SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

rjs330

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Nice and thank you - I didn't even realize the posts were numbered. That will make things easier. :)
We can learn something new everyday! That is one reason I am on these boards. I learn things and I also pass on information so others can learn things too.
 
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rjs330

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Of course the best choice would be for them to be in a social environment where they would not be ostracized, discriminated against and maybe even beaten up, until they are old enough for clinical treatment.
Kids are ostracized all the time. It's not good. But it certainly isn't new nor is it limited being trans. Kids are bullied for having red hair, big noses, bring fat are what have you. I was bullied cause I was the new kid. So yes the the BEST case would be for us to live in a world where no one would be bullied for any reason. But that's not humanity.

Discriminated against is something else. It totally depends in what you mean. Because in certain cases it's perfectly reasonable to discriminate against someone. The other day I watched a video of a young lady who was complaining she was discriminated against during her job searches for her tattoos. She had demons tattooed on the front of her chest and neck and some sort of weird tattoo across her forehead. Her face was full of piercings. Yes she probably was decriminalized against for that. She's done things to herself that makes her unfit for working at some jobs. Sometimes there is a perfectly legit reason to discriminate against someone. Sometimes there isn't. So what do you mean by discriminated against. What are you referring to?
 
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Foamhead

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You are being lied to.

And you kids under 18 can get surgeries. Your being lied to again. In another post I showed the stats we have available.

Before you decide to start challenging me on this subject you should know I've been researching this for sometime. Everything I say has been backed up. There are many threads on this forum regarding you particular issue. There isn't anything you can say in support of transing kids that I haven't heard before and haven't debunked with evidence.

What YOU do with your life is up to you. If you are indeed suffering from dysphoria then you truly have my empathy. My best friend has a daughter that transitioned because she was molested. She thought being a boy would be better and maker happier. But she's a psychological mess. I still love that kid. She just had a hysterectomy and now my buddy will never have grandkids. I feel for him as well.

It's a terrible mental health problem. I would love to hear your story sometime. Despite the fact I'm a conservative I do have a heart. I care. That's why I'm so passionate about the kid issue.
I'm calling you out. How old is she? A hysterectomy on a child us illegal and would lead to both loss of medical license and prison.
 
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Foamhead

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You are being lied to.

And you kids under 18 can get surgeries. Your being lied to again. In another post I showed the stats we have available.

Before you decide to start challenging me on this subject you should know I've been researching this for sometime. Everything I say has been backed up. There are many threads on this forum regarding you particular issue. There isn't anything you can say in support of transing kids that I haven't heard before and haven't debunked with evidence.

What YOU do with your life is up to you. If you are indeed suffering from dysphoria then you truly have my empathy. My best friend has a daughter that transitioned because she was molested. She thought being a boy would be better and maker happier. But she's a psychological mess. I still love that kid. She just had a hysterectomy and now my buddy will never have grandkids. I feel for him as well.

It's a terrible mental health problem. I would love to hear your story sometime. Despite the fact I'm a conservative I do have a heart. I care. That's why I'm so passionate about the kid issue.
I really don't care about your "research", you are not a medical doctor or a psychotherapist. It is illegal to perform gender surgery on anyone under 18. Show us evidence of these surgeries, not just repeating the same claim over and over. Otherwise you're either grossly (willingly) misinformed or outright deceptive.
 
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Zaha Torte

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I'm calling you out. How old is she? A hysterectomy on a child us illegal and would lead to both loss of medical license and prison.
They cut off Jazz's wing-dang-doodle when he was seventeen.

He has been on TV talking about how he is really a girl since he was six and got his own TV show when he was fifteen.

This had been going on in public for a while.
 
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Foamhead

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What about biology and history?

I don't want to have an argument about it - there is enough of that going around - but you really don't think that people on our side of the aisle could ever have a legitimate reason to reject your position?
I really don't care about arguments from nature/biology. If you really feel that way then you'd oppose corrective glasses, plastic surgery to repair/correct abnormalities I.e. cleft pallet and so on. Most anti-trans/anti-LGBT people are informed by a religious ideology. Such ideology has no place on the lawbooks of a secular society.
 
