A few questions for Protestants

[Fidelibus]

According to the Bible, it's the household of God,. That is to say, it is the people who, collectively, are the Church of Christ..

So you agree,, according to the Bible, it is not the bible that is the pillar and foundation of truth, correct?

 

[Fidelibus]

That's right. People can be correct when it comes to making a decision, but that's not to say that they are endowed with a supernatural power of being infallible, i.e. being incapable of making a mistake.

Good to know, I'll get back to you on that one.

 

[Fidelibus]

Correct

Faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ

But we must remember that God has gifted humans with the capacity to know the truth and act on it. In fact if this were not so He could not judge our response to His Word.



Not correct -

Consider this from Romans 1...

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So God has evidenced Himself to all individuals direct to the human spirit.



It is the Word of God that He makes manifest in us.

Scripture alone without Him can never be inerrant.

Thanks, but I don't see where you answered my question that I have repeatedly said is most significant to this thread. It is a simple yes or no question.

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

 

[timothyu]

Jesus' gospel was/is the Gospel of the Kingdom, God's governance, not the governance of man in the new Kingdom. It should be pretty clear why God's truth and not any institution of man is the pillar. People need to follow scripture instead of an institution of man, which even teaches a different gospel.

 

[Albion]

So you agree,, according to the Bible, it is not the bible that is the pillar and foundation of truth, correct?

I just answered that question by saying the "pillar and ground" refer to the people of God. They are the church. That's what the phrase, "household of God" means.

 

[Fidelibus]

There is no reason to assume those exact words must be in the Bible for whatever you consider the "pillar of truth" to be named in it. We know Jesus is the Truth and that is what matters.

But what does Scripture say is the "pillar and ground of the truth" - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth?

 

[bbbbbbb]

God, and God alone, is the Truth (not to mention its pillar and foundation). God needs no support. His truth stands alone, unchanged and unchanging.

 

[Fidelibus]

I just answered that question by saying it's the people who collectively are the Church.

You mean you gave your fallible opinion on what you...personally think the correct answer is... right?

That's what the phrase, "household of God" means.

Ahem.... you mean that's what you believe your fallible interpretation means, right? Which could be wrong.... right?

 

[Fidelibus]

God, and God alone, is the Truth (not to mention its pillar and foundation). God needs no support. His truth stands alone, unchanged and unchanging.

Hey, 7b's how's it going??? Anyway, I noticed you too did not answer the last question of my OP. So here it is again....

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Pretty easy yes or no question.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hey, 7b's how's it going??? Anyway, I noticed you too did not answer the last question of my OP. So here it is again....

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Pretty easy yes or no question.

It is, assuredly, not a religious bureaucracy headquartered in Rome, which is the end goal of your question.

 

[klutedavid]

Under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, is it your belief, and would you agree, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals?

I think church history has taught us that, infallibility is not an attribute of mankind. So I would reply in the affirmative.

If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth?

As far as I am concerned, Jesus is the truth. That is a fact as far as I am concerned. That being the primary doctrine of the scripture and the church. As for the lesser doctrines, absolute assurance is not possible.

Yet, Jesus says, "Know the truth and the truth will set make you free." (John 8:32)

So, let me leave you with this last question: For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

Have a Blessed day!

The Holy Spirit upholds all things concerning the Christ. Without the Holy Spirit there is a risk, that you will not understand the scripture properly.

You can be a full blown Christian without the scripture or even the church.

 

[Albion]

You mean you gave your fallible opinion on what you...personally think the correct answer is... right?

If we play that game, it inevitably means that there is no correct answer to anything, for every conviction held by anyone can be dismissed as merely his "opinion."

 

[Fidelibus]

There is no reason to assume those exact words must be in the Bible for whatever you consider the "pillar of truth" to be named in it.

What? Really? I am not assuming anything. Are you not an adherent of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura?
If so, you should not have a problem answering the simple yes or no question on....

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

 

[bbbbbbb]

What? Really? I am not assuming anything. Are you not an adherent of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura?
If so, you should not have a problem answering the simple yes or no question on....

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

Not at all. The Bible is the truth revealed by God to mankind. It needs nothing to uphold or support it, even as God needs nothing to support or uphold Him.

I reiterate, for your benefit, that anyone who thinks that Truth requires support or a pillar, especially in the form of a certain religious bureaucracy, is oddly deluded.

 

[GodLovesCats]

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

I already explained the word "pillar" is not Biblical. Neither is the ground. The only truth is God's Word.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks, but I don't see where you answered my question that I have repeatedly said is most significant to this thread. It is a simple yes or no question.

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?"

I did answer it.

The bible without the Holy Spirit is not reliable.

So the answer is No.

 

[Fidelibus]

If we play that game, it inevitably means that there is no correct answer to anything, for every conviction held by anyone can be dismissed as merely his "opinion."

You think it's a game?? Wow!

However, yes I do agree, under the Protestant/Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone) theological system, there exists no person or no institution that can infallibly decide what is true and what is false for Christians when it comes to matters of faith and/or morals.

So you do agree that under this Protestant theology, yours, or anyone else's,scholarly background or what their non scholar background might not be, (even mine) mean absolutely nothing when it comes to having an authoritative interpretation of Scripture. Zero, zip, nada! Right??

In other words, Albion, in Protestantism, the interpretation of any person who can read the Bible is just as valid, just as authoritative, as the interpretation of any other person who reads the Bible, right? Does that sound about right?

 

[Fidelibus]

I did answer it.

Hello Carl, but with all respect, I don't think you did.

My simple question seems to be either ignored or mis-understood. All I ask is.... in Scripture, and for a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or no?

The bible without the Holy Spirit is not reliable.

Could you please show the Scripture passage that say's this?

So the answer is No.

Okay, so if the bible is not the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth, what does Scripture say that is?

Thank you

 

[Fidelibus]

I already explained the word "pillar" is not Biblical. Neither is the ground. The only truth is God's Word.

Please go to 1 Tim. 3:15, copy/paste and post it for me please. I mean come on CFC, do you really want a Catholic to out Bible you?

Thank you

 

[GodLovesCats]

Please go to 1 Tim. 3:15, copy/paste and post it for me please. I mean come on CFC, do you really want a Catholic to out Bible you?

Thank you

I want a Protestant to out-Bible me. Catholics read Bibles that are not 100% the infallible Word of God and put what fallible men say above the Bible in many things about their faith.