SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

rjs330

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If only there was a transgender person on the forum to weigh in. Oh wait, I'm one.

It's amazing how far people will go to attack the LGBT, even to the lengths of infringing on the personal freedom of others. The same people who scream about parents rights are happy to tell parents of trans kids how to raise them. The same people who scream about government in healthcare are happy to now ask government to get involved in kids healthcare. The same people who scream about religious freedom want to ban and criminalize people are behaviours based on thier religion. Remember when people minded thier own business? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

None of the people here are doctors yet think they know more about gender dysphoria then trans people and medical doctors.

You cannot cure gender dysphoria and the only two options are transition or live with it. Many can't live with it and transition is the only option to save thier life. There is no such thing as a medical treatment or medication that has no risk. Even Tylenol has risks.

Doctors weigh the harm of treatment vs the results and make an educated judgement. Since suicide is fatal and therefore usually considered a sub-optimal result they choose therapy and medical intervention.
We've never said that you as an adult cannot do as you wish. Once a person becomes an adult you make your choices and live with the consequences of them, whatever that may be. If you choose to smoke you take on the chances you get emphysema, lung cancer or whatever.

But we are talking about children, who's brains aren't developed yet, and we all know the kids see things about as far as their nose. They rarely consider the consequences of their actions. The WPATH files have proven that neither the kids nor the parents understand the consequences of Affirmative Care and medicalization. We should bot be experimrn5ing on children. Especially when up to 90% of them desist. They have other issues they are dealing with and because of social media and maybe education they think being trans is the answer. There us no research that proves kids will kill themselves if not allowed to transition. It's okay to wait. Have therapy until your 18. There is no reason not to wait.

The Europeans systematic reviews on this have proven that the research proclaiming that Affirmative Care and medicalization research is nothing but junk science. That's why they have stopped doing it except in tightly controlled research clinics. In about 10 years or more we'll have some real research to consider.

But in the US the medical field hasn't caught up and is still hell bent on Affirmative Care for kids. That's why legislation has to step in. Knowledgeable people who keep up with this have to put a stop to damaging kids.
 
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rjs330

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The point is that claims that children are being manipulated into having surgeries is factually incorrect.
Yes they are. They are being told that transitioning will cure all thier problems. One clinic visit with a doctor and whiz bang here's your drugs now you can transition. Affirmative Care, nedicalization with drugs and you are trans. The next logical step is to have your breast's removed. From the moment a kid hears "yet you are trans", is a manipulation. You've been put on the trans train. Affirmative Care is nothing more than manipulation.
 
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Zaha Torte

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If only there was a transgender person on the forum to weigh in. Oh wait, I'm one.

It's amazing how far people will go to attack the LGBT, even to the lengths of infringing on the personal freedom of others. The same people who scream about parents rights are happy to tell parents of trans kids how to raise them. The same people who scream about government in healthcare are happy to now ask government to get involved in kids healthcare. The same people who scream about religious freedom want to ban and criminalize people are behaviours based on thier religion. Remember when people minded thier own business? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

None of the people here are doctors yet think they know more about gender dysphoria then trans people and medical doctors.

You cannot cure gender dysphoria and the only two options are transition or live with it. Many can't live with it and transition is the only option to save thier life. There is no such thing as a medical treatment or medication that has no risk. Even Tylenol has risks.

Doctors weigh the harm of treatment vs the results and make an educated judgement. Since suicide is fatal and therefore usually considered a sub-optimal result they choose therapy and medical intervention.
God bless you and I pray you find strength to overcome your struggles.

There just is no love in lying to people and children cannot consent to such treatments.

I understand that you may perceive that as hateful - but I promise we love you and God loves you.
 
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rjs330

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Literally "everyone" agrees 100% that the experts "are 100% biased"? Come on, no one's going to buy that.
Yes they do. WPATH is totally biased. The irfanization is filled with activists and people with conflicts of interest because they are receiving money from being doing affirmative care or medicalization. They know there is no evidence that their guidelines are effective and they know their research is bad. Yet they still claim that it's the only option. Their SOC 8 is junk science.

The funny thing is that there are places that know this ans actually say it, but STILL use their SOC. They refuse to explore the possibility that therapy works in helping kids over come their trans thoughts.

So yes they are totally biased.

 
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We've never said that you as an adult cannot do as you wish. Once a person becomes an adult you make your choices and live with the consequences of them, whatever that may be. If you choose to smoke you take on the chances you get emphysema, lung cancer or whatever.

But we are talking about children, who's brains aren't developed yet, and we all know the kids see things about as far as their nose. They rarely consider the consequences of their actions. The WPATH files have proven that neither the kids nor the parents understand the consequences of Affirmative Care and medicalization. We should bot be experimrn5ing on children. Especially when up to 90% of them desist. They have other issues they are dealing with and because of social media and maybe education they think being trans is the answer. There us no research that proves kids will kill themselves if not allowed to transition. It's okay to wait. Have therapy until your 18. There is no reason not to wait.

