with is the fruit that we see. Fruit meaning results of the ministry God has called us to. Scripture teaches us that He is the one who grows the seed that is planted and watered (I Cor. 3:6) If God is the one who grows, then growing is one of the demonstrations of His approving hand. If the ministry we are involved in is stagnant for declining, we would be well served to examine and reexamine as to why.

Well, those are the 4 we identified, all of which would be measurable on some level with a counselor, pastor, teacher, nurse, etc. who claim to be serving the Lord through calling and not through self centered desire. (Self centered being in opposition to Biblical Love)

Hope that is "eloquent" enough... my own mind is a jumble now, with missing our son, the holiday and "worry" over our daughter...we are trusting it is nothing serious and praying our trust is not misplaced. At least our eldest is home from the military and should be home for good...wish he could be here for Christmas day, but we will take what we can get, Fri. afternoon...yeah.

 

[seeingeyes]

First of all,
Dad in heaven, please stand right next to razz and her husband and her daughter. Make your presence obvious to them and please don't give them more than they can handle. Give them all your healing and your rest and your crazy love. Amen!


As for the holidays, I was ready to move to afganistan and grow fat and happy in my burka before having to face christmas. But I hereby give you permission to cancel all holiday events that aren't directly for your daughter's benefit. Your church friends, your in-laws, your neighbors will just have to get over it if you won't come to dinner.


And lastly, about the gifts:

2. One of the "signs" of what is and is not a gift, is whether or not the person does the task without earthly motivation.

I am going to bring up some counterpoints, but only so you can cement this idea up a bit. No drama, I promise.

Number 2 I fully agree with. However, it is difficult (if not impossible) to determine another person's intentions. So I could use number 2 to gauge my own gifts, but it would be hard to gauge someone else's gifts with it.

For example, the head pastor at my church is pretty well paid (it's a big church - his house is much bigger than mine). Now, as you said, the fact that he is paid doesn't necessarily mean that he is in it for the money. And I don't believe that he is. But the only way to test his motivations would be to stop paying him, and see if he sticks around. I don't think that would go over very well. lol

And with the role of pastor also comes church authority and a good deal of social power, so we would have to find a way to remove those as well...and I can't think of anything short of revolution that would accomplish that.

So for any paid ministry, we can never completely rule out earthly motivations in others.

3. Opportunity is given to those who are called. Look at it this way, God isn't gonna equip you and call you, then not allow you to do the thing. This is especially important for people who have convinced themselves that they want to be in full time ministry or something similar to that.

4. Maybe the hardest of the four to deal with is the fruit that we see. Fruit meaning results of the ministry God has called us to. Scripture teaches us that He is the one who grows the seed that is planted and watered (I Cor. 3:6) If God is the one who grows, then growing is one of the demonstrations of His approving hand. If the ministry we are involved in is stagnant for declining, we would be well served to examine and reexamine as to why.

Numbers 3 and 4 I also fully agree with. But I think that God's definition of opportunity and fruit can be vastly different than our own. For example, for three years Jesus had a full-time ministry. But from the point of view of the religious leaders of his time, it was a failure, because the only people who were interested in following him around were hookers and lepers and thieves and drunks. I think that they could have made a valid case that God did not open up sufficient opportunity for Jesus's ministry (since only losers followed him around - he would have seemed more like some cult leader to them).

As for seeing fruit, this one can also be tricky to gauge. What was the fruit of Jeremiah's ministry? He got thrown in a hole! At least Elijah rounded up a few converts before the king tried to have him killed. Sometimes only God can see the fruit.


One fantastic book I can recommend is Fixing Abraham by Chris Tiegreen. It's a quick but fascinating thought experiment about how we would treat the prophets if they showed up today. Like, if there was a guy who laid on one side every day for three years outside of your city hall, would you think he was sent by God? Or would you think he is a loony? I could feel my mind creaking open while I read it.

 

[razzelflabben]

First of all,
Dad in heaven, please stand right next to razz and her husband and her daughter. Make your presence obvious to them and please don't give them more than they can handle. Give them all your healing and your rest and your crazy love. Amen!

thanks, we are going for test tomorrow...

