LDS The LDS savior doesn't exist

[Ran77]

I believe the bible. And I believe in JS. Huh?

That's exactly what came to my mind as well. Sweet!

 

[mmksparbud]

For us there is one God, the Father:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 6)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

We worship both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, nor is it wrong to worship both of them. God the Father sent His Son to be the Redeemer of those who obey His Son:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:7 - 9)

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Therefore we believe in the God of the Bible.

Our God the Father has no grandfathers, nor was He ever human. And He has no wives nor does He produce "spirit children" with them.

 

[Rescued One]

Most christians believe in a God that did not arise from the dead, for they follow the pagan greek doctrines that life after death is simply a endless existance as a ghost/Spirit, Hence they claim that Jesus after he arose from the dead arose as a Spirit, that he ascended to heaven as a spirit and presides in heaven as a spirit, hence they are denieing the literal ressurection of our Lord Jesus.

You must admit that you don't know most Christians and that all Christians at this site believe in the resurrection.

John 2
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[He is the way]

If you believed the God of the Bible, you'd reject your false prophets.

You can copy and paste your pet Bible verses till the cows come home, but you don't believe and follow the doctrines of the Bible.

I do reject the teachings of false prophets such as that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are of one substance. There are other man made fantasies such as once saved always saved. You may not agree with the Bible verses that I post even though they describe the true nature of God which is the God of the Bible that I believe in. However I know that eventually we will have spiritual resurrected bodies similar to Christ's resurrected body:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:40 - 58)

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[He is the way]

Our God the Father has no grandfathers, nor was He ever human. And He has no wives nor does He produce "spirit children" with them.

How can He relate to us? Jesus Christ had a body of flesh and now has a resurrected spiritual body like we will have. Where is your proof that the Father does not have a spiritual resurrected body like His Son?

 

[mmksparbud]

How can He relate to us? Jesus Christ had a body of flesh and now has a resurrected spiritual body like we will have. Where is your proof that the Father does not have a spiritual resurrected body like His Son?

Because the Father never died and therefore was never resurrected! That the Father was a man that died for the sins of some other planet is a lie straight from hell!

 

[He is the way]

Because the Father never died and therefore was never resurrected! That the Father was a man that died for the sins of some other planet is a lie straight from hell!

That is not proof, Jesus is also immortal, and so are we:

(New Testament | John 11:26)

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:51 - 53)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is not proof, Jesus is also immortal, and so are we:

(New Testament | John 11:26)

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:51 - 53)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Jesus is immortal---we are given immortality. We are not immortal at birth, there is no biblical reference to an immortal soul. Comes from Greek.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Eternal life is a gift from God to saved.

Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[He is the way]

Jesus is immortal---we are given immortality. We are not immortal at birth, there is no biblical reference to an immortal soul. Comes from Greek.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Eternal life is a gift from God to saved.

Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Yes Jesus is the only one who can give the gift of immortality or eternal life with Him and the Father:

(New Testament | 2 Timothy 1:7 - 10)

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Christ is the firstborn of the Father:

(New Testament | Colossians 1:14 - 15)

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

 

[Rescued One]

How can He relate to us? Jesus Christ had a body of flesh and now has a resurrected spiritual body like we will have. Where is your proof that the Father does not have a spiritual resurrected body like His Son?

Our God is omniscient and omnipotent. He speaks to us through the Holy Bible and Holy Spirit. He created mankind. He gave His Son for the sheep. He answers prayer. He heals. He guides. Not everyone knows Him, but His sheep do. He knows His sheep.

Where is your proof that non-believers are His children? Will they be with Him in the Highest level of the Celestial Kingdom? Where is your proof that the Book of Mormon isn't fiction? Where is your proof that Brighan Young was a legitimate prophet of God? etc., etc., etc.

 

[He is the way]

Our God is omniscient and omnipotent. He speaks to us through the Holy Bible and Holy Spirit. He created mankind. He gave His Son for the sheep. He answers prayer. He heals. He guides. Not everyone knows Him, but His sheep do. He knows His sheep.

Where is your proof that non-believers are His children? Will they be with Him in the Highest level of the Celestial Kingdom? Where is your proof that the Book of Mormon isn't fiction? Where is your proof that Brighan Young was a legitimate prophet of God? etc., etc., etc.

All of us are children of God the Father, but not everyone will go to the Celestial kingdom. Jesus is the keeper of that gate. Those who LOVE Him know Him:

(New Testament | 1 John 4:7 - 9)

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

We need to purify ourselves:

(New Testament | 1 John 3:3 - 11)

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

The Book of Mormon teaches many things pertaining to the kingdom of God. It was foretold by Isaiah.

 

[Rescued One]

All of us are children of God the Father, but not everyone will go to the Celestial kingdom.

Where is your PROOF?

You have NONE!

How can He relate to us? Jesus Christ had a body of flesh and now has a resurrected spiritual body like we will have. Where is your proof that the Father does not have a spiritual resurrected body like His Son?

If some never know Him, it is because they don't belong to Him and are not His sheep.
No one is going to the celestial kingdom that Joseph Smilth talked about because it doesn't exist.

The Father of Jesus is a Spirit, not an exalted man. Where is your proof that He earned godhood on another planet? He doesn't need a wife! There never was time that He was not God.