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Foamhead

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They cut off Jazz's wing-dang-doodle when he was seventeen.

He has been on TV talking about how he is really a girl since he was six and got his own TV show when he was fifteen.

This had been going on in public for a while.
Jazz was seventeen and a half, which is old enough to give medical consent depending on where you live.

Regardless you people don't say surgery is being performed on 17 and a half year olds, you use the term "children". This is because you're trying to appeal to people's emotions by conjuring up images of 9 year olds.

I have no regard for demeaning baby talk like "wing doodle", or disrespecting people by not addressing them the way they ask. You're hatred is not an argument.

FYI they don't cut off your "wing doodle" during grs, they just rearrange things into a female configuration.
 
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Zaha Torte

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I really don't care about arguments from nature/biology. If you really feel that way then you'd oppose corrective glasses, plastic surgery to repair/correct abnormalities I.e. cleft pallet and so on. Most anti-trans/anti-LGBT people are informed by a religious ideology. Such ideology has no place on the lawbooks of a secular society.
I don't see how you can compare these things with gender dysphoria or transgenderism.

Those are physical things that we can observe, and we know that human beings - generally - are shaped a certain way and should be capable of certain things - like being able to see.

These things regarding gender and confusion are all in the mind and should be dealt in that manner.

You are also confusing common sense with religious ideology.

Just because they happen to correlate does not mean one caused the other.
 
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BCP1928

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Kids are ostracized all the time. It's not good. But it certainly isn't new nor is it limited being trans. Kids are bullied for having red hair, big noses, bring fat are what have you. I was bullied cause I was the new kid. So yes the the BEST case would be for us to live in a world where no one would be bullied for any reason. But that's not humanity.
So why add to it? Why demonize another group for no good reason? It only adds to the bullying.
Discriminated against is something else. It totally depends in what you mean. Because in certain cases it's perfectly reasonable to discriminate against someone. The other day I watched a video of a young lady who was complaining she was discriminated against during her job searches for her tattoos. She had demons tattooed on the front of her chest and neck and some sort of weird tattoo across her forehead. Her face was full of piercings. Yes she probably was decriminalized against for that. She's done things to herself that makes her unfit for working at some jobs. Sometimes there is a perfectly legit reason to discriminate against someone. Sometimes there isn't. So what do you mean by discriminated against. What are you referring to?
Yeah, but she had a choice, and knew ahead of time that there are employers who hate tats. Nobody told her that her desire to have tats could only be either pretended or the result of mental illness and that she would burn in hell for it.
 
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BCP1928

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What are the minority social accommodations you are talking about?
The bill outlaws nicknames not known to the parents. That's just silly. I remember that many of us had nicknames at school that were not known to our parents, and sometimes our teachers went along with it without telling them. I suppose they just never thought of it, Thank goodness for this bill!
And what do YOU mean by gender nonconforming youth?
Any nonconformity to the strict behavior and attitude standards set for men and women. It could be anything; Attitude toward rough/contact sports. Manner of dress. Preferences in leisure activities. Preferences in potential careers. It could be effeminate mannerisms (for a male} or masculine mannerisms (for a female.) Being gay is gender nonconformity. But not all gender nonconformity is trans and not all trans is gender dysphoria
 
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Foamhead

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I don't see how you can compare these things with gender dysphoria or transgenderism.

Those are physical things that we can observe, and we know that human beings - generally - are shaped a certain way and should be capable of certain things - like being able to see.

These things regarding gender and confusion are all in the mind and should be dealt in that manner.

You are also confusing common sense with religious ideology.

Just because they happen to correlate does not mean one caused the other.
Actually yes you do see the comparison, you just don't like the comparison. Arguments from nature/biology are non-arguments unless you're prepared to have that stance for all medical procedures that interfere with those things. Since you're not, and most people in your position aren't because that would be insane, it means nature and biology are not really the issues for you.