As for the holidays, I was ready to move to afganistan and grow fat and happy in my burka before having to face christmas. But I hereby give you permission to cancel all holiday events that aren't directly for your daughter's benefit. Your church friends, your in-laws, your neighbors will just have to get over it if you won't come to dinner.

We still have 3 kids at home, so cancelling Christmas isn't gonna happen. Last year, we started a new "tradition" in which we had dinner at the church for anyone that was without family for Christmas day...this year I want to even cancel that, but I think it will be good in the end, gets our mind off our pain and onto others that have pains of their own. Really anxious for our eldest to be here, he was away too many years, (military) it's always good to have him home. When our son died, the eldest was in Calif. preparing to go to Afganistan. We took him to the airport the morning after the funeral and watched him go off to war...can't even tell you what that does to a mother's heart when you bury one son, and watch the other leave for war.

And lastly, about the gifts:


I am going to bring up some counterpoints, but only so you can cement this idea up a bit. No drama, I promise.

yeah...I've been anxious for someone to get involved in discussion...yeah, if I sound short, it isn't the discussion, it's other stuff, I promise...I love questions and exploring the answers...

Number 2 I fully agree with. However, it is difficult (if not impossible) to determine another person's intentions. So I could use number 2 to gauge my own gifts, but it would be hard to gauge someone else's gifts with it.

If the person wouldn't do it without pay, it's pretty easy to know. For example, let's take counseling since that is the one that started the discussion. Let's say I am desperately in need of counseling but can't afford it. If the counselor says, sorry, can't help unless you pay me X, it's pretty easy to see that the motive is in some way money. When I was growing up, there was an artist by the name of Keith Greene, (don't know if you know of him or not) He had a whole ministry that I won't go into all the details of. What he did to support it, was to allow everyone, whether they had the funds or not, to get his records, tracts, help out at the office, etc. IOW's he didn't do anything for the money and name, he did it all to promote the living God and it was bold and obvious. Even my husband and I, as we are nearing the point of seminars and books sales to teach about Biblical Love, refuse to make it about money. When we give someone a book, we don't ask for money to cover the cost much less to cover our "salaries" instead, we tell people, whatever God lays on your heart. In fact, scripture tells us to not worry about tomorrow but instead to trust God with it. Paul himself taught that where pay was God's plan, pay wasn't necessary, he would do the work even if there was no earthly pay. Unfortunately that is the exception today, not the rule. To identify that person, is merely an issue of what they need in order to do the job. If they won't do the job without pay, it's a pretty good bet they do it for the pay. A friend said that his father always told him, "if you can pay a man to preach the word, you can pay him not to preach". I guess the point is that where it isn't an exact science, it is testable. With the discernment of the HS there wouldn't be any doubt.

For example, the head pastor at my church is pretty well paid (it's a big church - his house is much bigger than mine). Now, as you said, the fact that he is paid doesn't necessarily mean that he is in it for the money. And I don't believe that he is. But the only way to test his motivations would be to stop paying him, and see if he sticks around. I don't think that would go over very well. lol

there are other ways to test...for example, what is the history before he was paid? Is he paid for every extra thing he does and charge accordingly, for example, when our son died, our pastor refused to accept pay for the funeral because he knew we couldn't afford it. He definitely earned pay for the extra, but that isn't why he did the service. Pastors get asked to do extras all the time. If your pastor only does the extras if he gains from them, it is a good indication that he is doing the job with wrong motive. We can't be sure without the discernment of HS.

And with the role of pastor also comes church authority and a good deal of social power, so we would have to find a way to remove those as well...and I can't think of anything short of revolution that would accomplish that.

actually, scripture warns that the young believer who becomes a pastor, can easily become conceited, which is why the pastor cannot be a new believer, so seems to me that is covered in the first one, that is dealing with qualifications as well as giftedness.

So for any paid ministry, we can never completely rule out earthly motivations in others.

which is why we 1. examine ourselves and 2. rely on the discernment of the HS.