The Europeans systematic reviews on this have proven that the research proclaiming that Affirmative Care and medicalization research is nothing but junk science. That's why they have stopped doing it except in tightly controlled research clinics. In about 10 years or more we'll have some real research to consider.

But in the US the medical field hasn't caught up and is still hell bent on Affirmative Care for kids. That's why legislation has to step in. Knowledgeable people who keep up with this have to put a stop to damaging kids.
Do you have any medical, peer reviewed studies to support these incredibly made up stats? According to the peer reviewed studies the number who "grow out of it" is about five percent, not ninety. It would be a good idea to actually look up the stats instead of conjuring up numbers out of thin air.

No one under 18 can legally do anything except take hormone blockers/change pronouns and dress as the gender they conform to.
God bless you and I pray you find strength to overcome your struggles.

There just is no love in lying to people and children cannot consent to such treatments.

I understand that you may perceive that as hateful - but I promise we love you and God loves you.
I don't think everyone is hateful, some people are just blinded by ignorance, religious ideology or cultural upbringing.
 
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BCP1928

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See I was right. You can't substantiate your claims. You are dodging. You can't afford to answer my questions because you know you can't. Of course there are traits that are traditionally associated with each sex. Give me break. Does that mean if you don't have them or all of them you are trans? Geez man , just answer the questions and quit dodging.

Either that and just admit you can't.

Everyone who does that is trans? What are those emotions and traits?

Let me clarify in case you are confused. What are those traits associated with the opposite sex that one might have that would indicatee you are trans? What emotions of the opposite sex that one might have that indicate that one might be trans?
Stay calm and we'll get there, but we're still a ways from what "trans" is.. You just made a big admission and we'll have to unpack it first. Now that we agree that there are traits traditionally associated with each sex, the next question is, can we agree that the traits we associate with one sex can sometimes found to be exhibited by a person of the other sex?
 
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rjs330

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Fair enough. Go ahead and tell the people whose research I linked that they are wrong, and you're sure of it because 2 generations ago some doctors were wrong about the dangers of smoking. Let us know what their response is.

I get it. Looking at cases where researchers got it wrong in the past (while ignoring the vast majority of times they get it right, or at least improved our knowledge) is a great way to rationalize cases where one hopes this might be the case now. But without actual evidence that the current research in question is flawed, there's literally no way to tell if it is like one of the unusual cases in the past where the research was totally wrong or if it is part of the much more common situation where experts in the field are working their best to come to informed conclusions using the limited information at hand.

I'm really reminded of climate change deniers pulling out a single magazine cover from the 70s talking about a coming ice age as "evidence" that all of modern climate science is wrong. Or evolution deniers pointing to a misidentified fossil from a century ago as evidence that all of modern biology is flawed. It's not an exact parallel but feels much the same.
Except that entire countries have changed thier course. Even WPATH knows thier research is bad. This isn't a magazine cover of a single magazine. It's systematic reviews of many countries. It's contained in the Cass Report. Why even Canada admits the systematic reviews show the research is bad. So quit telling us there is no evidence. That is such bunk. It's time you to catch up.

Carl Heneghan, editor-in-chief of the British Medical Journal, and Professor of Evidence-Based Medicine from the University of Oxford performed a review of the literature for puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones in children and adolescence. He concluded: “The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice in children.”

Three of the same gender professionals again said a year earlier in the AMA Journal of Ethics: “Transgender medicine presents a particular challenge for the development of evidence-based guidelines. First and foremost, data on health outcomes in transgender medicine are currently limited to retrospective studies, case series, and individual case reports.”

The same authors go on to say that, even though there is no evidence, “The existence of guidelines in the field of transgender medicine both legitimizes the need for gender-affirming medical and surgical interventions and informs medical practitioners and policymakers on how to best meet these needs.” This statement could not show more clearly the harm low-quality medical guidelines can do—legitimize potential harm and lead other medical professionals to assume the guidelines were developed based on quality data and scientific rigor.

  • Irreversible medication and surgery are permitted for children, even though “the number of studies is still low”, “there are few outcome studies that follow youth into adulthood” and “no clinical studies have reported on profiles of adolescents who regret their initial decision”. There is no evidence to support this decision.
  • Children can move straight to cross-sex hormones – they will no longer be requested to start with a suppression of puberty. Although puberty blockers are damaging, cross-sex hormones are a good deal more harmful as they can permanently alter the body, the face, the genitals and the voice. There is no evidence to support this radical decision.
  • Despite evidence that shows chest binding and genital tucking as significantly harmful to the body, WPATH ignores these dangers and instead advises clinicians to provide education on these so as to provide “comfort” to children.
A very short time after the document went public, a major unexpected “correction” was issued. However this wasn’t a “correction” this was an ideological turnaround. This change of heart was reported all over the world as it removed all minimum age requirements for ‘gender affirmative’ surgeries.


I think your claims have been debunked.

Ti's stuff is dangerous for kids and should be banned. There is NO evidence that it's effective in helping kids and much e idence its harmful.
 