You see, you cannot just say "It's against my religious beliefs" because you know it's an immediate loss. Who cares? I'm not of your religion. You can't say "I just don't like LGBT/Transgender people" because then you're admitting you have no case, other then your inherent hate for those groups which is also an immediate loss. We're not stupid and we can see through these transparent arguments.

Therefore we see these appeals to biology or "for the children" type arguments for what they are... and effort in to obfuscate your real issue. Your arguments are not common sense, if they were, it wouldn't be almost entirely Christian fundamentalists screaming about it.

As to how it should be delt with, you are not a medical doctor nor a psychotherapist, so perhaps we should let the medical experts figure that out and everyone else just minds their own business.
 
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Zaha Torte

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Actually yes you do see the comparison, you just don't like the comparison. Arguments from nature/biology are non-arguments unless you're prepared to have that stance for all medical procedures that interfere with those things. Since you're not, and most people in your position aren't because that would be insane, it means nature and biology are not really the issues for you.
I suppose that you will just have to give me more examples - because those you have already mentioned were easily refuted by arguments from biology.
You see, you cannot just say "It's against my religious beliefs" because you know it's an immediate loss. Who cares? I'm not of your religion. You can't say "I just don't like LGBT/Transgender people" because then you're admitting you have no case, other then your inherent hate for those groups which is also an immediate loss. We're not stupid and we can see through these transparent arguments.
I hope you understand that all of this is you simply begging the question.
Therefore we see these appeals to biology or "for the children" type arguments for what they are... and effort in to obfuscate your real issue.
The "real issue" is that men cannot be women and women cannot be men.

A close appendage to this issue is the fact that children are very impressionable, and we should avoid willfully trying to confuse them with any ideology that has no basis in reality.
Your arguments are not common sense, if they were, it wouldn't be almost entirely Christian fundamentalists screaming about it.
Again - the fact that common sense happens to agree with the Biblical claim that "God created them male and female" does not mean that one begat the other.

Not only "Christian fundamentalists" disagree with this false ideology. I think you just assume that because of your bias.
As to how it should be delt with, you are not a medical doctor nor a psychotherapist, so perhaps we should let the medical experts figure that out and everyone else just minds their own business.
I don't need to be a medical doctor or a psychotherapist to know what a man or a woman is.

Again - I am claiming that this ideology is easily refuted by appeals to common sense. No need for experts.

As to how to help the victims of this false ideology - they need the Lord Jesus Christ. We all need Him.

Don't be like Satan - who believes his own lies. Come to Christ and be healed.
 
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rturner76

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Do you think a trans person has to experience "dysphoria" to receive any treatment?
Not at first, they likely will have to get a referral from their primary Dr. (unless they have grade-A insurance that has a list of providers that you can see). That's beside the point but that's step one when seeking mental health treatment. You will be matched with someone or you may be able to choose who you want to see (insurance thing again).

That person will do a basic intake which will go over physical health questions, family history, medications, etc. Then they will get to the questions that will better determine a few things like.... Is this patient a candidate for the diagnosis of gender dysphoria? If the doctor believes they fit the criteria or if it's a clinic like Mayo, a team of doctors will come to a consensus on the diagnosis and the Doctor and patient will agree on a treatment plan. This is where they set goals for treatment, what is an indicator that each goal has been met. At that point, if their goals have been met, they go to the next phase of treatment, reevaluate, and so on.

Treatment, (if they are any good) will help the patient make peace with where they are now and help them clearly define what their desired outcome would be (usually that's what's in a treatment plan.

Those places you see in the news are on the news for a reason. It's not "normal" to rush someone through the process in order to get to the big expensive surgery. It's like comparing a clinic like Mayo to a pill mill. Sadly, some medical "professionals" are just out to get a quick buck. They fly them through the paperwork and do the bare minimum enough to make it mostly legal. Even those cheap abortion clinics (Not Planned Parenthood), but those walk-in abortion clinics. It's different than going to a quality PP clinic or get a referral from your primary doctor.