Numbers 3 and 4 I also fully agree with. But I think that God's definition of opportunity and fruit can be vastly different than our own. For example, for three years Jesus had a full-time ministry. But from the point of view of the religious leaders of his time, it was a failure, because the only people who were interested in following him around were hookers and lepers and thieves and drunks. I think that they could have made a valid case that God did not open up sufficient opportunity for Jesus's ministry (since only losers followed him around - he would have seemed more like some cult leader to them).

so how did Jesus respond to them...we aren't still living in the OT, we can behave like the religious leaders of the day, but God would respond to us the same way He responded to the religious leaders of the day, would He not?...

As for seeing fruit, this one can also be tricky to gauge. What was the fruit of Jeremiah's ministry? He got thrown in a hole! At least Elijah rounded up a few converts before the king tried to have him killed. Sometimes only God can see the fruit.

Let me tell you about the first church my husband pastored...on the first sermon as pastor, he preached on the good samaritan, answering the question that Jesus was answering with the story. The people got so angry that they threatened his job. When he didn't buckle, they threatened me, when that didn't gain them what they wanted, they threatened our children. When that didn't work, they fired him. Was it a fruitful ministry? By man's standard, not so much, by God's standard, without doubt. They heard the word and responded to it, they didn't respond to us, they responded to the word. You see, false motive has a way of making it about self (goes back to Love) and in that, the response is about the individual. When the response is about God, we know that we are not in the way of the people seeing God. What does scripture tell us? John 3:30 He must become greater; I must become less., also read the end of II Corinthians 2...15 For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other, an aroma that brings life. And who is equal to such a task? 17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

One fantastic book I can recommend is Fixing Abraham by Chris Tiegreen. It's a quick but fascinating thought experiment about how we would treat the prophets if they showed up today. Like, if there was a guy who laid on one side every day for three years outside of your city hall, would you think he was sent by God? Or would you think he is a loony? I could feel my mind creaking open while I read it.

I would have to know more about him, but thanks, I'll look for the book and really am enjoying the discussion. It helps to stay engaged in deeper things.

 

[seeingeyes]

Well, if the points you posted are guidelines for discernment (as opposed to a hard and fast formula) then I think it's perfect. I'm not sure why others considered this list controversial...bad day, maybe? I mean, the stuff about a good tree bearing good fruit is straight out of the mouth of Jesus - not much wiggle room there for a professed christian. But, who knows?


I have no idea how many sermons I've heard about the good samaritan in my lifetime. It's gotta be close to one hundred by now. But it wasn't until kinda recently that I understood who the samaritans actually were. They held the books of Moses sacred, but none of the rest. The Jews in Israel saw them as a sort of blasphemous half-breed.

When Jesus first told the parable, it wasn't the fuzzy "nice-people" story that we hear today. It was a deliberately offensive story to the original hearers. Jesus was basically telling them, "Even a heathen could be 'gooder' than you all are."

If you tell this parable with even a smidge of the original intent, you risk being run out on a rail! Hehehe


As a corollary to this, have you noticed that Jesus seems to spend as much time turning people away from following him, as he does inviting them along? (the rich young man, the low-blow samaritan story, the teaching on adultery). He wasn't making the Way easier for anyone to swallow! This stands in sharp contrast to our modern church-as-business model. Jesus had no use for the number of butts in the pew. He came for the hearts...not the backsides.

 

[razzelflabben]

Well, if the points you posted are guidelines for discernment (as opposed to a hard and fast formula) then I think it's perfect. I'm not sure why others considered this list controversial...bad day, maybe? I mean, the stuff about a good tree bearing good fruit is straight out of the mouth of Jesus - not much wiggle room there for a professed christian. But, who knows?

the sad thing is that we haven't gotten this far, just mentioning that we need to look at scripture to identify how we know what and who is called to a specific task, has so far sent all but two people into a fury, 1 is you and the other is a dear friend who is feeling beat up by someone who is not qualified for the job he has....I mean, if we could even get to the point of discussion what scripture says I would feel like we were making headway.