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rjs330

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Because it points out how those sorts of claims are cherry-picking only the bits of the conclusions of those governments which agree with far-right talking points on the subject. We're supposed to accept them because they're health care decisions from Europe, just don't think about all the other health care decisions from Europe we need to ignore.

Plus it undercuts the GOP's claim to be for small government when not only are they working to get big government to interfere in parental choice but they're doing so to adopt health care policies from "socialist" governments in the process.
First off they are not far right talking points. You are just spouting propaganda. As ice pointed out there are therapists, physicians, endocrinologist, researchers and reports that are certainly NOT far right who have pointed out that this is harmful to kids and there is no evidence that it's helpful. So you can stop with your wild leftist propaganda. I know why you say things like that. By using such tactics you can brush off anything presented. But in this case brush all you want. It won't change the fact that scientific and therapeutic organizations along with educational researchers, scientific researchers and medical treatment organizations world wide have made the claims. And they aren't far right. You don't get to label them as such just because we on the right agree with them.

Secondly whether or not there should be a single payer system is irrelevant to the discussion. If the US medical field decided to follow Europe regarding transing kids we would all be on board with that. If they would've done it first that would have been great ans we would have supported that. This isn't remotely about who pays for what. So you might as well jump off that train. It's irrelevant.
 
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BCP1928

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I don't think it's outlawed choices. It's outlawed harmful medical treatments and therapies regarding children. Therapies that have not been scientifically proven to even be beneficial. Once could argue that we are taking away the choice to those harmful and unproven treatments, but I would say do we actually want to give kids a choice if that nature? I say no. We don't allow them to smoke or drink alcohol. Are we taking a way a choice? Technically so. But I'm okay with that.
The bill actually outlawed two different things, two different strategies for two different issues. In the first place, it outlaws treatments for minors which are, or should be, reserved for treatment of clinically diagnosed cases of actual gender dysphoria. If you want to argue that existing diagnosis protocols are inadequate or that the treatments proposed are not well enough understood to be appropriate for minors--even with parental consent--I will be glad to plead nolo contendere.

But it also outlaws minor social accomodations for gender nonconforming youth who are not necessarily gender dysphoric. Why is that?
 
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rjs330

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Have you got any numbers?
The absolute number of GAS procedures rose from 4552 in 2016 to a peak of 13 011 in 2019 and then declined slightly to 12 818 in 2020. Overall, 25 099 patients (52.3%) were aged 19 to 30 years, 10 476 (21.8%) were aged 31 to 40, and 3678 (7.7%) were aged12 to 18 years. When stratified by the type of procedure performed, breast and chest procedures made up a greater percentage of the surgical interventions in younger patients,

National Estimates of Gender-Affirming Surgery in the US

Why did you want to know. And you still haven't answered my questions. You still dodging?
 
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rjs330

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They don't have to be manipulated if they are given a better choice than the one you offer.
They aren't being given that in the US. Even though it's available. The gender clinics are about affirming and medicalizing.

There are other options. That's why we are trying to get the word out. And it's growing.

 
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BCP1928

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They aren't being given that in the US. Even though it's available. The gender clinics are about affirming and medicalizing.

There are other options. That's why we are trying to get the word out. And it's growing.

Of course the best choice would be for them to be in a social environment where they would not be ostracized, discriminated against and maybe even beaten up, until they are old enough for clinical treatment.
 
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rjs330

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Do you have any medical, peer reviewed studies to support these incredibly made up stats? According to the peer reviewed studies the number who "grow out of it" is about five percent, not ninety. It would be a good idea to actually look up the stats instead of conjuring up numbers out of thin air.

No one under 18 can legally do anything except take hormone blockers/change pronouns and dress as the gender they conform to.
Desistance

You are being lied to.

And you kids under 18 can get surgeries. Your being lied to again. In another post I showed the stats we have available.

Before you decide to start challenging me on this subject you should know I've been researching this for sometime. Everything I say has been backed up. There are many threads on this forum regarding you particular issue. There isn't anything you can say in support of transing kids that I haven't heard before and haven't debunked with evidence.

What YOU do with your life is up to you. If you are indeed suffering from dysphoria then you truly have my empathy. My best friend has a daughter that transitioned because she was molested. She thought being a boy would be better and maker happier. But she's a psychological mess. I still love that kid. She just had a hysterectomy and now my buddy will never have grandkids. I feel for him as well.

It's a terrible mental health problem. I would love to hear your story sometime. Despite the fact I'm a conservative I do have a heart. I care. That's why I'm so passionate about the kid issue.
 
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Zaha Torte

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I don't think everyone is hateful, some people are just blinded by ignorance, religious ideology or cultural upbringing.
What about biology and history?

I don't want to have an argument about it - there is enough of that going around - but you really don't think that people on our side of the aisle could ever have a legitimate reason to reject your position?
 
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rjs330

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But it also outlaws minor social accomodations for gender nonconforming youth who are not necessarily gender dysphoric. Why is that?
What are the minority social accommodations you are talking about? And what do YOU mean by gender nonconforming youth?
 
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