Trump attorney says presidents can’t be prosecuted for selling pardons or ordering murders

[DaisyDay]

You are being inaccurate. According to the Vanity Fair article you posted, this is what they said Trump posted on Truth social. Trump made the threat while accusing Milley of partnering with China to conspire against his presidency. “This is an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH!” the former president wrote of Milley in a Truth Social post.

You're not really helping his case

Now if you want to discuss the pros and cons of what Milley did when he was Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staffs during the last few weeks and months of Trump's presidency, then please start another thread. That would be an interesting discussion.

Go ahead.

 

[Vambram]

In times gone by clearly indicates to me, as well as it should to the vast majority of people, that he is talking about past history from several decades.... or more.... ago in American history.

 

[NxNW]

I guessed you missed the part where Pence and Pelosi were never actually under a real threat of real violence at all.

"We tried to kill them but missed" isn't much of a defense.

I guessed you missed the part in Trump's speech where he told them to peacefully and patriotically let their voices be heard.

And then worked behind the scenes to intensify the insurrection. Pence refused to ride in a Limo with Secret Service agents who were loyal to Trump.

 

[Vambram]

"We tried to kill them but missed" isn't much of a defense.

And then worked behind the scenes to intensify the insurrection. Pence refused to ride in a Limo with Secret Service agents who were loyal to Trump.

baloney

And no one tried to kill them.

 

[Bradskii]

I guessed you missed the part where Pence and Pelosi were never actually under a real threat of real violence at all.

From here: Pence Secret Service detail feared for their lives during Capitol riot

'The official said: “The members of the VP detail at this time were starting to fear for their own lives. There was a lot of yelling. There were a lot of very personal calls over the radio, so it was disturbing. I don’t like talking about it.

“There were calls to say goodbye to family members, so on and so forth … for whatever reason it was on the ground, the VP detail thought this was about to get very ugly.” '

And that's from a man inside the Capitol being attacked by fellow Americans. It's a statement that you'd expect from the last hours in the embassy in Saigon.

I think that you'd be more accurate in saying that those that were protecting them ensured that they weren't harmed. What do you really think might have happened if the mob had got through that last door? We're they just looking to have a quiet discussion about the pros and cons of the electoral college process? All sit on the floor in a circle, ask someone to say a prayer before the discussion started?

If you had been there as an elected representative, what would you have done? Wandered about trying to calm the mob? Or listen to those protecting you - some of whom were telling you that it was 'about to get very ugly' and that there were reports that some of the mob were armed.

I mean, for God's sake, man. Hundreds had broken into the Capitol and were breaking down the last door between them and elected officials. When are some of you guys going to confront reality?

 

[Vambram]

I am not defending at all what those protestors did on January 6th, 2021. They broke the law and they shouldn't have done so. However, if these Secret Service agents were actually and really experiencing real fear, then they didn't have enough experience and training to handle the situation. I have been in riot situations as a National Guardsman, and I was not afraid at all.

 

[NxNW]

I am not defending at all what those protestors did on January 6th, 2021. They broke the law and they shouldn't have done so. However, if these Secret Service agents were actually and really experiencing real fear, then they didn't have enough experience and training to handle the situation. I have been in riot situations as a National Guardsman, and I was not afraid at all.

That says more about you than it does about them.

 

[Vambram]

Nope.

 

[Pommer]

Nope.

Wait, your own personal anecdote says more about third parties than it does about your own personal character?

(EDIT: You both “agree” with the premise that the security details were in over their heads.
@NxNW was paying you a compliment, (maybe) that you took the time to “serve” and got training that ordinary “government security details” never get near. That says a great deal about you. Take it positively.)

 

[Vambram]

Wait, your own personal anecdote says more about third parties than it does about your own personal character?

(EDIT: You both “agree” with the premise that the security details were in over their heads.
@NxNW was paying you a compliment, (maybe) that you took the time to “serve” and got training that ordinary “government security details” never get near. That says a great deal about you. Take it positively.)

Good point, my friend. I should have taken that as a positive compliment. Thank you.

 

[NxNW]

Good point, my friend. I should have taken that as a positive compliment. Thank you.

It was meant as a criticism, because a mere Guardsman has no business evaluating the Secret Service.

 

[Pommer]

It was meant as a criticism, because a mere Guardsman has no business evaluating the Secret Service.

No wonder diplomacy is such a tough racket!

 

[Vambram]

It was meant as a criticism, because a mere Guardsman has no business evaluating the Secret Service.

Isn't it reasonable to believe that highly trained Secret Service agents shouldn't feel fear as easily as those men appear to have done so?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Isn't it reasonable to believe that highly trained Secret Service agents shouldn't feel fear as easily as those men appear to have done so?

perhaps you are underestimating the threat of the crowd. Have you considered that possibility?

 

[Vambram]

perhaps you are underestimating the threat of the crowd. Have you considered that possibility?

It is true that some in the crowd that went into the capitol building could have been dangerous. It is also true that the vast majority of the protestors in the building did not do absolutely any physical violence towards anyone at all. Trained Secret Service agents on the Vice President's detail should not have given into fear so easily as it appears that they did.

 

[7thKeeper]

I am not defending at all what those protestors did on January 6th, 2021. They broke the law and they shouldn't have done so. However, if these Secret Service agents were actually and really experiencing real fear, then they didn't have enough experience and training to handle the situation. I have been in riot situations as a National Guardsman, and I was not afraid at all.

Apples to oranges case most likely. When you were in a riot situation, were you equipped for a riot situation? Were you with other guardsmen? More than one? Was there a general plan in place for dealing with the situation? In general, did you go into it prepared? These all alter the two situations completely.

 

[Pommer]

It is true that some in the crowd that went into the capitol building could have been dangerous. It is also true that the vast majority of the protestors in the building did not do absolutely any physical violence towards anyone at all. Trained Secret Service agents on the Vice President's detail should not have given into fear so easily as it appears that they did.

They’re trained to keep their charge safe from attack, but the attacks they’re trained for are “a guy or two with guns”, not a mob of thousands blocking all of the exits, (maybe)?

 

[Vambram]

They’re trained to keep their charge safe from attack, but the attacks they’re trained for are “a guy or two with guns”, not a mob of thousands blocking all of the exits, (maybe)?

That is a reasonable explanation.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It is true that some in the crowd that went into the capitol building could have been dangerous. It is also true that the vast majority of the protestors in the building did not do absolutely any physical violence towards anyone at all. Trained Secret Service agents on the Vice President's detail should not have given into fear so easily as it appears that they did.

You can't fight off an angry mob with a handgun in a crowded space. I'm sure the USSS training includes determinations for when the protectee needs to be removed from a crowd situation and tactics to do so.

 

[Vambram]

The "angry mob" never got close to Vice President Pence or Nancy Pelosi, or any of the rest of the members of the Senate and Congress. If I am incorrect, then prove me wrong.