I have no idea how many sermons I've heard about the good samaritan in my lifetime. It's gotta be close to one hundred by now. But it wasn't until kinda recently that I understood who the samaritans actually were. They held the books of Moses sacred, but none of the rest. The Jews in Israel saw them as a sort of blasphemous half-breed.

yep

When Jesus first told the parable, it wasn't the fuzzy "nice-people" story that we hear today. It was a deliberately offensive story to the original hearers. Jesus was basically telling them, "Even a heathen could be 'gooder' than you all are."

If you tell this parable with even a smidge of the original intent, you risk being run out on a rail! Hehehe

what made it worse is that without knowing the history of the church, they had a bad history of not being loving to one another and making enemies out of each other. Calling them to Love even their enemies, was more challenging than we could have known at the time (interesting how God works)...the next church he pastored was similar, but in that one, two of the much older deacon children physically assaulted our two oldest boys in retaliation for sermons straight from scripture. We almost had to take out eldest to the ER over the incident. The boys took it like champs, we were so proud of them both. The children who beat up the boys for what my husband preached, weren't even told it was wrong, they weren't held in honor over it, but weren't even told it was wrong. Oh well, that is a much different story and a much different pain....

As a corollary to this, have you noticed that Jesus seems to spend as much time turning people away from following him, as he does inviting them along? (the rich young man, the low-blow samaritan story, the teaching on adultery). He wasn't making the Way easier for anyone to swallow! This stands in sharp contrast to our modern church-as-business model. Jesus had no use for the number of butts in the pew. He came for the hearts...not the backsides.

doing the same today, gets you in a lot of trouble, from all directions, it's a great comfort to know that our reward isn't of this world, but of the heavenly variety.

 

[seeingeyes]

I have found that since I've gotten this "crazy love" vibe about God, most of the christians that I know seem to think that I've started drinking the liberal kool-aid. lol

I now find that anytime I hear the phrase, "God loves you, but..." I can feel my soul cringe. It is God's kindness that leads us to repentance, not His stinginess, not the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell. But we are afraid to follow Him down that path.

We ask, "If I just love my enemies, won't they just think they can walk all over me? How will they ever know right from wrong if I don't push back?" But God says, "How will they ever know what my love looks like unless you show them? I've shown you how it's done, now get to work, kid?" Amen!

Now I have noticed that these same christians who recoil when I talk about an infinitely generous God, don't seem to mind at all when I bake them cupcakes or help them move or something. Which tells me that theological ducks be damned, the heart knows what it needs. It needs a God of love, it needs its brothers and sisters in love.

So I pray that God will gently lead them off the cliff of His grace. (That first step is a doozy!) And I will keep trying to do whatever work God sends my way. (Which will certainly not be preaching, I am much clearer in print than in person. lol)

 

[razzelflabben]

I have found that since I've gotten this "crazy love" vibe about God, most of the christians that I know seem to think that I've started drinking the liberal kool-aid. lol

I now find that anytime I hear the phrase, "God loves you, but..." I can feel my soul cringe. It is God's kindness that leads us to repentance, not His stinginess, not the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell. But we are afraid to follow Him down that path.

We ask, "If I just love my enemies, won't they just think they can walk all over me? How will they ever know right from wrong if I don't push back?" But God says, "How will they ever know what my love looks like unless you show them? I've shown you how it's done, now get to work, kid?" Amen!

Now I have noticed that these same christians who recoil when I talk about an infinitely generous God, don't seem to mind at all when I bake them cupcakes or help them move or something. Which tells me that theological ducks be damned, the heart knows what it needs. It needs a God of love, it needs its brothers and sisters in love.

So I pray that God will gently lead them off the cliff of His grace. (That first step is a doozy!) And I will keep trying to do whatever work God sends my way. (Which will certainly not be preaching, I am much clearer in print than in person. lol)

God knows us better than we know ourselves...and this is what He says of us....What a man desires is unfailing love; better to be poor than a liar. (Prov. 19:22)...have yet to find a man/woman/or child that didn't in their heart of hearts desire nothing more than unfailing Love. Unfortunately we don't always recognize that Love when we come face to face with it. Unfortunately we are usually so busy hurting and seeking attention for that pain to see that Love is there, that Love heals our wounds, and that Love is always the answer, cause Love never fails (I Cor. 13)

 

[razzelflabben]

Sometimes when I need to talk, I come here, and just say it...don't know if anyone will hear or care, but I say it none the less. In June, our son will have been gone from this world for 2 years. Every day our heart feels that brokenness, and everyday, we purpose to give it to God and live in the joy and peace that only He can give.

