Virginia school board votes to restore Confederate names to two schools

[Tuur]

It is absolutely clear that the motivation to name schools after such traitors is to use memory of the confederacy to emphasize the ideology of white supremacy.

Ah, no. The only clear example of that that I know of is that a private school founded as a response to segregation. If you wish to argue that it was for white supremacy, then look for institutions named after Brown vs Board of Education. Prior to that is the concept of hero and reconciliation. The latter goes as far back as Grant's troops honoring Lee's after the surrender at Appomattox. Lee, who has been reviled, asked for reconciliation rather than continued guerilla action. And guess who said the following:

"We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right."

That was N.B. Forrest. Yes, that Forrest, at a gathering of a black organization in Memphis after the Civil War. Revile him for Fort Pillow and leadership in the KKK. Remember that before he died he supported reconciliation and sought to disband the KKK. And remember than when it first looked like Spain and the US would come to blows, Forrest tendered his services to none other than your avatar. Your avatar sent a rather nice letter declining his services due to reduced tensions. Having read a letter he sent to a man in Augusta, Georgia, who asked why their city was spared during the March to the Sea, that was unusual.

When it did come to war with Spain, the US government had no problem accepting the services of former Confederate officers. Keep in mind that this was in the same army that had fought these same men not ten years earlier. They had no qualms at accepting their service.

What then: If men who had tried to kill each other not one decade before could find reconciliation, who are we, generations removed, to say different? And if we revile these men for being Confederates, do we also revile their call for reconciliation?

To really get a sense of what was going on, you need to go from Tennessee into Georgia. Near I-75 there's a Union memorial that no one seemed to have minded because it was in the memory of someone's father or brother or husband or son, and that's the way the North viewed Southern memorials, at least then. And while I doubt you'd find a Robert the Bruce school in London, wouldn't be shocked to find one in Scotland.

I don't expect any of this to change anyone's opinion one whit, but it's something that must be said, even though it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Ah, no. The only clear example of that that I know of is that a private school founded as a response to segregation. If you wish to argue that it was for white supremacy, then look for institutions named after Brown vs Board of Education.

That is, in fact, when most schools that are named after Confederates were named as such. Including the one in the OP.

When it did come to war with Spain, the US government had no problem accepting the services of former Confederate officers. Keep in mind that this was in the same army that had fought these same men not ten years earlier. They had no qualms at accepting their service.

What then: If men who had tried to kill each other not one decade before could find reconciliation, who are we, generations removed, to say different? And if we revile these men for being Confederates, do we also revile their call for reconciliation?

As I stated in a previous comment, forgiveness and reconciliation does not require naming schools after people or building monuments to them.

To really get a sense of what was going on, you need to go from Tennessee into Georgia. Near I-75 there's a Union memorial that no one seemed to have minded because it was in the memory of someone's father or brother or husband or son, and that's the way the North viewed Southern memorials, at least then.

While there have been some attempts by overzealous activists to remove memorials to Confederate soldiers, cooler heads have generally prevailed in those cases. I live about an hour away from Gettysburg, and there are hundreds of memorials to Confederate units there, with firm statements from the Park Service that they will remain. The monuments being removed are generally statues of prominent Confederate figures in places of honor and/or significance unrelated to the men in question.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ah, no. The only clear example of that that I know of is that a private school founded as a response to segregation.

It does not surprise me at all that a segregation academy was so named.

If you wish to argue that it was for white supremacy, then look for institutions named after Brown vs Board of Education. Prior to that is the concept of hero and reconciliation. The latter goes as far back as Grant's troops honoring Lee's after the surrender at Appomattox. Lee, who has been reviled, asked for reconciliation rather than continued guerilla action. And guess who said the following:

The memorialization of confederates for current political purposes goes back to the era of the second klan (1920s) at least.

 

[Tuur]

The memorialization of confederates for current political purposes goes back to the era of the second klan (1920s) at least.