We SHOULD be able to trust all the medical professionals who took the oath to do no harm. If someone wants to change their gender and they want it paid for by insurance, you have to cop to gender dysphoria. It is a medical diagnosis with established criteria by the American Psychiatric Association. in the DSM-5 manual. It's the basic criteria for diagnosing mental disorders, gender dysphoria is in there and every diagnosis in that manual is considered also a health condition. Gone are the days where having a mental condition is simply a character flaw.

Measurement​

No objective measurement or imaging of the human body exists for gender identity, as it is part of one's subjective experience.[119][120] Numerous clinical measurements for assessing gender identity exist, including questionnaire-based, interview-based and task-based assessments. These have varying effect sizes among a number of specific sub-populations.[121] Gender identity measures have been applied in clinical assessment studies of people with gender dysphoria or intersex conditions.


You're talking about evidence now....

What evidence is there for the concept of a "gender identity"?
I think it's a lay term for gender dysphoria.
In Canada they offer you assisted suicide....sometimes for curable or treatable conditions.

You really are overestimating modern medicine here
That's another matter but I would think an Atheist would approve of someone making a free choice about how to end their suffering. Some people prefer to DIY with dignity and not a diaper. I'm against it for religious reasons but not secular ones.

That's not what was happening. Years of therapy and support groups and the rest is your imagination.
It may be what they did but it doesn't make it best practices. I said earlier in this post there are always rip-off artists, even in the medical community.
The Affirmative Care model is the standard model. It's not the "questioning gender" model.
An introduction for an article posted byhttps://focus.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.focus.20190030#:~:text=Affirmative%20care%20is%20defined%20as,the%20individuals%20served%20(1).
Affirmative care is defined as an approach to health care delivery in which organizations, programs, and providers recognize, validate, and support the identity stated or expressed by the individuals served (1). Affirmative or affirming care has been recognized as a best-practice form of service for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning (LGBTQ+) people (2, 3). This model of care for members of sexual and gender minority communities is much preferred over approaches that pathologize LGBTQ+ individuals or attempt to cis-heteronormatively convert their identities and preferences.

As I'm reading this, I am realizing that they mostly want to believe someone when they tell you what they feel, affirm it, and support, teach, and treat them. I haven't read anything about this recommendation forcing boys to say they are girls or fast-tracking them to the surgeon's table. I think what is most important to them is not heaping shame on someone for how they feel and, I bolded it in the paragraph above.

By you wanting to kick a boy out of a clinic and tell him, to go home and be a boy doesn't treat anything. It only makes them feel like they have no place in this world. By treating it, they see that other people feel the same way, it's done in stages and every step is documented and subject to review.
Why do you think this is happening?

Because there's tons of stories of people getting pills in 1-2 visits to a clinic. There's no stories of anyone doing "copious amounts of psychotherapy" prior to getting pills.

That may have been the model long long ago....but it's very fast now. Why would a trans person need "psychotherapy" if being trans isn't a mental illness?

Again....you need to explain what it is you think for us to continue because you keep talking about "years of psychotherapy" and the rest....

Being transgender isn't considered a mental illness. Do you understand that?

If you do...why do you think it would take all this therapy and psychological testing for them to get puberty blockers or hormones?
Look it up in the DSM-5. It's a medical diagnosis, insurance pays for it like they pay for any mental health treatment. Do you understand that? Has your car insurance ever bought groceries? Why would a health insurance company pay for treatment the has nothing to do with healthcare?
 
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rturner76

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Why would they though?

Do you see the problem now? Professionals don't consider being "transgender" a medical disorder. As you said, a person claiming to be transgender knows better than anyone else what they're feeling....that's why all the doctor does is "affirm" the trans person's gender.

That's the Affirmative Care model...and because these trans activists all insist they knew they were like this as children, that's the same model used on children.

There's no years of psychotherapy or checklists....that could get the doctor in trouble. That could be interpreted as "trying to talk someone out of being transgender". That's against the standards of the Affirmative Care model.
I addressed this in another post. Check it out. Gender Dysphoria IS an illness by defenition
 
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RileyG

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They cut off Jazz's wing-dang-doodle when he was seventeen.