Last week, we got a call out of the blue, someone had found a cell phone with our home number listed as home, an old number for my husband under dad and my number listed as mom. When we picked up the phone, we discovered it to belong to the son we lost almost 2 years ago. The phone still had half battery life, was in great shape for having been found in a yard, in fact, usual wear and some dirt is all that is wrong with the phone. It was found in a yard in a small town close by but our son would have no reason to be there and being he had only recently gotten his drivers license wouldn't have been in that town or even that close to it. There is no evidence in the memory of the phone of anyone using or trying to use the phone other than our son.

My husband takes comfort in this, and I guess I can understand the comfort of knowing that God cares even about this, but along with that comfort, I feel violated, as if just when I feel like I can tolerate a day without him, I'm reminded of how much we lost that day in June. The boys (3 brothers) haven't said much, but our daughter struggles with it too. Is it just a girl thing that it bothers us? I don't know, I guess I just wanted to say how much I miss our son, I am thankful for the Joy and Peace of our God in the midst of all this loss and pain, but I miss him, and the phone just reminds me how much I miss him...I long to call him, to see what he is doing (he was suppose to be in college this year) to hear all the news, meet all the new friends. When life is rough with other issues like the last couple weeks, I long to reach out and touch him and know he is okay, just like I do with the other kids, but I can't, and the phone reminds me of that...stupid phone!

 

[seeingeyes]

Bah, I know what you mean. Those little reminders that someone is missing can really blindside you.

When my son died, I couldn't bear to look at his stuff, and I couldn't bear to get rid of it, either. So I immediately boxed everything up and stuck it in a deep dark corner of the house so I wouldn't have to look at it. Five years later, it's all still there.

But his damned belongings still keeps popping up. Toys of his that I handed down to my nephews years ago get returned. The train set that he picked out shows up at my mother's house at Christmas. This is the consumer's curse: we are forever haunted by the stuff our loved ones leave behind.

I find that it is easier to handle now than a couple of years ago. I still grieve for him, but I am no longer shocked by my grief. Grief used to hit me over the head with a sledgehammer...now it just taps me on the shoulder to remind me that it is still there.

Nevertheless! The God of love is still on His throne. And he knows exactly how it feels to lose a son. When you mourn, He mourns with you. He will not leave you alone.

And you don't have to pretend that that cell phone is a comfort to you just because it is a comfort to your husband. Perhaps this message was for him, and not for you. We all grieve so differently. Please don't judge yourself harshly if you would rather throw the phone out of a moving vehicle instead of praising God that it showed up. Your Dad knows your heart.

 

[razzelflabben]

Bah, I know what you mean. Those little reminders that someone is missing can really blindside you.

When my son died, I couldn't bear to look at his stuff, and I couldn't bear to get rid of it, either. So I immediately boxed everything up and stuck it in a deep dark corner of the house so I wouldn't have to look at it. Five years later, it's all still there.

But his damned belongings still keeps popping up. Toys of his that I handed down to my nephews years ago get returned. The train set that he picked out shows up at my mother's house at Christmas. This is the consumer's curse: we are forever haunted by the stuff our loved ones leave behind.

I find that it is easier to handle now than a couple of years ago. I still grieve for him, but I am no longer shocked by my grief. Grief used to hit me over the head with a sledgehammer...now it just taps me on the shoulder to remind me that it is still there.

Nevertheless! The God of love is still on His throne. And he knows exactly how it feels to lose a son. When you mourn, He mourns with you. He will not leave you alone.

And you don't have to pretend that that cell phone is a comfort to you just because it is a comfort to your husband. Perhaps this message was for him, and not for you. We all grieve so differently. Please don't judge yourself harshly if you would rather throw the phone out of a moving vehicle instead of praising God that it showed up. Your Dad knows your heart.

