Whose idea was God's worship?

[Taodeching]

I understand, you can't really give a real answer. Seems to be a thing with many Christians in this area, to read into a question instead of answer directly. Maybe someday some Christians will give straight real answers. Oh well go with God

 

[JohnClay]

.....How hard can it be for a Christian to give a real straight answer to the question "What does worship mean?" or a straight answer to any question. It appears quite difficult. All one has to do is start off with "This is what worship means to me...."

Your profile says you're a Christian yet you didn't answer Tinker Grey's question yourself.... (which you want Christians to answer)

 

[Taodeching]

Your profile says you're a Christian yet you didn't answer Tinker Grey's question yourself.... (which you want Christians to answer)

Your correct, I do not feel adequate at this moment and am watching to see what other Christians say. I must admit that the atheist have better answers and logical ideas than what I have observed. I am in between ideas at the moment.

If I were to give an answer I would say dictionary definition as it defines Worship as a noun which is a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual.

Definition of WORSHIP

 

[Carl Emerson]

To give special honour and respect to something or someone.

 

[Lion IRC]

It seems like the angels were expected to worship God and a third of them didn't want to so they were cast out of Heaven (then will eventually go to Hell).
In the OT and NT God says that humans must love God with all their heart, mind, and soul...

Does God "need" to be worshipped? It seems he is expecting it from the angels and people.... it seems to be his plan...

Take a look at the world around you.
Self-evidently, you don't have to worship God.

Here's a syllogism.
P. All powerful (omnipotent) beings can have whatever they need.
P. If an omnipotent being needed everyone to worship Him, everyone would.
P. Not everyone worships God.
Conclusion- therefore God doesn't need everyone to worship Him.

 

[JohnClay]

Take a look at the world around you.
Self-evidently, you don't have to worship God.

Here's a syllogism.
P. All powerful (omnipotent) beings can have whatever they need.
P. If an omnipotent being needed everyone to worship Him, everyone would.
P. Not everyone worships God.
Conclusion- therefore God doesn't need everyone to worship Him.

"God doesn't need everyone to worship Him"

Well I guess God is satisfied with two thirds of the angels and all of the saved humans worshipping him. Though it seems he is unhappy with the others since he is apparently sending a third of the angels and all of the unsaved to hell....

 

[Lion IRC]

You seem to be drifting away from your claim that God needs us to worship Him.
Since God is omnipotent He can have anything He wants.
Last time I checked, God doesn't force us to worship Him.
QED

 

[Ceallaigh]

The funny thing with worship is man worships different gods. It's not as though Yahweh alone receives it. Many times throughout the Old Testament the Jews forsook worshipping Yahweh in favor of worshipping Baal or Molech etc. So I wonder how much worshipping might be more of a human need or desire as opposed to God needing it (so to speak).

 

[JohnClay]

You seem to be drifting away from your claim that God needs us to worship Him.
Since God is omnipotent He can have anything He wants.
Last time I checked, God doesn't force us to worship Him.
QED

I wrote "Does God "need" to be worshipped?" i.e. does he need some people to worship him...
In the original post I also mentioned that a third of the angels didn't want to worship him....

 

[Ceallaigh]

I wrote "Does God "need" to be worshipped?" i.e. does he need some people to worship him...
In the original post I also mentioned that a third of the angels didn't want to worship him....

Like I said, the need of worshiping seems to fall more on humans, considering how many idols they've come up with to worship.

 

[JohnClay]

The funny thing with worship is man worships different gods. It's not as though Yahweh alone receives it. Many times throughout the Old Testament the Jews forsook worshipping Yahweh in favor of worshipping Baal or Molech etc. So I wonder how much worshipping might be more of a human need or desire as opposed to God needing it (so to speak).

Like I said, the need of worshiping seems to fall more on humans, considering how many idols they've come up with to worship.

Worship means "the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity"... but maybe part of the reason for this is to thank and encourage blessings... like having good crops... ancient people often thought that the gods could help with crops, etc....

 

[HitchSlap]

Take a look at the world around you.
Self-evidently, you don't have to worship God.

Here's a syllogism.
P. All powerful (omnipotent) beings can have whatever they need.
P. If an omnipotent being needed everyone to worship Him, everyone would.
P. Not everyone worships God.
Conclusion- therefore God doesn't need everyone to worship Him.

Syllogisms are fun. Here's mine:

P. Omnipotent beings require nothing.
P. If an omnipotent being requires worship, they wouldn't be omnipotent.
P. Some humans worship god.
C. God isn't omnipotent.

 

[Lion IRC]

P. Omnipotent beings require nothing.
No. Omnipotent being's can have anything they require.

P. If an omnipotent being requires worship, they wouldn't be omnipotent.
No. If a supposedly omnipotent being couldn't have what they require, then they wouldn't be truly omnipotent.

P. Some humans worship god.
Agreed.

C. God isn't omnipotent.
This doesn't follow necessarily from any combination of the premises you've presented AFAICT. But you have validated my syllogism's contention that God doesn't need, rely, or depend upon our worship.

 

[Lion IRC]

...Christians around these parts are masters of deflection and not dealing with the question as asked

Oh dear. I'm sorry you think that.
I shall, and always do, endeavour to give an answer to unbelievers' questions.