And your avatar?

 

[Hans Blaster]

And your avatar?

I march with Sherman.

 

[returntosender]

Our history should never be changed, That's why they call it history.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nearly four years ago, the Shenandoah County School Board ... moved to rename Stonewall Jackson High School and Ashby Lee Elementary School. The schools had been named after Confederate Gens. Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, Robert E. Lee and Turner Ashby.

That 2020 move was part of a resolution condemning racism and affirming the district’s “commitment to an inclusive school environment,” according to school board documents.

The schools have been called Mountain View High School and Honey Run Elementary School since July 2021, according to board documents.

But the composition of the school board is different now than it was during the 2020 decision – all six seats are held by different people.

The 5-1 vote came after hours of public comment during a meeting that began Thursday evening from people speaking on both sides of the issue. Vice Chairman Kyle L. Gutshall was the sole opposing vote.

“I ask that when you cast your vote, you remember that Stonewall Jackson and others fighting on the side of the Confederacy in this area were intent on protecting the land, the buildings and the lives of those under attack,” said a woman urging the board to restore the Confederate names. “Preservation is the focus of those wishing to restore the names.”

Sarah Kohrs, a mother of two students attending schools in the district, is among several parents and residents who said ahead of the vote that they were opposed to restoring the Confederacy-tied names and were frustrated it was being considered.

“It’s very frustrating to know that here we are four years after that, and we still have a small portion of the community that just refuses to move on,” Kohrs told CNN.

I don’t think the names should’ve ever been changed in the first place, they are both historical American figures. Both of these men earned their legacy in the Mexican American war before the Civil war. I mean how many presidents did we have before Lincoln who didn’t stop slavery and have schools named after them. Just because these schools were named after brave men who fought for their country doesn’t mean that the school promotes racism and just because the Union Generals fought to free the slaves doesn’t mean that they weren’t racists. Racism was still predominant in the entire US all the way into the 1970s.

 

[Desk trauma]

don’t think the names should’ve ever been changed in the first place, they are both historical American figures. Both of these men earned their legacy in the Mexican American war before the Civil war.

They threw that legacy away when they took up arms against the United States.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I don’t think the names should’ve ever been changed in the first place, they are both historical American figures. Both of these men earned their legacy in the Mexican American war before the Civil war.

Under this logic, we should have schools and monuments to Benedict Arnold for his efforts in leading the United States to a victory over the British in the Battle of Saratoga.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Under this logic, we should have schools and monuments to Benedict Arnold for his efforts in leading the United States to a victory over the British in the Battle of Saratoga.

We did name something after Benedict Arnold in the US -- betrayal. His name is a byword for betrayal.

 

[Tuur]

I march with Sherman.

That's a broad spectrum, from Union soldiers who cried at fighting boys and old men at Griswoldville to those who trashed Christ Church, St Simons.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That's a broad spectrum, from Union soldiers who cried at fighting boys and old men at Griswoldville to those who trashed Christ Church, St Simons.

Visited Columbia, had a nice time

Yours,

__sherm

 

[GoldenBoy89]

History is hidden if we don’t name schools after those involved? Best name some schools in Oklahoma City after McVeigh otherwise that’s being hidden.

Can’t wait to see all the schools in Israel named after Hamas leaders/generals. Otherwise it’s like this conflict they’re in today isn’t even happening.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

A few examples from the internet:

5th generation warfare is a concept that refers to a type of warfare that is characterized by the use of non-kinetic means to achieve strategic objectives. It is often described as a “war of perceptions” or a “battle of ideas,” and it involves the use of various forms of psychological warfare, propaganda, and disinformation to influence the thoughts and actions of an adversary.

Here are some examples of 5th generation warfare:

The Arab Spring: The Arab Spring was a series of protests and uprisings that swept across the Middle East and North Africa in 2010-2012. It was characterized by the use of social media and other forms of digital communication to organize and mobilize protests, and it was often described as a form of 5th generation warfare.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine: The Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014 was a 5th generation warfare operation that involved the use of cyber warfare, propaganda, and disinformation to achieve strategic objectives.