THanks, I find great comfort in knowing that someone understands, we have faced down so many that showed evil rather than grace and Love, kindness and understanding are a great comfort...May you find the peace you need in your struggle, strength and grace and joy where the world says there should be none.

 

[razzelflabben]

Job says that there are dreams and visions that haunt. Sat. night, just before mother's day, I had one such dream. In the dream, our son came to help, when we were done, I hugged him and told him I love him and miss him. He hugged me and said, I Love you, and mi...and then vanished. As hard as it was, it was a comfort on mothers day.

But graduations are coming fast. If anyone is reading this and doesn't know, our son died at a graduation party. The sister of the girl whose party we were at, is graduating this year. Two years after his death. I have been dreading it. But, we have to be there for this young gal, she is a special part of our family. So Sun. her mom talked to me about her understanding if we couldn't be there. God has infused our lives with understanding and living out the Love He has given us. Living in that Love, means we have to go, we have to be there for this one who is graduating. It will only happen if we keep our eyes on God and this friend, and keep our eyes off self and our own pain and grief. Something that in God I know we can do. In ourselves it is impossible.

After our sons death, I comforted the young woman whose home we were at, she wrote a college paper not long afterwards, about how much we had touched her life, that until that moment, in which I reached out to her, she never knew that that type of Love existed in this world. We need to give her sister the same gift. Please, if anyone is reading this, I would ask a prayer on our behalf, a prayer that God's Love would show through the pain and grief, that His Love would be evidenced, and that that day, will bring joy not sorrow, encouragement not pain. It's hard to take our eyes off self when the pain is so great, but in the power of the living God, nothing is impossible. Thanks

 

[seeingeyes]

Job says that there are dreams and visions that haunt. Sat. night, just before mother's day, I had one such dream. In the dream, our son came to help, when we were done, I hugged him and told him I love him and miss him. He hugged me and said, I Love you, and mi...and then vanished. As hard as it was, it was a comfort on mothers day.

But graduations are coming fast. If anyone is reading this and doesn't know, our son died at a graduation party. The sister of the girl whose party we were at, is graduating this year. Two years after his death. I have been dreading it. But, we have to be there for this young gal, she is a special part of our family. So Sun. her mom talked to me about her understanding if we couldn't be there. God has infused our lives with understanding and living out the Love He has given us. Living in that Love, means we have to go, we have to be there for this one who is graduating. It will only happen if we keep our eyes on God and this friend, and keep our eyes off self and our own pain and grief. Something that in God I know we can do. In ourselves it is impossible.

After our sons death, I comforted the young woman whose home we were at, she wrote a college paper not long afterwards, about how much we had touched her life, that until that moment, in which I reached out to her, she never knew that that type of Love existed in this world. We need to give her sister the same gift. Please, if anyone is reading this, I would ask a prayer on our behalf, a prayer that God's Love would show through the pain and grief, that His Love would be evidenced, and that that day, will bring joy not sorrow, encouragement not pain. It's hard to take our eyes off self when the pain is so great, but in the power of the living God, nothing is impossible. Thanks

Now that sign was for you.

You've made it through Thanksgiving, you've made it through Christmas, you've made it through Mother's Day. Twice. You can make it through this party, girl.

If you need a reason to go, other than Love (which I don't think you do), I'll give you a practical reason: You don't want to grow yourself a phobia for graduation parties.

I used to melt into a puddle of mess at the thought of driving through the neighborhood of the hospital where my son died. But the way the brain works is, the more you avoid something, the more your brain believes that you have a valid and horrible reason for avoiding it. You don't want to spend your life breaking out into anxiety every time you see "Congrats" balloons on a mailbox.

For me, I drove to that neighborhood, I had a horrible afternoon at some of my favorite places, and I kept driving back. Now when I go there, I just give that hospital a quick nod in memorial, and I can have a lovely time at my favorite places.

For you, you will go and have a horrible time at that party, and you will show love for this girl, and be happy about that at least. And you will go to the next grad party and the next and soon you will no longer feel like attacking every "Congrats" balloon with a fork.