What does worship mean?

If I worship a king, ala the middle ages, what am I doing?

"...oh come let us adore Him."

What does "worship" mean?
This isn't so much an apologetics question but a thesaurus word search. So...

Old English weorthscipe ‘worthiness, acknowledgement of worth’
Sense of "reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being" is first recorded c. 1300. ... 1200, from worship (n.)

Asked/Answered.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Oh dear. I'm sorry you think that.
I shall, and always do, endeavour to give an answer to unbelievers' questions.



"...oh come let us adore Him."

What does "worship" mean?
This isn't so much an apologetics question but a thesaurus word search. So...

Old English weorthscipe ‘worthiness, acknowledgement of worth’
Sense of "reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being" is first recorded c. 1300. ... 1200, from worship (n.)

Asked/Answered.

How does one pay reverence? (Oh, generic earthly kings were worshiped too.)

 

[cloudyday2]

How does one pay reverence? (Oh, generic earthly kings were worshiped too.)

When I was in the Eastern Orthodox Church there was a distinction made between veneration and worship.

When I kissed the icon of saint it was "veneration".
When I kissed the icon of Jesus it was "worship".

When I prayed to a saint it was directed to an "intercessor".
When I prayed to Jesus it was directed to God.

Your example with earthly kings is another:

When people knelt down to a king it was a sign of submission to authority or possibly veneration.
When people knelt down to a cross it was worship.

As people define these things in practice there is no way to worship anything except for God, because the definition of worship assumes the object is God. If the same activity is directed at something other than God then it isn't worship.

 

[Tinker Grey]

When I was in the Eastern Orthodox Church there was a distinction made between veneration and worship.

When I kissed the icon of saint it was "veneration".
When I kissed the icon of Jesus it was "worship".

When I prayed to a saint it was directed to an "intercessor".
When I prayed to Jesus it was directed to God.

Your example with earthly kings is another:

When people knelt down to a king it was a sign of submission to authority or possibly veneration.
When people knelt down to a cross it was worship.

As people define these things in practice there is no way to worship anything except for God, because the definition of worship assumes the object is God. If the same activity is directed at something other than God then it isn't worship.

So what, I wonder, do Christians imagine that God wants? The protestants here are not likely to be interested in kissing icons. If God were to exist, would he/she/it want me to kneel? How many times a day constitutes worship? Is Sunday sufficient?

All that aside, I think you are right. It's submission or at least an indication of submission. Again, though, what is that Christians imagine that this entails. Talking to the top of your head saying words that indicate you are prepared to obey?

Then when believers indicate that heaven will be perpetual worship, what do they imagine this will be? An eternal of repeating the words, "I suck and you are great. I will obey you if we ever get to do anything except repeat these words." Yes, not all Christians imagine heaven this way. But, you have to wonder why anyone find this life, let alone an eternal life, of submission is appealing.

 

[cloudyday2]

So what, I wonder, do Christians imagine that God wants? The protestants here are not likely to be interested in kissing icons. If God were to exist, would he/she/it want me to kneel? How many times a day constitutes worship? Is Sunday sufficient?

All that aside, I think you are right. It's submission or at least an indication of submission. Again, though, what is that Christians imagine that this entails. Talking to the top of your head saying words that indicate you are prepared to obey?

Then when believers indicate that heaven will be perpetual worship, what do they imagine this will be? An eternal of repeating the words, "I suck and you are great. I will obey you if we ever get to do anything except repeat these words." Yes, not all Christians imagine heaven this way. But, you have to wonder why anyone find this life, let alone an eternal life, of submission is appealing.

I always liked this verse Psalm 51:16-17 KJV:

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

Many of the near death experience reports involve reviewing your life and becoming broken and contrite as a result.

In heaven I imagine it might be like an unstained and primordial version of Earth with God's ubiquitous presence creating an added feeling of wonderment. We'll all be standing around hypnotized by the beauty for the first thousand years or so. LOL

 

[Carl Emerson]

So what, I wonder, do Christians imagine that God wants? The protestants here are not likely to be interested in kissing icons. If God were to exist, would he/she/it want me to kneel? How many times a day constitutes worship? Is Sunday sufficient?

All that aside, I think you are right. It's submission or at least an indication of submission. Again, though, what is that Christians imagine that this entails. Talking to the top of your head saying words that indicate you are prepared to obey?

Then when believers indicate that heaven will be perpetual worship, what do they imagine this will be? An eternal of repeating the words, "I suck and you are great. I will obey you if we ever get to do anything except repeat these words." Yes, not all Christians imagine heaven this way. But, you have to wonder why anyone find this life, let alone an eternal life, of submission is appealing.

If you knew Him you would never ask such a question.

The rational and the wholly other never kiss.

 

[Lion IRC]

How does one pay reverence? (Oh, generic earthly kings were worshiped too.)

Well, if you're an impoverished little drummer boy with no gold or frankincense or myrrh to lay before the King, you might play your drum for Him. You could play your best for Him and see the loving smile of appreciation.

Another way to show reverence would be...

Matthew 25:40 is a good insight into how we can honour The King.