The Syrian Civil War: The Syrian Civil War was a 5th generation warfare operation that involved the use of various forms of psychological warfare, including propaganda, disinformation, and social media manipulation, to influence the thoughts and actions of the Syrian people and to undermine the government of Bashar al-Assad.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a long-standing and complex conflict that has involved various forms of 5th generation warfare, including the use of propaganda, disinformation, and social media manipulation to influence public opinion and to achieve strategic objectives.

The COVID-19 pandemic: The COVID-19 pandemic was a global health crisis that was characterized by the use of 5th generation warfare tactics, including the use of propaganda, disinformation, and social media manipulation to influence public opinion and to shape the global response to the pandemic.

It’s worth noting that 5th generation warfare is a relatively new concept, and it is still evolving. As such, there is ongoing debate among military strategists and scholars about the nature and characteristics of 5th generation warfare, and about its implications for the conduct of war and the maintenance of national security.
AI-generated answer. Please verify critical facts. Learn more
Context

Just sounds like good old fashioned warfare to me.

War, propaganda and the mass manipulation of a people by their feelings and fears have always gone perfectly together.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Do you consider that the American revolution of 1776 was carried out by traitors?

Yes, they were traitors to the crown. That was the whole point of the war.

And for you too, is the USA a Hotel Cali. that
you can join voluntarily but you get shot for
trying to leave?

Anyone can leave. They just can’t take the states with them. That belongs to the United States.

It’s right there in the name.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Just as I thought, justifying a racist statement. Hypocrites.

Nobody has justified that. Biden was just an idiot trying to be funny on a black podcast show and get a quick laugh out of the host. It didn’t land and we also didn’t honor the tagline by naming a school after it or building a statue to Biden with the phrase on a plaque.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

No It's not about disagreeing with me. The whole conversation is about our racist ancestors and the outrage because of it. When a person in the 21st century makes a racist comment there is no outrage. That is being a hypocrite.

Plenty of people were upset with Biden for saying it at the time but I think in the context of all the protests going on that summer over that exact issue of racial justice, plus a deadly, spreading pandemic, a stupid tone deaf joke on a morning podcast by a candidate that didn’t land was hardly a blip on any radar.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

You guys forfeited the right to complain or be morally righteous about past war individuals when you still have statues of Lenin in America spread across the lands. Compared to Jackson or Lee, Lenin's list of crimes make your confederates look like a schoolyard bully. So I'm going to use your exact wordings for the Lenin statues you guys have there. There's no cultural or historical relevance to it - at least nothing worth celebrating.

Remind me of the war Lenin waged against the United States in an effort to preserve a racist institution within the United States.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Neither did it stop Che Guevara from being idolized by certain political faction in America. In fact you can easily find Che Guevara merchandise sold openly in America.

Che Guevara also never fought any war against the U.S. nor tried to maintain or defend the institution of slavery within the country. You get that this isn’t about outlawing t-shirts and random private statues of generally bad people from history, right? It’s about specific people who took part in specific events related to American history, society and culture that we have to continue to live with today.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The end is still the same - moral hypocrisy.

Confederates who are Americans equal bad and underserving of any remembrance but leaders of dangerous ideology who are not Americans equal to remembrance and admiration.

American Civil War (localized damage) - 1861 less recent. Some Americans: Let's not forget what these old timers did.

Communist Revolution (worldwide damage) - 1917 more recent. Also some Americans: Let's honor the founders, "intellectuals" and "fighters".

And this is not about private vs public for private expression of confederate symbols have long been under "righteous" scrutiny.

Explain all you can but as an outsider who like to read up on history, you're not convincing me there is a moral difference.

Respectfully, as an outsider, we don’t have to convince you of anything.