So gird up your loins and party like a man!

I'm prayin' for you, sister.

 

[razzelflabben]

Now that sign was for you.

You've made it through Thanksgiving, you've made it through Christmas, you've made it through Mother's Day. Twice. You can make it through this party, girl.

If you need a reason to go, other than Love (which I don't think you do), I'll give you a practical reason: You don't want to grow yourself a phobia for graduation parties.

I used to melt into a puddle of mess at the thought of driving through the neighborhood of the hospital where my son died. But the way the brain works is, the more you avoid something, the more your brain believes that you have a valid and horrible reason for avoiding it. You don't want to spend your life breaking out into anxiety every time you see "Congrats" balloons on a mailbox.

For me, I drove to that neighborhood, I had a horrible afternoon at some of my favorite places, and I kept driving back. Now when I go there, I just give that hospital a quick nod in memorial, and I can have a lovely time at my favorite places.

For you, you will go and have a horrible time at that party, and you will show love for this girl, and be happy about that at least. And you will go to the next grad party and the next and soon you will no longer feel like attacking every "Congrats" balloon with a fork.

So gird up your loins and party like a man!

I'm prayin' for you, sister.

lol...party like a man...sister....

I can always count on you for encouraging words and wisdom, thanks...the one that took both my husband and I by surprise was the wedding of my husbands nephew, you see, about 6 years ago, we lost his oldest nephew in a car accident. When his brother (our nephew) got married, the emotional flood was beyond what we had prepared ourselves for...his sister is getting married in June as well...at least this time, we know to be prepared...it will be a rocky few months, but we have people like you to support us and people who love us, and for the most part, the three people that were trying to make everything worse, are either out of our lives, or at minimal at the moment...so God's strength...go God!!!!

 

[seeingeyes]

lol...party like a man...sister....

I can always count on you for encouraging words and wisdom, thanks...the one that took both my husband and I by surprise was the wedding of my husbands nephew, you see, about 6 years ago, we lost his oldest nephew in a car accident. When his brother (our nephew) got married, the emotional flood was beyond what we had prepared ourselves for...his sister is getting married in June as well...at least this time, we know to be prepared...it will be a rocky few months, but we have people like you to support us and people who love us, and for the most part, the three people that were trying to make everything worse, are either out of our lives, or at minimal at the moment...so God's strength...go God!!!!

Amen! He ain't done yet, but He's workin' on it.

 

[razzelflabben]

Well, the first hurdle of the season is crossed, and God did sustain. The day of the graduation party, we had a funeral, then graduation, then a sermon that we were not looking forward to (long story). We survived all three, and God was/is so very good. So much I could say about that day, but we will leave it there.

coming up, another graduation, not near as tramatic, a wedding that will be very difficult because her brother (our nephew) died about 6 years ago...already went to one of the siblings weddings, very difficult, missed both boys so very much. Anniversary of our sons death is the day after father's day, which is always a hard day, and to top off everything else, our son always swore he would get a good job and move us (we need to move so very badly, been trying for 16 years to move and how we got here in the first place was oppression) well, we find out today if we got the house....we are looking at closing on or around the anniversary of his death. I know God will sustain us like He already did, I also know I am already in tears. I miss my baby boy so very much...I know he wasn't a baby, but he will always be my baby boy. Thanks for the prayers and support...now time to refocus off our pain, and onto others who need comforted. Thanks again.

 

[seeingeyes]

You are being passed through the flames, sister, but I have no doubt in my heart that you will come out shining.

"I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’” (Zech 13)


"Place me like a seal over your heart,
like a seal on your arm;
for love is as strong as death,
its jealousy unyielding as the grave.
It burns like blazing fire,
like a mighty flame.
Many waters cannot quench love;
rivers cannot wash it away.
If one were to give
all the wealth of his house for love,
it would be utterly scorned." (Songs 8)


God bless you, sister. I'm still prayin'.