Psalm 90
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


Ephesians 1:5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

John 1:10-13
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

...
The Book of Mormon teaches many things pertaining to the kingdom of God. It was foretold by Isaiah.

Isaiah never taught Mormonism:

"The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of heaven on earth.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but it is at present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. During the Millennium, the kingdom of God will be both political and ecclesiastical."
Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven

 

[He is the way]

Where is your PROOF?

You have NONE!

I have the Bible:
(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

(New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 17)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

(New Testament | Matthew 7:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If some never know Him, it is because they don't belong to Him and are not His sheep.
No one is going to the celestial kingdom that Joseph Smilth talked about because it doesn't exist.

The Father of Jesus is a Spirit, not an exalted man. Where is your proof that He earned godhood on another planet? He doesn't need a wife! There never was time that He was not God.

Psalm 90
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


Ephesians 1:5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

John 1:10-13
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If they don't know Him it is because they do not keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 5)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Isaiah never taught Mormonism:

"The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of heaven on earth.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the kingdom of God on the earth, but it is at present limited to an ecclesiastical kingdom. During the Millennium, the kingdom of God will be both political and ecclesiastical."
Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

 

[Rescued One]

I have the Bible:

Having a Bible isn't proof. My husband sent one to my mother, but didn't read it. I sent one to my stepmother; she told me it's boring. God doesn't reveal truth to everyone who reads it. And your Book of Mormon mocks the Bible:


The Lord said to Nephi that in our day, the last days, many would say, “A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be anymore Bible.” To them, the Lord responded: “What do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the [Jewish prophets], and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto [them]?” (2 Ne. 29:3–4.)

The question seems to be, Do we appreciate what it means to have our own personal copy of the Bible?

The Latin Vulgate

The original languages of the Bible were Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. In A.D. 382, Pope Damascus persuaded Eusebius Sofronius Hieronymus (commonly known as St. Jerome), perhaps the most capable Bible scholar of the time, to translate the scriptures into Latin. This translation, called the Vulgate because it was in the “vulgar” or common tongue of the Latin people, was used in European countries where Catholicism was the dominant religion. Even with all his efforts and learning, however, Jerome could not avoid making some errors and misinterpretations. But of even greater importance, over the next thousand years more changes crept into the many versions of the Vulgate that were made.1

A Bible! A Bible!

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

If all people on earth are children of the most High, why do they need adoption? That was addressed ro God's chosen people. Even Jesus taught that not all Israel were His sheep!

(New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 17)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

That was spoken or written by a Christian to Christians.

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Many of us know that false teachers won't be glorified. Those who didn't receive the adoption don't go to heaven:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

(New Testament | Matthew 7:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

JESUS is the way, not false Christs and false prophets. Nathaniel and Paul were Christians but they weren't the way!

If they don't know Him it is because they do not keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 5)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Now you quote Isaiah and try to convince us that Isaiah was propheying about Joseph Smith, Jr., the Mormon prophet:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:11 - 14)

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

Joseph Smith paraphrased that about all non-Mormons:
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

Joseph Smith—History 1

 

[He is the way]

Having a Bible isn't proof. My husband sent one to my mother, but didn't read it. I sent one to my stepmother; she told me it's boring. God doesn't reveal truth to everyone who reads it. And your Book of Mormon mocks the Bible:


The Lord said to Nephi that in our day, the last days, many would say, “A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be anymore Bible.” To them, the Lord responded: “What do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the [Jewish prophets], and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto [them]?” (2 Ne. 29:3–4.)

The question seems to be, Do we appreciate what it means to have our own personal copy of the Bible?

The Latin Vulgate

The original languages of the Bible were Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. In A.D. 382, Pope Damascus persuaded Eusebius Sofronius Hieronymus (commonly known as St. Jerome), perhaps the most capable Bible scholar of the time, to translate the scriptures into Latin. This translation, called the Vulgate because it was in the “vulgar” or common tongue of the Latin people, was used in European countries where Catholicism was the dominant religion. Even with all his efforts and learning, however, Jerome could not avoid making some errors and misinterpretations. But of even greater importance, over the next thousand years more changes crept into the many versions of the Vulgate that were made.1

A Bible! A Bible!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1987/01/a-bible-a-bible?lang=eng

The Book of Mormon does NOT mock the Bible, rather it condemns those who believe that the Bible is the end of God's word.

If all people on earth are children of the most High, why do they need adoption? That was addressed ro God's chosen people. Even Jesus taught that not all Israel were His sheep!

We need to be adopted back because of the fall. Think of the story of the prodigal son.

That was spoken or written by a Christian to Christians.

It was written for everyone.

Many of us know that false teachers won't be glorified. Those who didn't receive the adoption don't go to heaven:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

JESUS is the way, not false Christs and false prophets. Nathaniel and Paul were Christians but they weren't the way!

Every person that has ever lives will be judged by their works:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Now you quote Isaiah and try to convince us that Isaiah was propheying about Joseph Smith, Jr., the Mormon prophet:

Joseph Smith paraphrased that about all non-Mormons:
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

Joseph Smith—History 1

Yes Isaiah did indeed prophesy about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.