Why do churches not embrace both morality and compassion?

[ValorWoman4Jesus]

After years and years of searching for just the right church, my husband and I had found a church a little over a year ago, that has been there for us in our times of need. I have befriended a number of the members of this church on FaceBook. I have been on FaceBook for 5 1/2 years. Someone I knew from another Christian forum over 10 years ago became my friend on FaceBook.

The members of the latest church we are a member of have been so good to us, compared with those of other churches in our area. They have especially been wonderful to our 5 year old autistic son Joshua. There is a sweet senior citizen at our church who dubs herself as the church grandma. She is one of the members from the church I friended on FaceBook.

After a while, my friend whom I met online and have spoken to over the phone and prayed with, sent me messages warning me about the sweet senor citizen church member's pro LGBT paraphernalia on her FaceBook page. My friend has the gift of discernment, and I trusted what she said to be true. I checked her FaceBook page and saw it for myself. I felt the Lord impress upon me to defriend her on FaceBook. It is not a decision I take lightly, since I am fiercely loyal to people who are good friends to me. The woman finally asked me why I defriended her on FaceBook. I explained to her that she is living in sin, and is pro-gay as she admitted to me and my other Christian FaceBook friend.

She then turned against me (a risk I was willing to take to take a stand for Christ) and told me how terrible I was for even considering that she might not be for Christ. She used her man made role to justify her position. She is a deacon in our church. This saddens me, for I long to be a peacemaker who unites the two sides of the Christian divide between morality and compassion. The last thing I want to be is someone who sows discord in the church like Proverbs 6:19 speaks of. This is really a private matter between me and this deacon. Yet it also says in 1 Timothy 5:20 it states: But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. More than anything I care about what is just, good and right including love and compassion. I have not yet told anyone else in my church about this.

I pray that she does not turn our church against us. It would be so amiss for this church to turn against us for taking such a stand for Christ and morality.

This will be an acid test to see what the true agenda of this church is. Are they serving the Baptist church agenda, or the cause of Christ? Are they going to defend their beloved deacon who has been faithful to them for years, or are they going to care about the values of Christ more, and confront her and not oppose us? I have already invited God in this situation.

I am tired of churches being moral at the expense of compassion or being compassionate at the expense of morality. There is no reason for any church to not adhere to both of these virtues anywhere! What matters most to me, and what I embrace most of all is the Lord's greatest commandment, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself. Luke 10:27. Being a true follower of Christ and obeying all of scripture hinges on these two commandments.

 

[hedrick]

She then turned against me (a risk I was willing to take to take a stand for Christ) and told me how terrible I was for even considering that she might not be for Christ. She used her man made role to justify her position. She is a deacon in our church. This saddens me, for I long to be a peacemaker who unites the two sides of the Christian divide between morality and compassion. The last thing I want to be is someone who sows discord in the church like Proverbs 6:19 speaks of.

Please be realistic about what you’re doing. You’ve decided to make an issue. I understand that you feel you have to do it, and I respect that. But you can’t reject someone and then complain that they have turned against you. That's unfair to the other person and will make it unnecessarily hard to reconcile. You are trying to create discord. Sometimes that’s necessary. Fine. But you can’t claim to be a peacemaker while making conflict. Much better simply admit that you think it’s worth having a fight.

I pray that the church you belong to knows better than to take you up on it. That's what they will do if they actually do want to bridge the divide.

 

[DimEyesOpenHeart]

Greetings and peace to you in Jesus' name.

What a sad situation! I'm sorry that it's been difficult for you. How I would that you'd have sought the Deacon out in private and in person first regarding her uncomfortable posts and explained sooner before defriending.
I hope you can reach reconciliation soon.
I know how difficult it is to find a like minded church and friends within it.
Supporting individuals who struggle with same sex attraction IS different from actually living in sin by acting on those impulses and as Christians we are called to love and support one another.
I am surprised to hear of a female Deacon though!

 

[hedrick]

I just looked at the OP's recent posts. I see that she has a specific problem in dealing with people. I agree with DimEyesOpenHeart that it's best to talk with people in private. However in the case of the OP, it might be better to be accompanied by someone who knows her, to help facilitate communication and avoid misunderstanding

I'd suggest that if the OP wants to develop peacemaking, it might be best to avoid confronting people for a while, even those that she thinks are seriously wrong. After she gets more experience with peacemaking, she might be in a better position to do that. In most churches (and in the NT) the primary responsibility for dealing with errors falls on the church leaders.

