Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[rturner76]

To say you've caused less harm than the combine total of millions of other people is nothing to brag about; you've also done less good than that combine total.

By denying systemic racism exists, who are you helping exactly? Nobody but the white man it seems to me. Why continue to prop up the white supremacist agenda? I try to open the eyes of the blind, why promote darkness?

 

[rjs330]

I will concede it is possible that I misunderstood you, however, I'm not about to go through all of your statements on this thread. From what I remember though, you have been staunchly against the notion of systemic racism. Unless you are ready to admit systemic racism does exists. Then I recant any statement I have put forward concerning your lack of belief in systemic racism. Are you willing to go that far?

Post #2227 has all the details you need to know. Admit I did not say racism does not exist and admit I did not say systemic racism exists and we well move on.

 

[Ken-1122]

By denying systemic racism exists, who are you helping exactly? Nobody but the white man it seems to me. Why continue to prop up the white supremacist agenda? I try to open the eyes of the blind, why promote darkness?

I speak the truth because it needs to be said. Systemic racism was pretty much wiped out during the civil rights act of 1964. Racism will always exist, but racist systems have been made illegal.

 

[RDKirk]

By denying systemic racism exists, who are you helping exactly? Nobody but the white man it seems to me. Why continue to prop up the white supremacist agenda? I try to open the eyes of the blind, why promote darkness?

What are you going to do with the concept of systemic racism, except inculcate a psychology of victimhood? That's "victim grooming."

If the plan is to build reverse racism into the system (at this point, "reverse racism" is finally the proper term), then you only harden the reality of racism into generations that were being trained out of it.

Moreover, as the US quickly becomes more and more diverse--yes, that day is coming, and it's coming fast--you wind up with every ethnic group hardening its own racial positions and fighting for political supremacy because you've made race, once again, the dominant political factor.

And that need not be.

The fix for racism, as far as government can install a fix, is already in. Now you're just waiting for the last generation that got government-led and government-fed racism (us Boomers) to die off.

 

[RDKirk]

I speak the truth because it needs to be said. Systemic racism was pretty much wiped out during the civil rights act of 1964. Racism will always exist, but racist systems have been made illegal.

Well, it wasn't wiped out immediately then, and it's not fully wiped out now. Hundreds of years of virulent racism cannot disappear in less than a saeculum. "Raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he is grown, he will not stray away from it" and "as the sapling is bent, so grows the tree," and such.

But it's on its way out. The last generation of "as the sapling is bent" racists is soon to die out, and the "contact racists" behind us will themselves become less and less relevant.

 

[Ken-1122]

Well, it wasn't wiped out immediately then, and it's not fully wiped out now. Hundreds of years of virulent racism cannot disappear in less than a saeculum. "Raise up a child in the way he should go, and when he is grown, he will not stray away from it" and "as the sapling is bent, so grows the tree," and such.

But it's on its way out. The last generation of "as the sapling is bent" racists is soon to die out, and the "contact racists" behind us will themselves become less and less relevant.

I see systemic racism as legalized racism. To end it you simply change the laws so in order to do business, you can’t enact racist rules. Racism will never end, as a matter of fact, I see racism being alive and well in the current generation. I see far less white people accepting of racism, but more and more black and brown people embracing it.

 

[RDKirk]

I see systemic racism as legalized racism. To end it you simply change the laws so in order to do business, you can’t enact racist rules. Racism will never end, as a matter of fact, I see racism being alive and well in the current generation. I see far less white people accepting of racism, but more and more black and brown people embracing it.

Well, we do have government teaching racism again....

 

[Ken-1122]

Well, we do have government teaching racism again....

Not only the Government, but Academia, Hollywood, much of modern music; many of the powers that be. There is even a popular claim that racism requires power (which it doesn’t) and because black people don’t have power (which they do) Black people cannot be racist. When you exempt any group from accusations an evil, the evil in that group will have no reason to refrain from it. Yes; unfortunately, racism is alive and well; it only wears a different face.