He has been on TV talking about how he is really a girl since he was six and got his own TV show when he was fifteen.

This had been going on in public for a while.
That’s child abuse. Yet he wonders why he doesn’t experience arousal. Sad.
 
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Foamhead

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I suppose that you will just have to give me more examples - because those you have already mentioned were easily refuted by arguments from biology.

I don't need to give you more examples because you know exactly what I'm saying. Playing like you don't means you are very dishonest and I don't waste my time with dishonest people.

I hope you understand that all of this is you simply begging the question.
No it's not... virtually everyone opposed to LGBT rights and transgender medical treatment are religious fundamentalists. This is not my opinion it's born out by the research.

There's more, but I'm not going to waste my energy finding it because you won't read it or care anyway.
The "real issue" is that men cannot be women and women cannot be men.
No fact based argument and scientific data can possibly stand up to hard hitting loud opinion stating. Who cares what you personally think? This is your opinion and nothing more. It's no more meaningful then someone saying vanilla ice cream is better then chocolate.
A close appendage to this issue is the fact that children are very impressionable, and we should avoid willfully trying to confuse them with any ideology that has no basis in reality.
Yes, better we confuse them with your ideology.

I have never in my life met, seen or heard of a doctor or parent saying to a child "Hey did you ever consider you're a girl in a boy body? Let's getcha on some estrogen stat!".

What nonsense. You obviously don't know what ideology means. Medical conditions and psychiatric disorders are not an ideology.
Again - the fact that common sense happens to agree with the Biblical claim that "God created them male and female" does not mean that one begat the other.
I don't care one iota what the bible says, it also says unicorns and cockatrices exist, that bats are a kind of bird and the sun moves around the earth.
Not only "Christian fundamentalists" disagree with this false ideology. I think you just assume that because of your bias.
Okay, who? Name any organization qualified in medicine and gender identity disorder who agrees with you that is not religiously affiliated.
I don't need to be a medical doctor or a psychotherapist to know what a man or a woman is.
Okay let's take that challenge. I've inserted three pictures here. No one on this forum try and help please. There are no tricks, and none of these people are transgender or had any surgery. Which one is biologically male? You tell me and I'll tell you if you picked correctly.

hqdefault.jpg
Sis.jpg
Han.jpg



Again - I am claiming that this ideology is easily refuted by appeals to common sense. No need for experts.
Lol

"No need for experts... my uniformed opinion is all that should matter." Go and have a hard think about that statement.
As to how to help the victims of this false ideology - they need the Lord Jesus Christ. We all need Him.



Don't be like Satan - who believes his own lies. Come to Christ and be healed.
Ah yes, pray the gay (trans) away. Known for it stunning track record of success.
 
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ralliann

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If only there was a transgender person on the forum to weigh in. Oh wait, I'm one.

It's amazing how far people will go to attack the LGBT, even to the lengths of infringing on the personal freedom of others. The same people who scream about parents rights are happy to tell parents of trans kids how to raise them. The same people who scream about government in healthcare are happy to now ask government to get involved in kids healthcare. The same people who scream about religious freedom want to ban and criminalize people are behaviours based on thier religion. Remember when people minded thier own business? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

None of the people here are doctors yet think they know more about gender dysphoria then trans people and medical doctors.

You cannot cure gender dysphoria and the only two options are transition or live with it. Many can't live with it and transition is the only option to save thier life. There is no such thing as a medical treatment or medication that has no risk. Even Tylenol has risks.

Doctors weigh the harm of treatment vs the results and make an educated judgement. Since suicide is fatal and therefore usually considered a sub-optimal result they choose therapy and medical intervention.
Caitlyn Jenner disagrees with you.
 
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Zaha Torte

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That’s child abuse. Yet he wonders why he doesn’t experience arousal. Sad.
Not only that but he is very depressed. His mother threatened him that if he didn't continue to - lubricate his new orifice - while he was away at collage that she would attack him and do it herself.

It's all very disturbing and we all know his parents did it for themselves.
 
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