 

[Ken Rank]

But you can’t claim to be a peacemaker while making conflict.

Agreed to a point... there are times when conflict is necessary. However, God hates strife between brethren (Prov. 6:16-19) and so there is a balance that is not often observed. The OP's contention is, for now at least, an internal matter. The authority of THAT congregation are the only people with the authority to deal with issues in THAT congregation. When they reach an impasse or when their decisions go beyond the borders of that congregation and begin to cause others in the body at large to stumble... THEN it becomes a public (body wide) issue. But as you said in another post, that issue and any other is a "church leader" issue. THEY have been ordained to lead that body and THEY will be judged for how they deal with things like this. We have to trust God in the process He set up, or else are we even walking in faith?

 

[Albion]

Agreed to a point... there are times when conflict is necessary. However, God hates strife between brethren (Prov. 6:16-19) and so there is a balance that is not often observed. The OP's contention is, for now at least, an internal matter. The authority of THAT congregation are the only people with the authority to deal with issues in THAT congregation. When they reach an impasse or when their decisions go beyond the borders of that congregation and begin to cause others in the body at large to stumble... THEN it becomes a public (body wide) issue. But as you said in another post, that issue and any other is a "church leader" issue. THEY have been ordained to lead that body and THEY will be judged for how they deal with things like this. We have to trust God in the process He set up, or else are we even walking in faith?

I am inclined to agree when you say, "to a point." It would be wrong to see this as the OP writer's "fault."

The church apparently has a position on homosexual sexual activity that any member should be able to expect will be upheld. And I don't see the writer as having made the issue of this matter that some have said she did.

What we know is that she REPLIED to the deaconess when asked about the online "defriending." She opened herself up to that, of course, but it's not as though she took the initiative to condemn the deaconess in private or in public.

It was the deaconess who seems to have chosen to inflame the situation, as gay activists are so often eager to do. "Valor Woman" didn't call the deaconess a non-Christian, if we are to believe the account given us. She said the defriending was because the deaconess was living in sin. Yet the deaconess chose to counterattack on the false premise that she had been accused of not being a believer in Christ!

So what we are facing appears to be just what so many others are grieved about in their own churches--the churches stand for one thing until it becomes convenient to look the other way when a prominent member of the congregation flouts the standards.

I sympathize with anyone caught in this kind of situation, but there's no easy way to deal with it. The only possible "solution" would seem to be to approach the deaconess with a mind to effecting some truce. Doing that would be difficult to pull off, however, and it would do nothing to address what appears to me to be the bigger issue with "Valor Woman," which is how to see the Church's integrity, or lack of it, hereafter.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

First of all, your friend does not have the "gift of discernment", she had evidence. Second, what she told you was GOSSIP. Third of all, if this "church grandma" was so good to your son, what do you care what other causes she supports? You made a judgement call that you shouldn't have made. What she believes about LBGT people is between her and God, not her and you.

 

[JCFantasy23]

First of all, your friend does not have the "gift of discernment", she had evidence. Second, what she told you was GOSSIP. Third of all, if this "church grandma" was so good to your son, what do you care what other causes she supports? You made a judgement call that you shouldn't have made. What she believes about LBGT people is between her and God, not her and you.

I have to agree with this post. The woman was acting very sweet to you and your son - we could all find beliefs of friends we don't agree with if we look at their active facebook pages. I don't agree with all my friends political beliefs they state, or even another friend's Christian views sometimes. I have a Catholic best friend who believes in reincarnation that I don't agree with. And many Christian friends who believe in LGBT rights - they are some of the more vocal members on my facebook page about God with almost daily thoughts about Him, scripture verses, and active attendance in church. I'd certainly never defriend them for their views and interpretations on these issues.

 

[Albion]

I have to agree with this post. The woman was acting very sweet to you and your son

I find that to be irrelevant to the issue here. That she HAD BEEN sweet--and we aren't certain why that was the case--isn't the problem; it's how she changed and how to deal with that.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I find that to be irrelevant to the issue here. That she HAD BEEN sweet--and we aren't certain why that was the case--isn't the problem; it's how she changed and how to deal with that.

The OP said she acted offended and turned against her. I'm not sure how she turned against her, unless the OP means she got offended and acted unfriendly after that. I do hope there's no issues in the church over this personal matter, and of course that she doesn't try to 'turn the church against them', but I don't see from the information provided how she acted unusually yet, just that the OP hopes she doesn't.