 

[RDKirk]

Not only the Government, but Academia, Hollywood, much of modern music; many of the powers that be. There is even a popular claim that racism requires power (which it doesn’t) and because black people don’t have power (which they do) Black people cannot be racist. When you exempt any group from accusations an evil, the evil in that group will have no reason to refrain from it. Yes; unfortunately, racism is alive and well; it only wears a different face.

That's a recent redefinition of racism designed to maintain its social use. That redefinition is a result of making Black Studies a major subject in academia...those professors have to keep their field alive.

It's true that black people as a group do not hold much power. Comparing identity groups, groups that flex their power as self-identified groups in society, black people have virtually no power.

But power in society is also a function of the moment. For a few crucial minutes, five black policemen in Memphis held power over Tyre Nichols, for instance. Black people today may not have power as a group, but we often have power of the moment, and in that moment, racism can be manifested.

 

[rturner76]

Post #2227 has all the details you need to know. Admit I did not say racism does not exist and admit I did not say systemic racism exists and we well move on.

Didn't I do that in post #2227?

 

[rturner76]

I speak the truth because it needs to be said. Systemic racism was pretty much wiped out during the civil rights act of 1964. Racism will always exist, but racist systems have been made illegal.

I think you are wrong Again 25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

While Black people have made economic and health gains, they’ve slipped farther behind white people in education, social justice and civic engagement since this index was launched in 2005. A compendium of average outcomes by race in many aspects of life, it shows just how hard it is for people of color to overcome systemic racism, the civil rights organization says.

Annual report shows systemic racism continues to bring down Black people's quality of life

Urban League President Marc Morial says the index shows how hard it is to overcome systemic racism that's made life harder in many ways for people of color.

www.pbs.org

 

[RDKirk]

I think you are wrong Again 25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

While Black people have made economic and health gains, they’ve slipped farther behind white people in education, social justice and civic engagement since this index was launched in 2005. A compendium of average outcomes by race in many aspects of life, it shows just how hard it is for people of color to overcome systemic racism, the civil rights organization says.

Annual report shows systemic racism continues to bring down Black people's quality of life

Urban League President Marc Morial says the index shows how hard it is to overcome systemic racism that's made life harder in many ways for people of color.

www.pbs.org

Outcomes are not specifically indicative of systemic racism. It may be indicative of a number of other problems because there is always more than one thing happening. But a presumption that, for instance, there are fewer black doctors than Indian doctors is because of white supremacy is specious.

 

[rjs330]

Didn't I do that in post #2227?

No you didn't. You said "I thought you were arguing against systemic racism. If not then I apologize." That makes it sound like I suddenly was arguing that systemic racism exists.

That is NOT anywhere close to:

Admit I did not say racism does not exist and admit I did not say systemic racism exists.

Just admit you were wrong about it. I asked you to quote me and you didn't and couldn't. You blatantly made claims that were untrue. You did not misunderstand.

Just admit you were wrong. That's it. I will even give you a break on that. You don't even have to use the word "wrong".

Just say you were in error. That's it. But I suspect you won't admit it. You will come up.with some excuse or you will ignore it.

 

[rturner76]

Outcomes are not specifically indicative of systemic racism. It may be indicative of a number of other problems because there is always more than one thing happening. But a presumption that, for instance, there are fewer black doctors than Indian doctors is because of white supremacy is specious.

I'm thinking more of corporate America. There are very few black people in the board rooms.

 

[rturner76]

No you didn't. You said "I thought you were arguing against systemic racism. If not then I apologize." That makes it sound like I suddenly was arguing that systemic racism exists.

That is NOT anywhere close to:

Admit I did not say racism does not exist and admit I did not say systemic racism exists.

Just admit you were wrong about it. I asked you to quote me and you didn't and couldn't. You blatantly made claims that were untrue. You did not misunderstand.

Just admit you were wrong. That's it. I will even give you a break on that. You don't even have to use the word "wrong".

Just say you were in error. That's it. But I suspect you won't admit it. You will come up.with some excuse or you will ignore it.