 

[razzelflabben]

One of the things I have learned about grief is how fickle it really is. Yesterday was the second anniversary of our sons death. It was a difficult day to say the least, and the goal was just to survive in tact. It was comforting to have people remember that we were hurting, comforting to know they care, but at the same time, all we wanted was to find a way to move through the day without the constant reminder of how much we still hurt and miss our son. Grief is fickle, there is no way to win, the same people who offer comfort, do so by reminding us of our pain.

Never the less, God is an ever present comfort even when the world seeks to destroy. The bank is jerking us around when it comes to purchasing the house we are looking at. Because our son always said he would get a job and move us, we didn't want to do anything on the house this week when our grief was so strong. We made this known and was told that they would work with us, only to have them and the realtor make this week the most active on the house yet. In fact, the realtor used our earnest money as a hostage so that we would make some decisions that didn't matter in the end, and the drama is still going.

But today tops even that...I get a text from a dear friend, in fact, it's the friend of the house we were at when our son died. He died in a swimming accident at their house....well, to make a long story short. Her sister when on vacation and while there, rescued a young girl who was caught in the under current. My friend suggested our sons death, prepared her sister to rescue this young girl. Now don't get me wrong, I am thrilled beyond belief that this child was rescued, and is alive to be loved by her parents, even one more day, much less the lifetime we except for her. I am also thrilled that this dear sister was able to rescue her, but my heart is already raw, memories haunt, my own pain increased. Grief is fickle.

so today, is more about survival than anything...oh how we need a vacation from everything and everyone, and at the same time, they are encouraging and comforting so how could I want vacation from them....? Oh how fickle grief really is.

 

[seeingeyes]

One of the things I have learned about grief is how fickle it really is. Yesterday was the second anniversary of our sons death. It was a difficult day to say the least, and the goal was just to survive in tact. It was comforting to have people remember that we were hurting, comforting to know they care, but at the same time, all we wanted was to find a way to move through the day without the constant reminder of how much we still hurt and miss our son. Grief is fickle, there is no way to win, the same people who offer comfort, do so by reminding us of our pain.

Never the less, God is an ever present comfort even when the world seeks to destroy. The bank is jerking us around when it comes to purchasing the house we are looking at. Because our son always said he would get a job and move us, we didn't want to do anything on the house this week when our grief was so strong. We made this known and was told that they would work with us, only to have them and the realtor make this week the most active on the house yet. In fact, the realtor used our earnest money as a hostage so that we would make some decisions that didn't matter in the end, and the drama is still going.

But today tops even that...I get a text from a dear friend, in fact, it's the friend of the house we were at when our son died. He died in a swimming accident at their house....well, to make a long story short. Her sister when on vacation and while there, rescued a young girl who was caught in the under current. My friend suggested our sons death, prepared her sister to rescue this young girl. Now don't get me wrong, I am thrilled beyond belief that this child was rescued, and is alive to be loved by her parents, even one more day, much less the lifetime we except for her. I am also thrilled that this dear sister was able to rescue her, but my heart is already raw, memories haunt, my own pain increased. Grief is fickle.

so today, is more about survival than anything...oh how we need a vacation from everything and everyone, and at the same time, they are encouraging and comforting so how could I want vacation from them....? Oh how fickle grief really is.

Oh honey, I am so sorry that you are going through this. Grief is indeed messy, and the rage that comes hand-in-hand with it is astounding. I know what you mean about friends that wreck you with their comfort. At two years in, I wanted to carry around a frying pan to whack anyone who offered sincere condolences to me, because at the mere mention of my boy's name, I was destroyed for the rest of the day.

And, frankly, the idea of other children being rescued from death when mine was not still turns my heart to stone. But I know God is working on that. I know that the God of such crazy grace will not allow me to be so stingy. His love is huge and beautiful and incomprehensible.

I know that He is bringing me to a place where I could give up the rest of my sons and still say, "blessed be the name of the Lord!" And he is not dragging me there with fear and guilt, but He has sent me through the fire of His burning love. Didn't He give up His son for me? Amazing love! There's nothing else like it in the universe.

It takes some time to turn a piece of stone into a work of art, but I'm excited to see what the Sculpter has in mind. Everything He touches is beautiful. And so are you. "Blessed are those who mourn, they will be comforted."

Hang in there, sis