 

[Albion]

The OP said she acted offended and turned against her.

Right. That's not overly specific information.

I'm not sure how she turned against her, unless the OP means she got offended and acted unfriendly after that. I do hope there's no issues in the church over this personal matter, and of course that she doesn't try to 'turn the church against them', but I don't see from the information provided how she acted unusually yet, just that the OP hopes she doesn't.

I see more information than that in the OP. She also said this:

....and told me how terrible I was for even considering that she might not be for Christ. She used her man made role to justify her position.

BTW, I took it that she had never insinuated that the deacon was "not for Christ" and so this is part of the reason she feels put on the defensive.

 

[hedrick]

We haven't seen the actual dialog, so this is turning into guesswork. Did the OP actually imply that her friend was not for Christ? We don't know.

 

[Albion]

Did the OP actually imply that her friend was not for Christ?

No.

 

[JCFantasy23]

....and told me how terrible I was for even considering that she might not be for Christ. She used her man made role to justify her position.

BTW, I took it that she had never insinuated that the deacon was "not for Christ" and so this is part of the reason she feels put on the defensive.

I see this as a normal reaction on behalf of the person she unfriended. The OP may not have meant to say 'she was not for Christ', but since unfriended her for her views and told her it's because she lives in sin (and so wants to disconnect their relationship), it would easily appear that way.

Hopefully the situation doesn't progress and they just can ignore each other at the church without getting other members involved.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I just looked at the OP's recent posts. I see that she has a specific problem in dealing with people. I agree with DimEyesOpenHeart that it's best to talk with people in private. However in the case of the OP, it might be better to be accompanied by someone who knows her, to help facilitate communication and avoid misunderstanding

I'd suggest that if the OP wants to develop peacemaking, it might be best to avoid confronting people for a while, even those that she thinks are seriously wrong. After she gets more experience with peacemaking, she might be in a better position to do that. In most churches (and in the NT) the primary responsibility for dealing with errors falls on the church leaders.

I agree. She should have talked to the other person personally. Especially if one is going to bring a charge against someone publicly. They should be sure that they know ALL the facts and have prayed about it.

This is not something someone takes on haphazzardly without prayer.

This is a sad situation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

First of all, your friend does not have the "gift of discernment", she had evidence. Second, what she told you was GOSSIP. Third of all, if this "church grandma" was so good to your son, what do you care what other causes she supports? You made a judgement call that you shouldn't have made. What she believes about LBGT people is between her and God, not her and you.

So, she SUPPORTS LBGT and is not a lesbian herself? The other lady just stepped in a big pile of poop. Christians can be so hurtful to each other. A Christian can hurt another Christian much more deeply usually than a non Christian.

Didn't she say that she values compassion?

 

[RedPonyDriver]

So, she SUPPORTS LBGT and is not a lesbian herself? The other lady just stepped in a big pile of poop. Christians can be so hurtful to each other. A Christian can hurt another Christian much more deeply usually than a non Christian.

Didn't she say that she values compassion?

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what is wrong with supporting LBGTQ rights? Why should someone be denied civil rights due to sexual orientation?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what is wrong with supporting LBGTQ rights? Why should someone be denied civil rights due to sexual orientation?

There is no sin there. We are to talk to another when there is overwhelming evidence of sin and implore them to stop and turn from their sin and repent, in private, mind you. If there is sin. No sin, it's a very slippery slope that should never have been slid down.

 

[Marius27]

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what is wrong with supporting LBGTQ rights? Why should someone be denied civil rights due to sexual orientation?

Because a subset of Christians need something to hate and gays are an easy target, so they butcher the Bible to use as justification for that hate to make themselves feel better. If Christians truly knew how much misery and suffering they cause LGBT people they would be down on their hands and knees begging God for forgiveness. Sadly their pride prevents it. His wrath will come upon them eventually, and not soon enough imo.

 

[hedrick]

I understand Marius27’s frustration. But it’s not fair to attribute conservative exegesis to a need to hate something. I know people on both ends. Both groups are committed Christians, who care about people. Conservatives have grown up in a culture that is convinced that homosexuality is an abomination. You can’t expect them to change these kinds of deep-seated attitudes quickly or easily. Yes, I think their use of “literal” interpretation of Scripture to back it up is unconvincing. The same approach has been used throughout history in ways that a few decades later people realize are ill-conceived. But the culture in which you grow up has a strong influence. If we don’t make allowances for that we’ll never be able to appreciate great minds from different cultures and historical periods.