I don't think you believe racism does not exist but your posts do seem to imply that systemic racism does not exist. I disagree.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm thinking more of corporate America. There are very few black people in the board rooms.

What are you proposing to resolve that? Have the government pass laws instituting promotion quotas for black people?

Are you so sure that there are that many black people who understand how the rules are being played by everyone?

Look at the basic numbers we start with: Black people, first, are only 12 percent of the population. In a fair society, there would still be very few black people in the board rooms...there just aren't going to be that many qualified black people go to around. That's the same reason every white person doesn't have a black friend...there aren't that many of us go to around.

Second, are black people proportionately working as hard and doing the right thing from the very beginning to be on track to advance to those positions? I can't guarantee that we are...and neither can you. The proportions make a difference, because.

I thought about this when I was active duty in the Air Force. In the Air Force, it's pretty clear (and valid) that to reach the top rungs of the service, a person has to be a pilot (preferably a fighter pilot). Young officers who don't go in as pilots are automatically eliminating themselves from the track to Chief of Staff...it's automatic and certain from day one.

So, I began conducting an informal survey. I would ask young black officers, "Why didn't you go to flight school?" They had a variety of different reasons, but they nearly all boiled down to it being their own choice of to avoid taking that extremely demanding route. They had made an eyes-open choice right out the gate never to be on track to Chief of Staff, and black officers do that in greater proportion to their numbers than white officers.

 

[rturner76]

Are you so sure that there are that many black people who understand how the rules are being played by everyone?

They probably don't and that's part of the problem.

So, I began conducting an informal survey. I would ask young black officers, "Why didn't you go to flight school?" They had a variety of different reasons, but they nearly all boiled down to it being their own choice of to avoid taking that extremely demanding route. They had made an eyes-open choice right out the gate never to be on track to Chief of Staff, and black officers do that in greater proportion to their numbers than white officers.

Could it be because white officers have more opportunities to thrive?

 

[Ken-1122]

It's true that black people as a group do not hold much power. Comparing identity groups, groups that flex their power as self-identified groups in society, black people have virtually no power.

I think black people as a group have a lot of power. Why do you think this entire country was turned upside down when cops put their knee on the neck of a black man; killing him, even though the exact same thing happened to multiple white people without anybody noticing or caring? Why do you think cities burned over the death of black men like Eric Garner, Michael Brown or Tamir Rice, even though far more white men are killed by the police the same way but nobody notices? Don’t know about you, but I call that power.
Even though they have the numbers to have power, they are too diverse of thought to utilize such power. Think about it:

*How many white people love Trump? (half of em)
*How many white people hate Trump? (the other half)
*How many are pro-cop, law and order types? How many are anti-police anarchist?
*How many far right? How many far left?

Now ask yourself those questions concerning black folk. In order to have a power as a race, they would have to agree on the same issues; white people are too diverse when it comes to social issues to have power as a race. If white people had a social outlook like black people; voting for the same political party, mostly in agreement concerning the same issues; etc. they would have such power; but they don’t. Their political and social views are too spread out all over the place to get anything done as a race.

 

[Ken-1122]

I think you are wrong Again 25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

While Black people have made economic and health gains, they’ve slipped farther behind white people in education, social justice and civic engagement since this index was launched in 2005. A compendium of average outcomes by race in many aspects of life, it shows just how hard it is for people of color to overcome systemic racism, the civil rights organization says.

Annual report shows systemic racism continues to bring down Black people's quality of life

Urban League President Marc Morial says the index shows how hard it is to overcome systemic racism that's made life harder in many ways for people of color.

www.pbs.org

Inequality of outcomes are not examples of systemic racism; even though there is no shortage of people writing articles claiming that it is.

 

[Pommer]

I think black people as a group have a lot of power. Why do you think this entire country was turned upside down when cops put their knee on the neck of a black man; killing him, even though the exact same thing happened to multiple white people without anybody noticing or caring?

Maybe if us white folk were better at sensing injustices and protesting, we wouldn’t have to rely on black folk to do the consciousness-raising for us?